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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Bob MaCown ..fan 590 makes a great point

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Old
12-10-2004, 03:34 PM
  #1
shayne
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Bob MaCown ..fan 590 makes a great point

The stupid leafs would take the 24% saving s from the roll back and go and sign more UFA because they were fully prepared to spend $60 million plus

The players know this and understand that the league would take the roll back to get the season going and then all those UFA players will get signed and the NHL would be dooned in another year or two and be stuck with this system for 6 yrs or so.

Unreal, i never thought about this, the NHL needs a salary cap so the top 3 or 4 teams don't screw it up all over again.

Brilliant!! move Goodenow but i hope Bettman does not bite.

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12-10-2004, 03:36 PM
  #2
mudcrutch79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shayne
The stupid leafs would take the 24% saving s from the roll back and go and sign more UFA because they were fully prepared to spend $60 million plus

The players know this and understand that the league would take the roll back to get the season going and then all those UFA players will get signed and the NHL would be dooned in another year or two and be stuck with this system for 6 yrs or so.

Unreal, i never thought about this, the NHL needs a salary cap so the top 3 or 4 teams don't screw it up all over again.

Brilliant!! move Goodenow but i hope Bettman does not bite.
That point has been getting made here virtually since this offer came to light. It's hardly earth shattering.

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Old
12-10-2004, 03:38 PM
  #3
FLYLine24
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Hmm did bob also say "The stupid leafs"?

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12-10-2004, 03:40 PM
  #4
Nich
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i second the stupid leafs comment.

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Old
12-10-2004, 06:10 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shayne
The stupid leafs would take the 24% saving s from the roll back and go and sign more UFA because they were fully prepared to spend $60 million plus
And who are they going to sign that will improve their club in a major way?

They have their top four defencemen (Kaberle, McCabe, Leetch, Klee) signed and they've got their top six forwards signed (Sundin, Nieuwendyk, Roberts, Nolan, Mogilny, Tucker). There aren't a lot of spots on the roster left for free agents.

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12-10-2004, 06:19 PM
  #6
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Originally Posted by BlackRedGold
And who are they going to sign that will improve their club in a major way?

They have their top four defencemen (Kaberle, McCabe, Leetch, Klee) signed and they've got their top six forwards signed (Sundin, Nieuwendyk, Roberts, Nolan, Mogilny, Tucker). There aren't a lot of spots on the roster left for free agents.
im sure they can (and will) make room for a player like chris pronger.

 
Old
12-10-2004, 06:24 PM
  #7
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So now its the Leafs ruining the league. Can someone at least include some statement of how the Red Wings have ruined everything? My life is empty without it.

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12-10-2004, 06:36 PM
  #8
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Originally Posted by hockeytown9321
So now its the Leafs ruining the league. Can someone at least include some statement of how the Red Wings have ruined everything? My life is empty without it.
Maybe we need to go to a Swedish style league.
Tier 1 for cities that can support pro-hockey.
Tier 2 for the smaller Canadian cities and the American cities where people chip their teeth biting into hockey pucks they thought were ice-cream pies.

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12-10-2004, 06:43 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperKarateMonkey
im sure they can (and will) make room for a player like chris pronger.
Except that Pronger is under contract.

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12-10-2004, 06:59 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRedGold
Except that Pronger is under contract.
WHich is probably why he said a player like Chris Pronger.
Hooked on phonics worked for me.

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12-10-2004, 07:43 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shayne
The stupid leafs would take the 24% saving s from the roll back and go and sign more UFA because they were fully prepared to spend $60 million plus

The players know this and understand that the league would take the roll back to get the season going and then all those UFA players will get signed and the NHL would be dooned in another year or two and be stuck with this system for 6 yrs or so.

Unreal, i never thought about this, the NHL needs a salary cap so the top 3 or 4 teams don't screw it up all over again.

