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Old
04-29-2012, 11:32 PM
  #101
Jules Winnfield
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Have to admit, this made me chuckle...

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04-30-2012, 12:53 AM
  #102
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I don't know if Orpik can be defended that way, suggesting most of the time it's not his fault. The eyeball test suggests he's been a bad defensive defenseman for some time.
The eyeball test indicts everybody but Niskanen in the past playoff series. He's not the best player on that blueline.

And yeah, when Orpik gets caught all alone between two guys, neither of which he can take (which happened a lot this year), that's someone else's fault, even if he's the one who ends up looking dumb.

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04-30-2012, 12:57 AM
  #103
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Well, we're ALMOST on the same page Ziggy. I mean, depends on the changes wanted. I think some kind of coaching move could help us at this time. The defense definitely needs an overall. And I'd certainly look at changes in goal.

I agree that only Philly could have exposed us the way they did. BUT, on the other hand, the Flyers aren't going away. We have to deal with them yearly, so this is an issue going forward.
Nevermind the worst team in the East treating us like roadkill at the end of the season but I think the Pens would have had trouble with the Devils, Sens, Caps and maybe the Bruins.

Every other team in the East has gotten better since 09. The Pens have added parts but have lost their structure and just aren't as good as some of the other teams.

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04-30-2012, 07:17 AM
  #104
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Nevermind the worst team in the East treating us like roadkill at the end of the season but I think the Pens would have had trouble with the Devils, Sens, Caps and maybe the Bruins.

Every other team in the East has gotten better since 09. The Pens have added parts but have lost their structure and just aren't as good as some of the other teams.
Nonsense. We have the best roster in the league. Our defenders just aren't giving us a good mix and our coach believes tactic equals concept - ie. that it is static.

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04-30-2012, 07:34 AM
  #105
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For me, easily Fleury. His high-pitched voice and idiotic demeanor have always rubbed me the wrong way.

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04-30-2012, 09:00 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
The eyeball test indicts everybody but Niskanen in the past playoff series. He's not the best player on that blueline.

And yeah, when Orpik gets caught all alone between two guys, neither of which he can take (which happened a lot this year), that's someone else's fault, even if he's the one who ends up looking dumb.
Problem is, Orpik's biggest problem wasn't getting left alone between two guys in the playoffs. He was constantly backing in too far on the rush, chasing and being overagressive on the PK, and just losing himself positionally in the defensive zone on a regular basis. I'm not advocating getting rid of him the way some of the overzealous posters on here are, but to insinuate that somehow Orpik's bad play was due to being left on an island by other players is false. It happened on a couple of plays, but those aren't the plays people are referring to when they call him out for being awful.

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04-30-2012, 09:36 AM
  #107
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First, let me just say that Asham is infinity times the hockey player that Gillies is. But here is how they are comparable:

4th liners hitting a rookie forward up high because they didn't like it when their teammate was hit. Then they hit the rookie in the head while he was on the ice. What Gillies did was much, much worse, but I would still say they're comparable.

I'd like Asham back for next season, because he does bring skill and toughness to the 4th line. However, what he did was idiotic and went against what Lemieux (the guy who signs Asham's paychecks) was so adamantly opposed to happening in hockey. Leave what you learned from the Flyers franchise in Philly, you're playing for the Penguins now.
No they are not comparable.

Arron Asham doesn't like Schenn, When that fight happened after Vitale hit Briere, Asham wanted Schenn, he had him on the ice, then went to him on the bench, Schenn was doing something he didn't like.

Martin was engaged with another player and Schenn took a run at him and concussed him and Asham went over and cross checked him in the chest, he dove and Asham gave him one (I will assume) light punch to the back of the head because it didn't look like a solid punch. Then went off the ice.

Gillies? Tangradi played the puck, moved it to the corner and standing their with nobody around him, stuck out his elbow and just went at Tangradi's head. and as Tangradi was leaning down about to go onto the ice, Trevor Gillies dropped his gloves and continued punching.

I don't see how you think these two are comparable, the only thing those to incidents have in common is they are idiotic. But that's it, Asham gave him one light punch to the back of the head with his glove on after a crosscheck that Schenn dove to the ice for. Gillies elbowed Tangradi in the head skating pretty fast then proceeded to drop his gloves and punch Tangradi with his bare hands after he already hit him in the head.

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Old
04-30-2012, 09:39 AM
  #108
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Oh and to the people saying stuff about Brooks Orpik and how all he does is call out the team. I said this earlier and I will say it again, watch his interviews, when he talks about team play he says the words "we" and "I" not "they or "them"

Nothing wrong with Orpik, always been a solid D man for the Penguins, now everyone wants him kicked to the curb because of one bad season, it's a joke.

I'm in no way a Orpik fanboy, my username was just an idea for me, I like Orpik, but I'm not some huge Orpik fanboy, I like him a lot as a player and I want the Pens to keep him because there's no need to get rid of your only top 4 physical D man.

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04-30-2012, 09:55 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Dupree13 View Post
For me, easily Fleury. His high-pitched voice and idiotic demeanor have always rubbed me the wrong way.
Whatchu talkin' bout Willis?

