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Is Dougie Hamilton Coming up This year?

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Old
04-27-2012, 11:13 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by OrrOverGretzky View Post
Off to get my haircut then off to the Jack ( one of my favorite old barns ) in St Catherines to catch game 5.

How is this relevent? Dougie's playing
Do you happen to have film equipment so you can stream for us poor saps living in the US?


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04-27-2012, 11:18 AM
  #77
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Do you happen to have film equipment so you can stream for us poor saps living in the US?

If you tell me how to stream it from my PC, I will certainly try.

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04-27-2012, 11:21 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by OrrOverGretzky View Post
Not speaking for Kate but I think she is referring to 2 free agents from separate teams talking and saying "let's go sign in Columbus together"
Right on.

I'm probably not being super clear. It's Friday. I struggle on Fridays.

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04-27-2012, 11:25 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by OrrOverGretzky View Post
Not speaking for Kate but I think she is referring to 2 free agents from separate teams talking and saying "let's go sign in Columbus together"
Ahh ok, I was a tad confused because Kate is a sharp gal

Yes, that would be lame.

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04-27-2012, 11:25 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
I'd say he gets the 9 day, but bear in mind that Claude is really really conservative when it comes to his defensemen. He'll have to show polish, not just talent, in order to stick at that position on this team.
Pretty much this Dojji.

I happen to think Dougie is going to be a stud even as soon as next year, but I dont want him having significant growing pains when we're in the midst of competing for a Stanley Cup.

"Limiting his ice time" significiantly for an extended period of time is not good for the team if its significant. What happens with McQuaid too? Does he get 19 minutes a game now thats hes the 5th defensman? Quaider is a good D man, but call me crazy for not wanting him on the ice for that long.

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04-27-2012, 11:26 AM
  #81
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I wouldn't have a problem with Parise or Suter doing that at all*. They earn the right to act as they please as Free Agents and teams have the right to either sign them both or not sign either.

*Provided they don't sign together in Montreal, Toronto, Buffalo, Ottawa, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, or Vancouver.

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04-27-2012, 11:27 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
Did I say he wouldn't get more than the 9 day?

I'm just saying he's a teenage defenseman who'll have to prove he's dependable to a coach who is going to hold him to a high standard.

He puts up a good camp, he gets the 9 day tryout. He isn't a Widemanesque turnover machine in the 9 day, he sticks. That simple.
That's not what you said initially. You implied that he might get the 9 Day, but even that was iffy given the fact that you are convinced Clode will play it ultra-conservative this year.

Back-pedaling already.

Haven't been on in a bit, but it's good to know that some things don't change.

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04-27-2012, 11:29 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by patty59 View Post
He will do it much the same way that he did with Kaberle, Corvo and McQuaid. It's not that hard to play a d-man in safe situations. He's done it before. Plus it's not as if Hamilton is inept at the position.
You wouldnt have called Pieterangelo "inept" either, and he had major growing pains.

Not saying Hamilton struggling is likely, im saying its possible he might not be the D men we think he'll be NEXT year, and we should cover our bases.

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04-27-2012, 11:31 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Kirk- NEHJ View Post
Tracy- I think the perspective is limited here- it isn't a zero sum game. Being scratched does not equal lack of development, though in a perfect world a player gets ample opportunity to play when he first comes up (and let's face it-- putting him in the AHL would be preferable, but that can't happen as we all know).

At the same time, Hamilton can benefit from limited playing time AND the opportunity to be around the NHL team where he can be mentored by the club's leaders on both playing side and coaching staff, to include the off-ice strength and conditioning he can get from John Whitesides, who is a proven task master at getting his athletes into top playing shape.

Let me ask you this:

What good is playing every night and dominating competition? Does that make him a *better* defenseman necessarily? What happens to Hamilton if his game regresses? Will playing a fourth year of junior allow him to address the issues in his game, or will those flaws become more pronounced because he can do whatever he wants without much of a real challenge? I would add that the Bruins have already seen the coaching and development he's gotten at the OHL level...is it going to get appreciably better? Once in junior, the Bruins have no real way to control his development-- they are trusting another team and organization whose endstate could put them at cross-purposes with the Bruins to get him ready for being a pro in 2013. Some teams do great with this, others do not. Just saying it's possible that another year of junior could hurt him more than help.

