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Markham Arena II

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04-30-2012, 11:43 PM
  #176
Killion
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... pretty much aub, the Barclays' Cup exchanging hands between maybe, MAYBE4 teams over the course of a decade or 20yrs. Already LeafNations ego cant take much more of a Blowhard like Burke. But good luck with that, and Roberto Luongo in between the pipes. Poor saps.

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05-01-2012, 10:26 AM
  #177
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I believe the op is talking about blowing it all sky-high, the Canadian franchises ceding from the league altogether (Habs, Leafs etc). Therefore, a Regina, Halifax etc could have a $60M payroll provided all of the teams were owned by the league itself. A form of commercialized socialism if you will whereby the winner of an 8-12 Team Canadian league would be able to "Challenge" for the Stanley Cup against the NHL league winner annually.

Frankly, I cant see it flying at all, as fans in Montreal, Ottawa, Vancouver or wherever else rather like the idea of a unified North American league, with rivalrys against a Detroit, Chicago, LA or San Jose etc things one looks forward to & have come to appreciate as all being part n' parcel of the natural order of things
Killion,

OK, I agree that the radical idea of a complete split of Canadian teams has its drawbacks. "Sovereignty Association" didn't work for Quebec as a province, but could the concept work for the NHL? The Canadian teams operate independently from the American teams, perhaps with a bit of an interlocking schedule, and then the Canadian and American teams meet in the finals? There is no logic at all to the divisional alignment as it exists and is proposed, and the "east/west" conference finals is outdated.

I could go on, but back to this particular thread ...

If Markham, Hamilton or anywhere else in Southern Ontario is ever going to have a "major pro" team to call its own it will not be in the current model of the NHL. There is no appetite to add Canadian teams at all, let alone double up within existing markets. And if its all about watching on television, and not attending in person, then why does it matter where any of the teams are located or whether they even have a city or state name attached to where they play?

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05-01-2012, 11:51 AM
  #178
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OK, I agree that the radical idea of a complete split of Canadian teams has its drawbacks. "Sovereignty Association" didn't work for Quebec as a province, but could the concept work for the NHL? The Canadian teams operate independently from the American teams, perhaps with a bit of an interlocking schedule, and then the Canadian and American teams meet in the finals?

If Markham, Hamilton or anywhere else in Southern Ontario is ever going to have a "major pro" team to call its own it will not be in the current model of the NHL. There is no appetite to add Canadian teams at all, let alone double up within existing markets. And if its all about watching on television, and not attending in person, then why does it matter where any of the teams are located or whether they even have a city or state name attached to where they play?
Hypothetically sure, no reason at all why you couldnt have an entirely Canadian Division in the NHL, along with a US Northeastern Division & so forth with limited inter-divisional play.... secondly, what is it about the "current NHL business model" that would halter expansion or relocation to Hamilton or Markham? Those are both premium markets, superior in many ways to about 5-6 existing Canadian and more than just a few American locations.... from the bolded word on in your post I quite vociferously disagree, as do millions more throughout Southern Ontario; and to your final point, are you being serious or facetious?. Has the stamp of Science Fiction to it. Rollerball.


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05-01-2012, 02:42 PM
  #179
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Of course, I'd argue that there are five Canadian teams too many. I've never seen a reason for more than Toronto and Montreal; although, I might be willing to concede Vancouver.

And as a resident of Southwestern Ontario, I have no desire to see a team in Hamilton, Markham, or anywhere else.

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05-01-2012, 02:47 PM
  #180
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Of course, I'd argue that there are five Canadian teams too many. I've never seen a reason for more than Toronto and Montreal; although, I might be willing to concede Vancouver.

And as a resident of Southwestern Ontario, I have no desire to see a team in Hamilton, Markham, or anywhere else.
Be Careful...

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05-01-2012, 02:58 PM
  #181
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And as a resident of Southwestern Ontario, I have no desire to see a team in Hamilton, Markham, or anywhere else.

And as a resident of Hamilton, I have no desire to see a team in Toronto or Vancouver.

