HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Kiprusoff - Availability & Asking Price/Offers

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-27-2012, 02:46 PM
  #51
Xelstyle
Registered User
 
Xelstyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Chair and a Desk
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,530
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hendog View Post
I posted this in another thread and it got some good traction
Flames run with a goalie tandem of Crawford & Irving sharing the work almost 50/50 I would say plus get a young center prospect which we desperately need
Hawks get their goalie that hopefully puts them over the top and doesn’t add a ton of cap since they are limited in their cap space

To CGY:
- Crawford (Cap hit $2.6M)
- Frolik (Cap hit $2.3M)
- McNeil
- 2nd in 2012

To CHI:
- Kipper (Cap hit $5.8M)
- 3rd in 2012
I'd do it with or without Frolik, though wouldn't complain if he was thrown in.

Xelstyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 02:48 PM
  #52
gdg9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 172
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
Kolanos is well over a PPG in the AHL. Different leagues my friend. Kadri has shown very little at the NHL level. He's small, soft and disinterested defensively. St. Louis and Nashville show what happens when everyone buys into a system, even if you're not very skilled. Ferland has more goals (46-35), more points (96-86), plays better defensively, it way more physical and competes harder than Kadri did at the same age. Not to mention he has shown upward progression every year. I live in Swift Current, so I get to watch a lot of Ferland. He impresses me more every game.
You really should get your facts straight...


The season after they each were drafted:
Ferland - 56GP, 23G, 33A, 56P
Kadri - 56GP, 35G, 58A, 93P

2nd season after each were drafted:
Ferland - 68GP, 47G, 49A, 96P
Kadri - PLAYED IN AHL & NHL; AHL - 44GP, 17G, 24A, 41P; NHL - 29GP, 3G, 9A, 12P

Ferland had a lower PPG in the second year after he was drafted than Kadri did in his first season after being drafted. In Kadri's second he was almost a PPG player in the AHL.

Again, not knocking Ferland. He seems like a good prospect, and a steal for a 5th round pick.
But your argument is extremely flawed... He is not the same level of prospect as Kadri... not even close.


Last edited by gdg9: 04-27-2012 at 02:55 PM.
gdg9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 02:50 PM
  #53
Grant
LL Genius
 
Grant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: London
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,790
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
Kolanos is well over a PPG in the AHL. Different leagues my friend. Kadri has shown very little at the NHL level. He's small, soft and disinterested defensively. St. Louis and Nashville show what happens when everyone buys into a system, even if you're not very skilled. Ferland has more goals (46-35), more points (96-86), plays better defensively, it way more physical and competes harder than Kadri did at the same age. Not to mention he has shown upward progression every year. I live in Swift Current, so I get to watch a lot of Ferland. He impresses me more every game.
That was before, he has changed that part of his game. 25 hits in 21 games for him in the NHL this year, there was a couple of monstrous hits as well. His defensive play still needs some improvement but is vastly better then it was before, note his +2 in a year were the leafs were outscored badly when even strength. I think he will be making the jump next year, new coach, new chance.

Grant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 02:58 PM
  #54
Double Dion
Jets fan 30/06/2013
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,268
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdg9 View Post
You really should get your facts straight...


The season after they each were drafted:
Ferland - 56GP, 23G, 33A, 56P
Kadri - 56GP, 35G, 58A, 93P

2nd season after each were drafted:
Ferland - 68GP, 47G, 49A, 96P
Kadri - PLAYED IN AHL & NHL; AHL - 44GP, 17G, 24A, 41P; NHL - 29GP, 3G, 9A, 12P

Ferland had a lower PPG in the second year after he was drafted than Kadri did in his first season after being drafted. In Kadri's second he was almost a PPG player in the AHL.

Again, not knocking Ferland. He seems like a good prospect, and a steal for a 5th round pick.
But your argument is extremely flawed... He is not the same level of prospect as Kadri... not even close.
I said same age. Ferland is a 92, Kadri is a 90. You're trying to compare players at different ages. Sven is a late birthday too this year and scored at a pace in the WHL not achieved by anyone his draft year since Joe Sakic. Ferland contributes in all areas anyways, not just on the scoresheet when you play him sheltered minutes.