Brilliant!! move Goodenow but i hope Bettman does not bite.
a hard cap is not the answer. when you have 30 markets there will be large markets and small market and no system will prevent the large market from spending. But when you have a luxury type system the small markets will receive a "compensation" from the big markets. I think the owners will accept thi proposal from the players, I think there will be some adjustments to the luxury tax.GAME ON

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Old
12-10-2004, 07:45 PM
  #12
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i don't think it is unreasonable to expect the owners to start using some semblence of self-control, common sense and intelligence...

the main arguement for a cap is that the owners are too stupid to make anything else work and they can't be trusted. but you can't expect the players to give EVERYTHING...at some point the owners have to learn from their mistakes and change. the rollback undoes many of the mistakes and gives the owners a second chance...no matter how 'idiot proof' you try to make the system there will ALWAYS be loopholes and 'ways to beat the system' so no matter what the deal is part of the solution needs owners to use self control and common sense...

the proposal addresses things that artificially inflate salaries (ie qualifying offers, arbitration, etc) so that takes away the things that are out of the owners controls...from that point if salaries go up it will be back owners willingly give that $$ out and have no one to blame but themselves if they repeat the same mistakes.

and keep in mind that this isn't the best proposal, i think the players know that the luxury tax isn't nearly enough but they left themselves some room to move if the owners come back demanding a cap with 'more teeth'...if the owners agree to the concept then arguing numbers becomes easy and you could lower the thresholds and raise the % to make it more effective...

as far as the leafs being able to spend $60 mil, yes they could but there are other features that will mean that other teams won't have to copy that and drive their own payrolls up and if you negotiate the luxury tax up to a higher level then if the leafs want to spend that much $$ they would also get hit by a big luxury tax which means that the more teams like the leafs spend, the more the small market teams gain...

and the leafs might be willing to spend $60 mil, but if a $60 mil payroll means actually paying $70-75 mil after the tax would they have a $60 mil payroll?? or would they more likely stay in the $50 mil range which would jump to $60 mil after the tax?

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Old
12-10-2004, 08:10 PM
  #13
Potatoe1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shayne
The stupid leafs would take the 24% saving s from the roll back and go and sign more UFA because they were fully prepared to spend $60 million plus

The players know this and understand that the league would take the roll back to get the season going and then all those UFA players will get signed and the NHL would be dooned in another year or two and be stuck with this system for 6 yrs or so.

Unreal, i never thought about this, the NHL needs a salary cap so the top 3 or 4 teams don't screw it up all over again.

Brilliant!! move Goodenow but i hope Bettman does not bite.

So what?

Why does anyone care if the leafs go out and sign a bunch of older players to ridiculous contracts.

Sure the Leafs will be better but they will have to pay out a fair bit in luxury tax and the teams who build around players under 31 will make even more money.

The PA's proposal should help the teams that want to make money, make money.

Isn't that what the whole point was?

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Old
12-10-2004, 08:39 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR469
i don't think it is unreasonable to expect the owners to start using some semblence of self-control, common sense and intelligence...
Well, judging from many posts around here, it is entirely unreasonable to expect such a thing from GMs/owners. But that's why a stiffer luxury tax is in order.

Yeah, a big rollback might theoretically open up all of this salary space for the Leafs, but not if it's taxed properly. And if the leafs still want to sign a bad contract for a lot of cash, smaller market teams should rejoice at getting some extra pocket money.

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Old
12-10-2004, 08:49 PM
  #15
thinkwild
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I cant see how the owners can be given the market corrected to where they want it to be, controls to maintain it, and still object because it allows them to run themselves into bankruptcy in an orgy of uncontrollable spending. Unless it is idiot proof, they just cant make it work?

How can this claim not elicit howls of laughter? Mind Boggling!

If Tampa Bay now can keep all its players and payroll is lowered $10mil to boot, what does it matter what UFA signing teams do or pay?

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12-10-2004, 09:06 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nich
i second the stupid leafs comment.
:lol

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Old
12-10-2004, 09:41 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mackdogs
WHich is probably why he said a player like Chris Pronger.
Hooked on phonics worked for me.
From dictionary.com

like
1. Possessing the characteristics of; resembling closely; similar to.
2.
  1. In the typical manner of: It's not like you to take offense.
  2. In the same way as: lived like royalty.
3. Inclined or disposed to: felt like running away.
4. As if the probability exists for: looks like a bad year for farmers.
5. Such as; for example: saved things like old newspapers and pieces of string.