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05-01-2012, 03:08 PM
  #182
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And as a resident of Hamilton, I have no desire to see a team in Toronto or Vancouver.
most of Southern Ontarioites?? would propably agree to not having a second team in Toronto.. would be an interesting pole to take.. Melrose would probably vote Toronto until his fingers bled but we'd have JMRowe on our side

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05-01-2012, 03:40 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by rojac View Post
Of course, I'd argue that there are five Canadian teams too many. I've never seen a reason for more than Toronto and Montreal; although, I might be willing to concede Vancouver.

And as a resident of Southwestern Ontario, I have no desire to see a team in Hamilton, Markham, or anywhere else.
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Be Careful...
rojac's opinion (myself included for a long time) is shared by many...

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05-01-2012, 03:43 PM
  #184
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rojac's opinion (myself included for a long time) is shared by many...
Check your PM Kil

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05-01-2012, 03:55 PM
  #185
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most of Southern Ontarioites?? would propably agree to not having a second team in Toronto.. would be an interesting pole to take..
... ya it would. Controversial, a real lightening rod for a lot of peoples frustrations. I sometimes wonder had the Leafs been a lot more successful over the past 45yrs, starting with hanging on to Bernie Parent & Dave Keon, won some more Cups', the very thought of another team in S.O. would be absolute heresy.

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05-01-2012, 03:59 PM
  #186
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... ya it would. Controversial, a real lightening rod for a lot of peoples frustrations. I sometimes wonder had the Leafs been a lot more successful over the past 45yrs, starting with hanging on to Bernie Parent & Dave Keon, won some more Cups', the very thought of another team in S.O. would be absolute heresy.
if Markham ends up with a team. god forbid they have a long period of losing.. not sure Torontonians could take another team sucking tbh..

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05-01-2012, 04:46 PM
  #187
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if Markham ends up with a team. god forbid they have a long period of losing.. not sure Torontonians could take another team sucking tbh..
You keep saying this and there is no data to support this. And who's to say it won't happen in Hamilton.

Your argument in effect is Hamilton > Markham because of sustainability but I could turn that around to support as stadium in Mississauga

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05-01-2012, 04:49 PM
  #188
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You keep saying this and there is no data to support this. And who's to say it won't happen in Hamilton.

Your argument in effect is Hamilton > Markham because of sustainability but I could turn that around to support as stadium in Mississauga
it wasnt anything but a comment.. Toronto already has a bad rep as being the worst sports city in NA for teams sucking..

you could make an argument for Mississauga. as soon as they get in the news for wanting to build a NHL arena, i'd love to debate whats a better city.

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05-01-2012, 04:50 PM
  #189
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if Markham ends up with a team. god forbid they have a long period of losing.. not sure Torontonians could take another team sucking tbh..
...ya, good point. Toronto enjoys a monopoly with an in-built design flaw that for the fan, is beyond frustrating. Most businesses focus on winning & failure to do so has consequences. That cost/benefit equation doesnt exist in a monopoly. Corrupted by its own power in the greatest hockey market on the planet. The rot set in ages ago, too much too easy. Boardroom infighting, laxity, wealth beyond imagining regardless of performance. Teams in Markham & Hamilton would absolutely shake them from their lethargy, and that would be a good thing for the franchise, the city of Toronto, its long suffering fans.

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05-01-2012, 05:03 PM
  #190
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it wasnt anything but a comment.. Toronto already has a bad rep as being the worst sports city in NA for teams sucking..

you could make an argument for Mississauga. as soon as they get in the news for wanting to build a NHL arena, i'd love to debate whats a better city.
Mississauga would do very well, probably better than Markham, however just a little to close to Buffalo. League will never take that gamble and that is also why Hamilton has no team, in my opinion.

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05-01-2012, 05:08 PM
  #191
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Mississauga .
meh, same as Markham only bigger.. just a suburb

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05-01-2012, 05:12 PM
  #192
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meh, same as Markham only bigger.. just a suburb
Well that may get you the argument you seem to be looking for.