What if he begins to develop additional bad habits because he is so much more ahead of the power curve? What does Boston do with a player then who shows up and then has to spend considerable time undoing flaws that developed because he was at a level he was far too advanced for? Do increased expectations also have an adverse effect on Hamilton and his dynamic if he goes to the OHL and puts up another beast of a year? Putting up the points is great, but how does that really help him to be an NHL player beyond what he's already gotten in three seasons at that level? Seems like a good deal for Niagara (or what other team might trade for him), not so great for Boston.

Healthy scratch is not the end of the world IF he's still benefiting from being around top pros who show him what right looks like. Far more difficult to try and show him how to be an NHL player if he's had another year to become less-focused and disinterested, which is what could potentially happen if he's allowed to go back down and go through the motions. He's only human- we can't sit behind computer keyboards and demand that every player put his best foot forward at all times. Some guys can do that, but others face a bigger challenge. Hamilton could go either way, IMO-- not sure if I'm in the Bruins org. that I don't want to take the chance that he takes a step back without a Zdeno Chara, Dennis Seidenberg, Andrew Ference, etc. to say to him, "Hey kid-- you did that OK, but you could use some help in these areas," on a daily basis.

In summary, I think it's myopic to simply focus on the potential lack of playing time as the main deterrent to keeping him in the NHL. He could pull a Kyle McLaren and force the team to play him more because he proves himself to be up to the task. If he's totally out of his element, maybe the answer is to send him back, but it's not a choice that is going to be made until September at the earliest. Either way, I'll wait to see how he looks in TC/exhibition before making up my mind. The Bruins did a pretty good job with Seguin...why not give them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to doing what is best for the team and Hamilton? They aren't going to just let him rust away without putting him in the position to succeed- far too much invested in him for that.


As usual.

Johnny Boychuk and McQuaid (obviously both significantly older than Dougie) managed to take advantage of that 7th D position and the learning potential that it offers to make themselves starters when the opportunity presented itself.

There is a lot more to the NHL game and being a player than what the fan sees on game night.

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04-27-2012, 11:33 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by GloryDaze4877 View Post
That's not what you said initially. You implied that he might get the 9 Day, but even that was iffy given the fact that you are convinced Clode will play it ultra-conservative this year.

Back-pedaling already.

Haven't been on in a bit, but it's good to know that some things don't change.
I actually didn't get that impression from his post at all. I thought he meant hed at least get a shot to show he belongs, but at the same time we all need to keep in mind that Juliens system relies heavily on defense and if Julien cant rely on him to cover assignments/be in the proper position then why keep him on the roster?

Could be wrong tho.

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04-27-2012, 11:35 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
You wouldnt have called Pieterangelo "inept" either, and he had major growing pains.

Not saying Hamilton struggling is likely, im saying its possible he might not be the D men we think he'll be NEXT year, and we should cover our bases.
The most outstanding issue when Pieterangelo was returned to Juniors wasn`t just because JD thought it would be best for his development, but the Ownership/Financial situation in St. Louis was incredibly suspect at that time too from all I read

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04-27-2012, 11:37 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
I actually didn't get that impression from his post at all. I thought he meant hed at least get a shot to show he belongs, but at the same time we all need to keep in mind that Juliens system relies heavily on defense and if Julien cant rely on him to cover assignments/be in the proper position then why keep him on the roster?

Could be wrong tho.
Joe Corvo/Dennis Wideman say hello, neither stellar defensively, even a green Dougie I`d argue will be better in his first year pro, whenever that is

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04-27-2012, 11:39 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by ODAAT View Post
The most outstanding issue when Pieterangelo was returned to Juniors wasn`t just because JD thought it would be best for his development, but the Ownership/Financial situation in St. Louis was incredibly suspect at that time too from all I read
So the -9 in 9 games had nothing to do with it? He simply wasn't playing like the 4th overall pick yet, along with the issues you said.

