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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Bob MaCown ..fan 590 makes a great point

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Old
12-13-2004, 09:33 AM
  #76
hockeytown9321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
It's called negotiating.
But the players have no power to negotiate, right? Why should the league give them anything?

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12-13-2004, 09:35 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by hockeytown9321
But the players have no power to negotiate, right? Why should the league give them anything?
The NHL is simply setting the bar for the players to negotiate from. The players weak position is fully taken into account and was on full display with their first real offer.

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12-13-2004, 09:36 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
The NHL is simply setting the bar for the players to negotiate from. The players weak position is fully taken into account and was on full display with their first real offer.
Again I ask: Why would the league make any concessions if they don't have to? Answer the question.

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12-13-2004, 09:39 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by hockeytown9321
Again I ask: Why would the league make any concessions if they don't have to? Answer the question.
There are many reasons to demonstrate their willingness to bargain, each with it own costs and advantages/disadvantages.

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12-13-2004, 09:39 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
There are many reasons to demonstrate their willingness to bargain, each with it own costs and advantages/disadvantages.
Like what?

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12-13-2004, 09:42 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by hockeytown9321
Like what?
Do you really need me to explain the entire collective baraining process to you?

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12-13-2004, 09:45 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
Do you really need me to explain the entire collective baraining process to you?
Yep.

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12-13-2004, 09:46 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by hockeytown9321
Yep.
I'll make you a deal.

I'll do it if you promise to hold your breath until I'm finished.

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12-13-2004, 09:50 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
I'll make you a deal.

I'll do it if you promise to hold your breath until I'm finished.
Sure, I need to be enlightened. And since you have all the power, I can't bargain with you. You can dictate the terms.

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12-13-2004, 09:57 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by hockeytown9321
Sure, I need to be enlightened. And since you have all the power, I can't bargain with you. You can dictate the terms.
You do need to be enlightened, but since I have no power to enforce your end of the deal I'll sadly have to take a pass. Too bad.

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12-13-2004, 10:03 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
You do need to be enlightened, but since I have no power to enforce your end of the deal I'll sadly have to take a pass. Too bad.
Yes, it is too bad. But it does sound to me that you got caught contradicting yourself and don't want to admit it. And until you set me straight and answer my question, I think thats the impression most peole will have.

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12-13-2004, 10:04 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by hockeytown9321
Yes, it is too bad. But it does sound to me that you got caught contradicting yourself and don't want to admit it. And until you set me straight and answer my question, I think thats the impression most peole will have.
Sure thing sparky.

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12-13-2004, 10:05 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
Sure thing sparky.
Glad you see it my way, Mr. Credibility.

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12-13-2004, 10:08 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by hockeytown9321
Glad you see it my way, Mr. Credibility.
You don't understand the most basic aspect of negotiating, like a low-ball initial offer, and then have the gall to question my credibility.

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12-13-2004, 10:27 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeytown9321
I don't remember saying that and I'm pro tax. Obviously the tax numbers would have to be alot higher than what the PA proposed. But that was a starting point.
Well then we're in the same boat really. I have nothing against high taxes starting at $35M or so.

Going from 1.8M to 1.3M in average salary is ~27% cut. Which kinda puts PA's 24% rollback offer in to perspective since it's about the same effecet as the hard cap proposal by the league. The difference is that PA's offer has a very shortterm effect whereas league is looking for a longterm effect.

Which also proves that PA is fully expecting the salaries to continue their past escalating meaning the 24% would have been eaten up in 2-3 years.

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12-13-2004, 10:59 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
You don't understand the most basic aspect of negotiating, like a low-ball initial offer, and then have the gall to question my credibility.
Its unabated gall really. Thanks for noticing.

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12-13-2004, 11:03 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Pepper
Well then we're in the same boat really. I have nothing against high taxes starting at $35M or so.

Going from 1.8M to 1.3M in average salary is ~27% cut. Which kinda puts PA's 24% rollback offer in to perspective since it's about the same effecet as the hard cap proposal by the league. The difference is that PA's offer has a very shortterm effect whereas league is looking for a longterm effect.

Which also proves that PA is fully expecting the salaries to continue their past escalating meaning the 24% would have been eaten up in 2-3 years.
Fair enough, and we really do want the same thing, we just disagee on how to get there.

If the NHL proposed an NBA style soft cap tomorrow, I wouldn't be in love with it, but I could live with it. And I think the players could too.

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12-13-2004, 11:13 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by hockeytown9321
Fair enough, and we really do want the same thing, we just disagee on how to get there.

If the NHL proposed an NBA style soft cap tomorrow, I wouldn't be in love with it, but I could live with it. And I think the players could too.
Daly has stated, repeatedly, that the NHL would negotiate an NBA style soft cap.

I'm pretty sure that is where they'll end up if the PA is smart enought to start negotiating the terms of cost certainty. If they cost the NHL the season, expect the owners to put the boots to them with a hard cap.

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12-13-2004, 11:20 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
Daly has stated, repeatedly, that the NHL would negotiate an NBA style soft cap.

I'm pretty sure that is where they'll end up if the PA is smart enought to start negotiating the terms of cost certainty. If they cost the NHL the season, expect the owners to put the boots to them with a hard cap.
would your stance change if the NHL announced they would accept a hard cap of 31m only ?

dr

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Old
12-13-2004, 11:21 AM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
Daly has stated, repeatedly, that the NHL would negotiate an NBA style soft cap.

I'm pretty sure that is where they'll end up if the PA is smart enought to start negotiating the terms of cost certainty. If they cost the NHL the season, expect the owners to put the boots to them with a hard cap.
But as they're putting the boots to them they'll let up and let the cap be set higher? Why? Isn't the point of the cap to maximize profits? If the league has the PA bent over like you say, why give them anything? Anything short of the total destruction of the PA isn't enough, right?

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12-13-2004, 11:29 AM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DementedReality
would your stance change if the NHL announced they would accept a hard cap of 31m only ?

dr
No.

Not my optimal solution, but far better than the old CBA.

Any system that rewards brains over bucks is better than what we had.

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12-13-2004, 11:32 AM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeytown9321
But as they're putting the boots to them they'll let up and let the cap be set higher? Why? Isn't the point of the cap to maximize profits? If the league has the PA bent over like you say, why give them anything? Anything short of the total destruction of the PA isn't enough, right?


The NHL is currently giving the players a chance to negotiate the terms of cost certainty. They'd prefer to have labour peace and this season take place. If the players refuse to negotitate cost certainty and they are putting the boots to them, then they won't set the cap higher.

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12-13-2004, 11:36 AM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
The NHL is currently giving the players a chance to negotiate the terms of cost certainty. They'd prefer to have labour peace and this season take place. If the players refuse to negotitate cost certainty and they are putting the boots to them, then they won't set the cap higher.
I thought they'd prefer to go to impasse, destroy the PA completely and use replacement players?

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12-13-2004, 11:38 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by hockeytown9321
I thought they'd prefer to go to impasse, destroy the PA completely and use replacement players?
That is one possible scenario.

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