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05-01-2012, 05:15 PM
  #193
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Well that may get you the argument you seem to be looking for.
haha.. Melrose will yell at me for sure

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05-01-2012, 05:27 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Ryan34222 View Post
it wasnt anything but a comment.. Toronto already has a bad rep as being the worst sports city in NA for teams sucking..

you could make an argument for Mississauga. as soon as they get in the news for wanting to build a NHL arena, i'd love to debate whats a better city.
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haha.. Melrose will yell at me for sure
In all fairness Hamilton would be better for several reasons, were are getting a new GO station and this would create traffic.

But it is what it is. Wheter we get a new team or not we will need a new stadium in 10 yrs.

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05-01-2012, 06:42 PM
  #195
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i realize this may be hard for some of the canadian fans to realize, but the NHL needs the united states just as much as it needs canada
and no league will ever be able to compete with the NHL

Absolutely correct!

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05-01-2012, 10:06 PM
  #196
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Hypothetically sure, no reason at all why you couldnt have an entirely Canadian Division in the NHL, along with a US Northeastern Division & so forth with limited inter-divisional play.... secondly, what is it about the "current NHL business model" that would halter expansion or relocation to Hamilton or Markham? Those are both premium markets, superior in many ways to about 5-6 existing Canadian and more than just a few American locations.... from the bolded word on in your post I quite vociferously disagree, as do millions more throughout Southern Ontario; and to your final point, are you being serious or facetious?. Has the stamp of Science Fiction to it. Rollerball.

Owners of the Leafs and Sabres would never agree to allowing an NHL team in Markham or Hamilton. Suspected high level of fan support has nothing to do with it. Neither Markham or Hamilton would increase American TV exposure, and thats what really matters to the NHL game plan.

True Winnipeg managed to return to the NHL (owing to a financial crisis in Atlanta), but does that mean the Nordiques are destined to return too? Not so sure its that simple. I seriously doubt the owners of the Canadiens are as excited about re-establishing a team in Quebec City. When an arena is built in Seattle, that's where the NHL wants to go next, or Houston.

Embracing the idea of a new Canadian league, as ludicrous as some may think could solve a lot of things. A few owners with deep pockets and guided by the right hockey visionaries could restore the excitement of hockey which has gone south in recent decades. Then just maybe you'll see major pro hockey established in Markham and Hamilton, but not until.

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05-01-2012, 10:16 PM
  #197
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True Winnipeg managed to return to the NHL (owing to a financial crisis in Atlanta), but does that mean the Nordiques are destined to return too? Not so sure its that simple. I seriously doubt the owners of the Canadiens are as excited about re-establishing a team in Quebec City. When an arena is built in Seattle, that's where the NHL wants to go next, or Houston.
Why does everyone think so highly of Houston? The Aeros aren't all that high in AHL attendance. Houston was passed over in hte last expansion which included 4 slots.

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05-02-2012, 08:30 AM
  #198
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Why does everyone think so highly of Houston? The Aeros aren't all that high in AHL attendance. Houston was passed over in hte last expansion which included 4 slots.
You mean besides the fact that it's a freaking humongous market?

And actually, the Aeros were fifth in attendance in the AHL this past season, so that's nothing to necessarily scoff at. Much higher then Hamilton, though their meh AHL draw is rarely used as an argument against them.

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05-08-2012, 06:21 AM
  #199
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Yotes not leaving

They better scale this arena back to 8-10000 seats.

Wonder if the folks in QC are getting nervous about their arena becoming a white elephant aswell..

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05-08-2012, 11:41 AM
  #200
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Yotes not leaving

They better scale this arena back to 8-10000 seats.

Wonder if the folks in QC are getting nervous about their arena becoming a white elephant as well..
..meh. Not much of anything was actually said by Bettman or Jamison yesterday. A Coyotes sale (locally) is far from being any kind of a certainty, indeed, it seems a real stretch, however, with the incredible run their making in the playoffs, something had to be said just for the sake of appearances if nothing else. The team possibly playing into June if they get past the Kings will have most assuredly altered the leagues plans. Hard to say what they'll do thereafter as Jamison appears to be still hunting down investors, everything still very much "conceptual". Code for what exactly is anyones guess. I wouldnt worry about it, fret, its a slow train coming but eventually, NHL hockey will return to QC & Hamilton, Markham included, likely Seattle.

Hang in there.

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