Look, I'm only suggesting that Hamilton might not step in right away without a hitch, and we should cover ourselves accordingly because we STILL want to compete for a Cup, with or without Hamilton. Hamiltons a blue chipper, but he might not reach that potential for a couple years.

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04-27-2012, 11:42 AM
  #89
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Joe Corvo/Dennis Wideman say hello, neither stellar defensively, even a green Dougie I`d argue will be better in his first year pro, whenever that is
Joe Corvo and Dennis Wideman are how old? Corvo and Wideman are irrelevant to the point he was trying to make, at least by my estimation. Despite not being stellar defensively, theyre veterans. And you're arguing my point by saying "whenever that is," we simply dont know when he'll reach his potential.

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04-27-2012, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
So the -9 in 9 games had nothing to do with it? He simply wasn't playing like the 4th overall pick yet, along with the issues you said.

Look, I'm only suggesting that Hamilton might not step in right away without a hitch, and we should cover ourselves accordingly because we STILL want to compete for a Cup, with or without Hamilton. Hamiltons a blue chipper, but he might not reach that potential for a couple years.
You do realize as well, he suffered a head injury that season in I believe Hollweg crushed him from behind???? The Blues, as I mentioned were in an absolute mess of a financial/ownership position, trust me when I mention this, JD was on the Bob Mccown show here a few yrs back, AP was going to 99.9% be returned to Junior before the 10 gamer out, the head injury only made it easier to do so

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04-27-2012, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
Joe Corvo and Dennis Wideman are how old? Corvo and Wideman are irrelevant to the point he was trying to make, at least by my estimation. Despite not being stellar defensively, theyre veterans. And you're arguing my point by saying "whenever that is," we simply dont know when he'll reach his potential.
Your point was that CJ plays those whom he trusts to play his system, which, isn`t incorrect to a degree, neither Wides nor Corvo were very skilled at doing that, vets or not, Wides was a 3rd year player, who upon his arrival, was hardly taking the NHL by storm

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04-27-2012, 11:50 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by GloryDaze4877 View Post


As usual.

Johnny Boychuk and McQuaid (obviously both significantly older than Dougie) managed to take advantage of that 7th D position and the learning potential that it offers to make themselves starters when the opportunity presented itself.

There is a lot more to the NHL game and being a player than what the fan sees on game night.
Thanks, J--

My lengthy and wordy post can be summed up far more succinctly with these two points:

1. FACT: In Boston, the Bruins control Dougie's development, but in the OHL they do not.

2. INTERROGATIVE: How much more of a benefit is going back and playing a lot of minutes at that level going to really be than having him in the NHL and "soaking in" (to use a Mark Recchi fave phrase) all he can even in a reduced playing role?

If the answer is anything remotely close to-- the situations are probably similar-- then I think we have the way ahead.


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04-27-2012, 11:50 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by GloryDaze4877 View Post
That's not what you said initially. You implied that he might get the 9 Day, but even that was iffy given the fact that you are convinced Clode will play it ultra-conservative this year.

Back-pedaling already.

Haven't been on in a bit, but it's good to know that some things don't change.
There's no controversy here.

Does the idea that Hamilton has an uphill fight to prove he can play NHL caliber defense to Claude, a defense-first coach, really not dovetail in your mind with the idea that he'll get a chance to prove it?

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04-27-2012, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
So the -9 in 9 games had nothing to do with it? He simply wasn't playing like the 4th overall pick yet, along with the issues you said.

Look, I'm only suggesting that Hamilton might not step in right away without a hitch, and we should cover ourselves accordingly because we STILL want to compete for a Cup, with or without Hamilton. Hamiltons a blue chipper, but he might not reach that potential for a couple years.
He didn't have #33 and #44 for back up on the ice though.

