Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
Sure Loungo has a huge contract, but he does have at least 6 good years in him. That is the Oilers window for winning a cup. If properly managed him and dubynk could split the year. 50/32. The Oilers also gain a great 2-way center with size and the capabilities of putting up 20-40 goals. The Oilers are still strong on the rw with Eberle and Hemsky. They fill some major holes allowing us to trade Gagner for defence help or sign Shultz. IMO.....Kesler, Loungo, Shultz, Schenn (trade for gagner) is better then Yakupov and Shultz.
Luongo has proven he doesn't have what it takes in the net come big game time. /endofstory.
A player who was 10 years younger, and didn't have a bad contract.
Plus goalies have less value.
We might be willing to add a little, Harti needs to stay. Expendable Players/prospects/picks: Gagner, Jones, Eager, Belanger, C Hamilton, Any picks but 1sts.
Younger, but when you consider the recourse to not trading his rights were to let him walk...kinda lights a fire under the butt of a GM to move him.
I don't know about that per se. I'd say proven goalie beats an unproven prospect, but that's just me.
If Harti stays, and I know what he contributes but was just an example, Gagner, Jones, Belanger and Hamilton are all decent, but not the kind of impact we'd be looking for as an add on. Eager is right out the window I think, but that kind of physicality without breaking our cameras is what we're looking for As for picks, well we aren't looking for futures. The first works because it's the first over all....RHN, Hall, Stamkos, Taveres....they all contributed right away. I don't know of too many 2nd rounders that do that immeadiately.
Our 2nd line sucked in the playoffs. The solution isn't trading away our 3rd best forward.
And you have it backwards. Kesler = Reward. Yakupov = Risk.
I don't have it backwards at all.
Our 2nd line was fine before AV started messing things up and line juggling.
Booth - Kesler - Higgens was tearing it up middle of the season.
The Amex line is our 2nd line. There is no reason whatsoever for Higgens to be on the 3rd line.
Yakupov by all accounts is a sure thing, he could be the next stamkos, and yes, he could be the next daigle. Yakupov has stated that his favourite team is the Canucks. Now, I don't know about you, but if I happened to be drafted by my favourite team in any sport, I'm gonna give it an extra 10% because I actually enjoy playing there.
Kesler is now, in my eyes, damaged goods. Injured for an extended period of time last year, requiring off-season surgury. Shoulder injury for 2 months while he was playing on it this year. I give full marks for his toughness. But playing on injuries are going to take their toll on him.
OP is an Edmonton fan, if Edmonton offers this, as Vancouver I take it.
If Yakupov is a huge risk, no problem, trade down with Columbus for their #2 and snag another peice in the process and draft Murray. The options are endless if you're holding onto the 1st overall pick as a President's trophy team.
Lets not kid ourselves and think Kesler can ever score 40 goals again. He's an amazing two way forward, he's not the goal scorer than Dank is. and due to his shoulder and hip being injured in successive seasons, Im gonna say he's lucky if he scores 30 again.
I'm not exactly sure why so many people (fans) are so concerned about length. How exactly does Luongo's contract length hurt you as a fan? The number is 5.33m It's not 10 years, it's not 10 million/yr it's 5.33m that's your magic number to focus on.
Luongo, once traded, will NO LONGER HAVE A NTC. He NEVER HAD A NMC. Once the NTC has been waived, it's waived for the length of the contract. Meaning, he can now be traded to any team without his consent.
EVeryone knows Luongo is probably going to play for another 6 years and then call it quits. So you're looking at Luongo, an elite goaltender, again by all acounts (Insiders, people who actually have sources in the league) for 5.33 million over 6 years.
That's pretty darn reasonable. If you don't like his performance, or you're scared about his cap after 6 years, bury him in the minors. If someone takes him off your hands, great, cap hit becomes 2.67m . If no one takes him off your hands then cap hit becomes 0.
The owner is the only person who should be worried about length. If Luongo helps your team make the playoffs, anything can happen. He COULD catch fire and win it all. But the only is made back from the owner's point of view if Luongo gets you into the post season. He's averaged 37 wins for the last 7 years. That's 74 points. 74 points he can get you. you probably need 95 to get into the playoffs. You're telling me, the rest of your team combined can't get 21 points if your Goalie is guaranteed 74? Come on.
Last edited by Holden Caulfield: 04-27-2012 at 07:16 PM.
Reason: qdp
This isn't anywhere near to being close for the Oilers - the sole reason being Luongo's contract.
The Horcoff/Khabi contracts are terrible, but they aren't on the same level as the Luongo contract. Khabibulin's runs out in 2013...Horcoff's runs out in 2015...Luongo's runs out in 2022.
If Luongo can play at an elite level until he's 40, then the deal would be reasonable, but I highly doubt he will.
Only works for oilers if we can dump horcoff...you could have gagner as well i suppose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogburn
Younger, but when you consider the recourse to not trading his rights were to let him walk...kinda lights a fire under the butt of a GM to move him.
I don't know about that per se. I'd say proven goalie beats an unproven prospect, but that's just me.
If Harti stays, and I know what he contributes but was just an example, Gagner, Jones, Belanger and Hamilton are all decent, but not the kind of impact we'd be looking for as an add on. Eager is right out the window I think, but that kind of physicality without breaking our cameras is what we're looking for As for picks, well we aren't looking for futures. The first works because it's the first over all....RHN, Hall, Stamkos, Taveres....they all contributed right away. I don't know of too many 2nd rounders that do that immeadiately.