You sure you aren't talking about Tom Barrasso???

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Old
04-30-2012, 10:08 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by MetalheadPenguinsFan View Post
Whatchu talkin' bout Willis?

You sure you aren't talking about Tom Barrasso???
Agreed. If being accomodating and having an agreeable disposition is idiotic, than i wish more people were idiots.

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04-30-2012, 10:24 AM
  #111
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Perhaps goofy would have been a better word. Ideally I want a goalie who is stone faced and oozes confidence and composure. Not one who comes off like an awkward 14 year old going through puberty.

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04-30-2012, 10:25 AM
  #112
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Yeah, I don't think Fleury is an idiot. He has a goofball personality, but he doesn't come across as an idiot to me. The only guy on the team that genuinely comes across as kind of dumb is TK. He answers every question, regardless of what it is, with "Gotta get pucks deep". Nice guy, but I just think he's not very bright.

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04-30-2012, 10:29 AM
  #113
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I have to go with Paul Martin. It's frustrating to dissect what happened to our defense from last year to this year, but it has to be the system. Other coaches now know what we're doing and the better ones(Laviolette) are game-planning for it. If we're going to stick with this defensive system, or one close to it, Martin needs to go. Cap-hit wise, Martin needs to go.

As for people calling out Lovejoy, I seriously think he'll be, at best, the 7th man next year. There's no way Depres doesn't make the team out of camp next year, given his performance in the playoffs as a rookie. So, Lovejoy won't be blocking Depres' development.

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04-30-2012, 10:34 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Dupree13 View Post
Perhaps goofy would have been a better word. Ideally I want a goalie who is stone faced and oozes confidence and composure. Not one who comes off like an awkward 14 year old going through puberty.
I get a different take from Fleury's personality than you do. I think he's just a more relaxed, personable guy than most goalies are. And i don't necessarily equate being stonefaced and reticent with confidence, it's just a personality type and as often as not gives no indication of the mental fortitude of the player in question.

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04-30-2012, 11:07 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by gopens66 View Post
I have to go with Paul Martin. It's frustrating to dissect what happened to our defense from last year to this year, but it has to be the system. Other coaches now know what we're doing and the better ones(Laviolette) are game-planning for it. If we're going to stick with this defensive system, or one close to it, Martin needs to go. Cap-hit wise, Martin needs to go.

As for people calling out Lovejoy, I seriously think he'll be, at best, the 7th man next year. There's no way Depres doesn't make the team out of camp next year, given his performance in the playoffs as a rookie. So, Lovejoy won't be blocking Depres' development.
If Strait isn't on the team next year and Lovejoy is, then Lovejoy's still blocking somebody better than him.

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04-30-2012, 11:57 AM
  #116
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Problem is, Orpik's biggest problem wasn't getting left alone between two guys in the playoffs. He was constantly backing in too far on the rush
That was a systemic thing. Flyers were hitting the line 3 and 4 strong at full speed without being subject to backpressure. A proper gap cannot be maintained under those circumstances by Orpik or by anybody. Nor can he hold the line there. That's a big time example of how Orpik looking bad can be someone else's fault.

Quote:
chasing and being overagressive on the PK, and just losing himself positionally in the defensive zone on a regular basis. I'm not advocating getting rid of him the way some of the overzealous posters on here are, but to insinuate that somehow Orpik's bad play was due to being left on an island by other players is false. It happened on a couple of plays, but those aren't the plays people are referring to when they call him out for being awful.
But everything you listed tends to be part of a cascade of failures, Orpik's failures being at the end of that cascade and frequently forced by circumstance. In assessing who's responsible for what, I'm usually looking for who knocked the boulder down the hill, not which house it hit when it got to the bottoom. Orpik is hardly ever the guy who screws something up and gets everyone else in hot water.

My own concern with him is he's lost a stride, not any of this stuff.

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04-30-2012, 12:06 PM
  #117
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Fleury needs to take things more seriously & the locker room atmosphere isn't helping. This "he's at his best when he's having fun" thing is garbage. The compete level in Brodeur, Thomas, Smith ect... these guys hate to lose. Fleury did at one time as well. Hopefully this series smack him back into reality.

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04-30-2012, 01:09 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Dread Pirate Roberts View Post
If Strait isn't on the team next year and Lovejoy is, then Lovejoy's still blocking somebody better than him.
1. Its probably no coincidence Lovejoy had his worst year and his most injured year, at the same time. A broken wrist early in the year and then a partially torn acl will hinder anyone. Just look at how grants wrist injury killed his year last season. If anything Benny deserves credit for playing in the playoffs two weeks into a 4 week recovery period. It should tell you something knowing they chose a gimpy Lovejoy for a few games over a healthy strait or despres in the playoffs. Id certainly be willing to bet his benching in the playoffs had more to do with his knee than one bad turnover.