Hamilton will make his rookies errors, but they will make the po and id prefer to see him develop here next year.

If he doesn't look ready come deadline day, they can bring in someone.

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04-27-2012, 12:00 PM
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Your point was that CJ plays those whom he trusts to play his system, which, isn`t incorrect to a degree, neither Wides nor Corvo were very skilled at doing that, vets or not, Wides was a 3rd year player, who upon his arrival, was hardly taking the NHL by storm
The Wideman comparison is a stretch, he had four seasons of Juniors and one full AHL season, then two seasons with the Blues. Hardly comparable. Corvo either, theyre different situations.

CJ won't play a green 19 year old rookie 15+ minutes a night if he doesnt trust him, its mind boggling to me that some (not neccessarily you), think its a shoe in he'll step in without a hitch.

My point is I want insurance in case the rookies dont pan out next year, that is all.

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04-27-2012, 12:03 PM
  #96
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He didn't have #33 and #44 for back up on the ice though.

Hamilton will make his rookies errors, but they will make the po and id prefer to see him develop here next year.

If he doesn't look ready come deadline day, they can bring in someone.
Completely agree.

I'd bet on him sticking with the big club for the entire season and playing 14-18 mins a night successfully. But what if he doesn't? Thats my only point.

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04-27-2012, 12:03 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
There's no controversy here.

Does the idea that Hamilton has an uphill fight to prove he can play NHL caliber defense to Claude, a defense-first coach, really not dovetail in your mind with the idea that he'll get a chance to prove it?
I don't agree with this at all. There are other factors that come into play (that Kirk outlined) that you are apparently not considering? First and foremost is that playing on the B's next year as the 7th d-man might not be a bad thing for Hamilton and his short and long-term development.

You say, he will get the 9 Day and we will see. I don't think there is any "we will see". My personal opinion is that the B's will keep Hamilton in Boston next year. Best case scenario is that he instantly gets it and is a Top 4 guy, worst is that he needs to improve and is the #7 d-man.

As far as your assumptions about Clode being a defense-first coach at the expense of all else. That is simply not true.

Wideman, Kaberle, Corvo, Hunwick, Kampfer were all guys that were given opportunities. They were all poor to below average defensively (which was a known commodity), but were in the lineup as long as the positives that they brought offensively continued to outweigh their defensive deficiencies.

If Hamilton brings enough positives to the lineup to counterbalance the mistakes he will make due to inexperience, he will play. If the negatives outweigh the positives, he will be the #7 d-man, and as Kirk said, hopefully take advantage of that situation and soak it all up.

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04-27-2012, 12:43 PM
  #98
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Bruins do alot better with PMDs when they bring them through the system it seems, hopefully Dougie is that guy for us...

Look at the long line since the lockout...


Leetch, Mara, Wideman, Morris, Kaberle, Corvo...


In fact, the only one who had any sucess was wideman and he had a few years to work out the kinks before he really took off in 08/09

I like Dougie's Chances since hes coming through the system and not directly into it

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04-27-2012, 12:57 PM
  #99
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Love you (Tim Vezina Thomas) as a poster.. and Dojii too to an extent but is there any reason you guys are completely ignoring Kirk's points?

No offense to the users you are quoting/debating with but Kirk basically surmised perfectly the reasons why it would probably behoove the Bruins to keep Hamilton up next year rather than keep him in the OHL.

Trying my best not to sound like a suck up

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04-27-2012, 01:11 PM
  #100
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Love you (Tim Vezina Thomas) as a poster.. and Dojii too to an extent but is there any reason you guys are completely ignoring Kirk's points?

No offense to the users you are quoting/debating with but Kirk basically surmised perfectly the reasons why it would probably behoove the Bruins to keep Hamilton up next year rather than keep him in the OHL.

Trying my best not to sound like a suck up
Suck up!

Seriously, I'd love to see Dougie in Boston this fall, if the Bruins deem it in his best interest (and the club's). I want him to shadow Chara 24/7.

In the short term, looking forward to seeing him at dev. camp.

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