How would they lose his rights? he was an rfa, the trade took place in September after a summer of other teams having the opportunity to OS him. He wasn't an unproven prospect either, he had played 3 seasons, in his last scoring 36G.
As for your comments Hartikainen is anything from a finished product who can contribute impactfully to a contender today, i would guess most people would take Kassian over him as a very similar player type.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vorkosh
Luongo does have positive trade value.
I'm not exactly sure why so many people (fans) are so concerned about length. How exactly does Luongo's contract length hurt you as a fan? The number is 5.33m It's not 10 years, it's not 10 million/yr it's 5.33m that's your magic number to focus on.
Luongo, once traded, will NO LONGER HAVE A NTC. He NEVER HAD A NMC. Once the NTC has been waived, it's waived for the length of the contract. Meaning, he can now be traded to any team without his consent.
EVeryone knows Luongo is probably going to play for another 6 years and then call it quits. So you're looking at Luongo, an elite goaltender, again by all acounts (Insiders, people who actually have sources in the league) for 5.33 million over 6 years.
That's pretty darn reasonable. If you don't like his performance, or you're scared about his cap after 6 years, bury him in the minors. If someone takes him off your hands, great, cap hit becomes 2.67m . If no one takes him off your hands then cap hit becomes 0.
The owner is the only person who should be worried about length. If Luongo helps your team make the playoffs, anything can happen. He COULD catch fire and win it all. But the only is made back from the owner's point of view if Luongo gets you into the post season. He's averaged 37 wins for the last 7 years. That's 74 points. 74 points he can get you. you probably need 95 to get into the playoffs. You're telling me, the rest of your team combined can't get 21 points if your Goalie is guaranteed 74? Come on.
He does have positive value, but its not that much, the contract is not a great one, and he is on the downside of his career. I'd say a late 1st.
The worry with the contract is what if he declines sharply and doesn't retire right away.
How would they lose his rights? he was an rfa, the trade took place in September after a summer of other teams having the opportunity to OS him. He wasn't an unproven prospect either, he had played 3 seasons, in his last scoring 36G.
As for your comments Hartikainen is anything from a finished product who can contribute impactfully to a contender today, i would guess most people would take Kassian over him as a very similar player type.
Really? Well I seem out of it, I thought it was his last ELC year, but his first playing with them. Either way then...also, they got 2 picks, of undeterminable position too now that I think about it. Anyway, seems baseless to argue that Kessel = Luongo anyway.
Hartikainen, when I've seen him play against us, or the occasional Oilers game I catch otherwise, seems like a more physical Jannik Hansen then a Kassian type player. I realize he wouldn't be a "finished" project, but I thought he could definitely contribute as a 3/4th line guy. I bow to your assessment though.
Only works for oilers if we can dump horcoff...you could have gagner as well i suppose.
How would they lose his rights? he was an rfa, the trade took place in September after a summer of other teams having the opportunity to OS him. He wasn't an unproven prospect either, he had played 3 seasons, in his last scoring 36G.
As for your comments Hartikainen is anything from a finished product who can contribute impactfully to a contender today, i would guess most people would take Kassian over him as a very similar player type.
He does have positive value, but its not that much, the contract is not a great one, and he is on the downside of his career. I'd say a late 1st.
The worry with the contract is what if he declines sharply and doesn't retire right away.
Trade him? Remember now, no more NTC, Luongo no longer gets any say. Waive him? There are always options if he declines sharply.
He faced a crap ton of shots in Florida, played a lot of games, maintained his great play.
He faced a decent number of shots in Vancouver, played a lot of games, arguable got better. He is the best goaltender Vancouver has EVER had in 42 years. Better than King Richard, Better than Kirk Mclean. The numbers do not lie
He has played in a crap ton of games every season and has been able to come back from injuries.
Late 1st and a blue chip prospect is Luongo's value on it's own. It is not very often an elite goaltender (and yes, Luongo is an Elite goaltender) is up on the blocks.
Luongo has proven he doesn't have what it takes in the net come big game time. /endofstory.
If an Olympic Gold Medal, two shoutouts in the Stanley Cup finals, two QMJHL titles, coming in cold to help Canada win the World Cup in 2004 (semis), and two World Championship golds isn't enough to show that he can handle pressure, what goalie would you say has shown that they can?
Short of getting 4 shutouts in the Stanley Cup finals what would Luongo need to do to show you that he can handle pressure?
The misconception with Luongo is that he can not handle pressure.
He actually can, the problem is, in back to back years, he got chewed up by Chicago.
If Lundqvist lets in 8 goals in a game, people say that he had a bad game and they move on.
When Luongo let in 8 goals in a game, people said that he had a bad game, only problem and difference here is that Luongo has let 7/8 goals in a game quite a few times, in a short amount of time.
People who aren't fans of Vancouver will harp on the contract, the money, the bad games, the misconception that Luongo will let in 8 goals every series in the playoffs. In short, they see the bad in Luongo.
People who are fans of Vancouver will say that he's an elite goalie, he steals games, etc etc
There is no objective view , people are going to be biased one way or another, it's just the nature of the beast
As for picks, well we aren't looking for futures. The first works because it's the first over all....RHN, Hall, Stamkos, Taveres....they all contributed right away. I don't know of too many 2nd rounders that do that immeadiately.