Double Dion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 03:00 PM
  #55
Double Dion
Jets fan 30/06/2013
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,268
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant123 View Post
That was before, he has changed that part of his game. 25 hits in 21 games for him in the NHL this year, there was a couple of monstrous hits as well. His defensive play still needs some improvement but is vastly better then it was before, note his +2 in a year were the leafs were outscored badly when even strength. I think he will be making the jump next year, new coach, new chance.
I'm not saying Kadri is junk, just that I prefer Ferland. Guys like Kadri don't help you win in the western conference. Teams like Nashville and St. Louis show what you can do when you build through well-rounder team play and depth. I love Ferland's game and we don't have another guy like him in the system. Kadri is a lesser version of Baertschi.

Double Dion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 03:09 PM
  #56
gdg9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 172
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
I said same age. Ferland is a 92, Kadri is a 90. You're trying to compare players at different ages. Sven is a late birthday too this year and scored at a pace in the WHL not achieved by anyone his draft year since Joe Sakic. Ferland contributes in all areas anyways, not just on the scoresheet when you play him sheltered minutes.
Wow... so do we need to break it down into months? "From October to April Ferland did this... From May to Sept Kadri did that..."


Prospects are evaluated against their Draft Class... Do you think Yakupov's achievement's are somehow less than the other top prospects this year because he has a late '93 birthday as opposed to early '94?
Of course not!

That's how the hockey world works. Call it hockey years instead of Calendar years if it makes you feel better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haatley View Post
so tell me what you know about ferland?
we know kadri has been unable to succeed at the nhl lever despite numerous opportunities with pp time, top 6 role etc...

ferland has done nothing but improve. was recently named on hf's top 10 whl wingers http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...0_whl_wingers/
And Kadri was named the 21st best drafted prospect. In any league. At any position.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/hockey_...ects/?start=20

Again... not even close to the same caliber.

gdg9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 03:21 PM
  #57
Barney Gumble
Registered User
 
Barney Gumble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 19,896
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
I am higher than most on Irving and believe he will be ok and would prefer to target a young top 4 defenseman to help reduce his workload. It would be more of a retooling move but the end result is the same is get a young asset (or two) for an aging vet who only has a few years left.
Irving has less than 10 NHL games under his belt. I frankly don't see this as an option for the Flames for the upcoming season (either as a starting goalie or working in tandem with a solid veteran goalie). Seems like the Heat are going with Taylor in net for the AHL playoffs (add more to my thinking that he's not ready yet).

Barney Gumble is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 03:23 PM
  #58
Double Dion
Jets fan 30/06/2013
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,268
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdg9 View Post
Wow... so do we need to break it down into months? "From October to April Ferland did this... From May to Sept Kadri did that..."


Prospects are evaluated against their Draft Class... Do you think Yakupov's achievement's are somehow less than the other top prospects this year because he has a late '93 birthday as opposed to early '94?
Of course not!

That's how the hockey world works. Call it hockey years instead of Calendar years if it makes you feel better.



And Kadri was named the 21st best drafted prospect. In any league. At any position.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/hockey_...ects/?start=20

Again... not even close to the same caliber.
Glad you think so. You're welcome to keep him. I like the Chicago deal, don't like the Toronto deal. I'd take McNeil, Crawford and a 1st is light years better than the Leafs proposal. Kadri is so ridiculously overrated by Leaf fans it's ridiculous. I'd take Colborne or Blacker ahead of Kadri too. BTW, HF evaluates players based on their NHL readiness, not overall potential. I would hope a 21 year old taken in the early 1st round is more NHL ready than a 19 year old taken in the 5th round. Enjoy Kadri though!

EDIT: BTW, Kadri is at 38 in the latest rankings. Falling fast and it looks like HF agrees with me on his defensive game and physical weakness.


Last edited by Double Dion: 04-27-2012 at 03:29 PM.
Double Dion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 03:30 PM
  #59
Sam67
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 47
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdg9 View Post
You really should get your facts straight...