He was using Pronger as an example because there are no players similiar to Pronger and if there was he could have just named them.

Apparently Hooked on Phonics didn't work for you after all.

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12-10-2004, 09:44 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRedGold
Except that Pronger is under contract.
He's going to be an unrestricted free agent in the offseason.

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12-10-2004, 09:46 PM
  #19
Kid Canada
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Originally Posted by Leafaholix
He's going to be an unrestricted free agent in the offseason.
And most likely sign for 10 million per season with the Toronto Maple Leafs. If only the old CBA expired in 2 years.

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Old
12-10-2004, 11:06 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by BlackRedGold
From dictionary.com

like
1. Possessing the characteristics of; resembling closely; similar to.
2.
  1. In the typical manner of: It's not like you to take offense.
  2. In the same way as: lived like royalty.
3. Inclined or disposed to: felt like running away.
4. As if the probability exists for: looks like a bad year for farmers.
5. Such as; for example: saved things like old newspapers and pieces of string.

He was using Pronger as an example because there are no players similiar to Pronger and if there was he could have just named them.

Apparently Hooked on Phonics didn't work for you after all.
i didnt know my post would create so much confusion, i guess i should've been more specific.
what i meant was that when pronger becomes a UFA next year the leafs are likely one of those teams that offer up $7-10M for his service.
another comparable player that can hit the UFA market next year is scott neidermayer, comparable because they are both elite Dman earning similar contract now and becomes UFA next year.
hope that clears things up

 
Old
12-10-2004, 11:34 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkwild
I cant see how the owners can be given the market corrected to where they want it to be, controls to maintain it, and still object because it allows them to run themselves into bankruptcy in an orgy of uncontrollable spending. Unless it is idiot proof, they just cant make it work?

How can this claim not elicit howls of laughter? Mind Boggling!

If Tampa Bay now can keep all its players and payroll is lowered $10mil to boot, what does it matter what UFA signing teams do or pay?
I am now done beating the dead horse and have resorted to dragging it by the head around the barnyard. If everyone spends their budget we still have a league of haves and have nots, still have virtually the same economic system that got us in trouble in the first place. I do not want a work stoppage every 6-10 years. I want a damn agreement in which everyone makes an acceptable piece of the pie and at the end of the day all teams can feel they have a chance to win something without a picture of the Virgin Mary having to appear on their team meal -to make a crazy never to be repeated run to the finals.

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Old
12-10-2004, 11:37 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Potatoe
So what?

Why does anyone care if the leafs go out and sign a bunch of older players to ridiculous contracts.

Sure the Leafs will be better but they will have to pay out a fair bit in luxury tax and the teams who build around players under 31 will make even more money.

The PA's proposal should help the teams that want to make money, make money.

Isn't that what the whole point was?


Owners' objective: have the opportunity to build/maintain a financially and competitively viable franchise.

(Some) fans' objective: prohibit Chris Pronger from earning as much as the free market system allows. Don't let that other team buy all the shiny "player-toys". Even if accumulating all those expensive toys (in the case of Toronto, St. Louis, NYR, Philly, etc.) have resulted to date in not a single Cup, nor even an appearance in the Finals in the last seven seasons!

I'm all for putting more equitable amounts of cash in owner's pockets among the 30 franchises, through revenue sharing. But telling them the extent to which they can or cannot allocate that money (i.e., hardcap) is another.


Last edited by Trottier: 12-10-2004 at 11:49 PM.
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Old
12-10-2004, 11:38 PM
  #23
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What do unrestricted free agents have to do with anything?

Contracts given to unrestricted free agents affect nothing. The Senators could sign Shaun Van Allen to a $20 million contract tomorrow and it wouldn't affect the salary structure of any other team.

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12-10-2004, 11:40 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexicon Devil
What do unrestricted free agents have to do with anything?

Contracts given to unrestricted free agents affect nothing. The Senators could sign Shaun Van Allen to a $20 million contract tomorrow and it wouldn't affect the salary structure of any other team.
If SVA made $20M, a Mike Keane would demand $25M.

It does affect the league.

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12-10-2004, 11:46 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
If SVA made $20M, a Mike Keane would demand $25M.

It does affect the league.

And when no one gives it too him what happens?

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