The season after they each were drafted:
Ferland - 56GP, 23G, 33A, 56P
Kadri - 56GP, 35G, 58A, 93P

2nd season after each were drafted:
Ferland - 68GP, 47G, 49A, 96P
Kadri - PLAYED IN AHL & NHL; AHL - 44GP, 17G, 24A, 41P; NHL - 29GP, 3G, 9A, 12P

Ferland had a lower PPG in the second year after he was drafted than Kadri did in his first season after being drafted. In Kadri's second he was almost a PPG player in the AHL.

Again, not knocking Ferland. He seems like a good prospect, and a steal for a 5th round pick.
But your argument is extremely flawed... He is not the same level of prospect as Kadri... not even close.

Ferland is shaping into a power forward role. Kadri is not. Plus he's been a pro for two years now, I think? Can't crack a full time position. Leafs have bent the Flames in several deals over the years, don't push your luck. If you want Kipper, pay the piper!
The Flames get to eat the cake this time.

Sam67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 03:36 PM
  #60
Liferleafer
RIP Mrs Doubtfire
 
Liferleafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 9,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam67 View Post
Ferland is shaping into a power forward role. Kadri is not. Plus he's been a pro for two years now, I think? Can't crack a full time position. Leafs have bent the Flames in several deals over the years, don't push your luck. If you want Kipper, pay the piper!The Flames get to eat the cake this time.
You will have to get in line. According to the Luongo thread, the Leafs are busy being bent over in that deal.

Liferleafer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 03:42 PM
  #61
gdg9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 172
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
EDIT: BTW, Kadri is at 38 in the latest rankings. Falling fast and it looks like HF agrees with me on his defensive game and physical weakness.

Just curious... What spot is Ferland on those latest rankings?

gdg9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 05:40 PM
  #62
CaptainCrunch67
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,855
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdg9 View Post
Kiprusoff + Ferland
for
Kadri + Franson + Lombardi

Flames add a mid-range prospect to balance out the "robbery"

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/michael_ferland
Taken by Flames in 5th round of 2010 draft.
Rugged power forward prospect who can score, plays rough, and is willing to drop the gloves when needed. Sounds like a Burke/Carlyle guy.
The Flames would pass on that deal. They are extremely high on Ferland.

Franson and Lombardi are not really interesting and more throw ins then anything else, Kadri isn't enough to get both Kipper and Ferland.

I'm really unsure of Kadri, he's starting to get a bit of that tough to make the jump from the AHL stink to him.

CaptainCrunch67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 08:07 PM
  #63
Haatley
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,104
vCash: 681
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdg9 View Post
Wow... so do we need to break it down into months? "From October to April Ferland did this... From May to Sept Kadri did that..."


Prospects are evaluated against their Draft Class... Do you think Yakupov's achievement's are somehow less than the other top prospects this year because he has a late '93 birthday as opposed to early '94?
Of course not!

That's how the hockey world works. Call it hockey years instead of Calendar years if it makes you feel better.



And Kadri was named the 21st best drafted prospect. In any league. At any position.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/hockey_...ects/?start=20

Again... not even close to the same caliber.
kadri has dropped to 38 check the new top 50. his stock is falling.ferland is rising.

kadri is a bust

Haatley is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 08:08 PM
  #64
SoupNazi
Global Moderator
No Soup for You!!!
 
SoupNazi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Kramerica Industries
Country: Argentina
Posts: 16,822
vCash: 545
Seems like there might be as many sellers as buyers for goalies this summer.

SoupNazi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 08:09 PM
  #65
TheHudlinator
Registered User
 
TheHudlinator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Victoria,BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,837
vCash: 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haatley View Post
kadri has dropped to 38 check the new top 50. his stock is falling.ferland is rising.

kadri is a bust
at 22 and almost a ppg in the ahl?

TheHudlinator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 08:57 PM
  #66
Medium Rare*
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,065
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
Tsn has talked about it as has CBC (not great sources) I know ownership is anti rebuild but I get the feeling that one of the core players will be moved again and I think it is easier to convince the owners to move Kipper than Iginla.
so its more speculation than rumor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gdg9 View Post
That is flat out ridiculous...



It's easy to improve every year when you keep growing physically and maturing, and your average opponents don't. (i.e. playing over-age in the CHL against teenagers as opposed to taking the next step to the AHL playing against men).

Not a knock against Ferland, just reality.
it was definitely a ridiculous statement, but Ferland was not an overager this year

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Irving has less than 10 NHL games under his belt. I frankly don't see this as an option for the Flames for the upcoming season (either as a starting goalie or working in tandem with a solid veteran goalie). Seems like the Heat are going with Taylor in net for the AHL playoffs (add more to my thinking that he's not ready yet).
Peter Mahaer apparently made comments that its believed the Flames may be able to get Ramo out of the final year of his contract and trying to bring him to the NHL for next season.

While Irving wouldn't be ready to start 55+ games as a regular starter, i think that between he and Ramo there is a decent chance they could platoon very well.

Medium Rare* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 09:04 PM
  #67
SaskOil*
u mad
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Saskabush
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,688
vCash: 500

Kipper
glencross


Luongo
Tanev
+1st

SaskOil* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 09:06 PM
  #68
TheHudlinator
Registered User
 
TheHudlinator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Victoria,BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,837
vCash: 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medium Rare View Post
so its more speculation than rumor?
They are more of the same thing as if anyone was linked to it from the flames they would lose their jobs immediately. Either way there is lots speculation that he could be available.

TheHudlinator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 09:07 PM
  #69
TheHudlinator
Registered User
 
TheHudlinator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Victoria,BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,837
vCash: 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaskOil View Post

Kipper
glencross


Luongo
Tanev
+1st
I would pass losing GlenX makes a hole that can't be filled by anyone in FA.

TheHudlinator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 09:09 PM
  #70
Svensational
THANK YOU IGGY
 
Svensational's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: C OF RED
Country: Romania
Posts: 1,031
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaskOil View Post

Kipper
glencross


Luongo
Tanev
+1st
No way. Don't want him on this team with his contract. This would be the type of move that would move us backwards.

Svensational is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 09:09 PM
  #71
Grant
LL Genius
 
Grant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: London
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,790
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaskOil View Post

Kipper
glencross


Luongo
Tanev
+1st
Vancouver would say no because that doesn't solve the goalie situation. That would still cause them to have 10m tied up in net.

Grant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 09:10 PM
  #72
Janks
Pope Janks
 
Janks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,311
vCash: 1310
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaskOil View Post

Kipper
glencross


Luongo
Tanev
+1st

No.

We don't trade our goalie, in attempts to rebuild, to pick up a goalie of similar skill but a basket case. We also don't trade with our divisional rival. And we surely don't lose Glenny.

If Van wants Kipper, it would be along the lines of Schroeder.

Janks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 09:31 PM
  #73
DoubleJ96
Registered User
 
DoubleJ96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 390
vCash: 500
I don't see the point of trading Kipper if the Flames aren't also trading Iginla. I don't think Irving is ready to take over and Karlsson hasn't been very good. If they trade Kipper then there is even less chance that they make the playoffs so then why trade Kipper when it seems clear the owners aren't ready for a rebuild yet?

DoubleJ96 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 10:57 PM
  #74
Puckgenius*
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: At the rink
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,558
vCash: 500
mcNeil isnt even that good

Puckgenius* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2012, 11:45 PM
  #75
Cephalusc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 758
vCash: 500
I can't believe how little some Flames fans are asking back for Kiprusoff. Without Kipper, the Flames would have been one of the worst teams in the league.

Franson and Kadri? Really? That package could maybe return a 2nd line forward, not one of the best goalies in the league on a nice contract.

The Hawks offer is a little more appealing, just because the Flames really need a goalie back if Kipper is dealt. Crawford is decent and could split time with Irving. That being said, I'd expect something better than McNeil/2nd in addition to Crawford. McNeil didn't show much in his last year of junior hockey.

Cephalusc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:53 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.