2. How can so many of you keep acting like strait has some great value over Lovejoy? You all do realize Lovejoy was more successful and used in more roles in wbs, including as a shutdown defender. And he was/is more successful thus far into his NHL career. Plus 22 with 25 points in your first 98 NHL games, while only being a minus once, and a -1 at that, in any pro season you've ever played isn't a random fluke.

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04-30-2012, 01:19 PM
  #119
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tangradi.

i dont really have a great reason as to why, since i dont glue my eyes to the tv for every second of every game of every season he has played in. but from what i have seen he doesnt really seem to do much. i dont get how he is a top prospect only having 5 points in 40 nhl games over 3 seasons and is a forward.

dont get me wrong, i do watch almost every pens game but i feel that because i cant remember much of what he has done, let alone when he actually plays, just goes to show, at least to me that he isnt any good

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04-30-2012, 01:56 PM
  #120
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1. Its probably no coincidence Lovejoy had his worst year and his most injured year, at the same time. A broken wrist early in the year and then a partially torn acl will hinder anyone. Just look at how grants wrist injury killed his year last season. If anything Benny deserves credit for playing in the playoffs two weeks into a 4 week recovery period. It should tell you something knowing they chose a gimpy Lovejoy for a few games over a healthy strait or despres in the playoffs. Id certainly be willing to bet his benching in the playoffs had more to do with his knee than one bad turnover.

2. How can so many of you keep acting like strait has some great value over Lovejoy? You all do realize Lovejoy was more successful and used in more roles in wbs, including as a shutdown defender. And he was/is more successful thus far into his NHL career. Plus 22 with 25 points in your first 98 NHL games, while only being a minus once, and a -1 at that, in any pro season you've ever played isn't a random fluke.
Lovejoy has been & will always be a good skater with a big body who can't get the puck out of his own zone. He's had trouble making simple plays since the day he stepped onto the ice in Pittsburgh.

Mean while Strait is positionally sound, mobile, un-flashy defender that gets the job done. They are on two different levels when it comes to hockey IQ.

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04-30-2012, 02:07 PM
  #121
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Yeah, I don't think Fleury is an idiot. He has a goofball personality, but he doesn't come across as an idiot to me. The only guy on the team that genuinely comes across as kind of dumb is TK. He answers every question, regardless of what it is, with "Gotta get pucks deep". Nice guy, but I just think he's not very bright.
I think just some people are more comfortable when interviewed in front of a camera than others. at leased when your playing hockey your in your element.

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04-30-2012, 02:25 PM
  #122
Uncle Jorgi
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That was a systemic thing. Flyers were hitting the line 3 and 4 strong at full speed without being subject to backpressure. A proper gap cannot be maintained under those circumstances by Orpik or by anybody. Nor can he hold the line there. That's a big time example of how Orpik looking bad can be someone else's fault.



But everything you listed tends to be part of a cascade of failures, Orpik's failures being at the end of that cascade and frequently forced by circumstance. In assessing who's responsible for what, I'm usually looking for who knocked the boulder down the hill, not which house it hit when it got to the bottoom. Orpik is hardly ever the guy who screws something up and gets everyone else in hot water.

My own concern with him is he's lost a stride, not any of this stuff.
Except you're ignoring a lot to validate your point. Orpik wasn't backing in only when there wasn't back pressure, that's completely false. There were many instances of him backing in on a counter-attack with one player leading the charge, when both he and his defensive partner were in position. And when the puck is at the point on the PP and the PK forward is high in the shooting lane, and Orpik is behind him almost at the faceoff dot instead of below the circle ready to guard the cross crease pass if it's cycled back low or battle in front to clear any rebounds, he's out of position at his own behest. Too many times our PK failed in the postseason, and it wasn't just everyone else ******** the bed. He was lost positionally and very unfocused reading the play a large portion of the time. It doesn't make him the devil or any more responsible for the outcome than a lot of players, but it surely doesn't mean he played well.

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04-30-2012, 02:32 PM
  #123
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Lovejoy has been & will always be a good skater with a big body who can't get the puck out of his own zone. He's had trouble making simple plays since the day he stepped onto the ice in Pittsburgh.

Mean while Strait is positionally sound, mobile, un-flashy defender that gets the job done. They are on two different levels when it comes to hockey IQ.
Lovejoy is a huge culprit when it comes to people hating on the way DB wants his defense to activate in the offensive zone. People want to look at his poorly timed pinches and the times when he ends up in front of the other team's net with 3 forwards already low in the zone, and they want to believe it's the way Bylsma wants his defenseman to play. The truth is DB wants his defenseman to be aggressive, but intelligently so.

Lovejoy seems to have that Kendrell Bell attitude of "Whenever i don't know what to do, i'm just gonna rush the QB". When in doubt, he goes all in. He spends too much time trying to make something happen, and not enough time trying to keep something bad from happening as a result.

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04-30-2012, 02:45 PM
  #124
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I think its time to part ways with (in order):

1. Asham
2. Martin
3. Park
4. Lovejoy
5. Adams

I have no problem with the last 3, but it's time for some younger/talented guys like Strait, Despres, Tangradi, and Jeffrey to get regular NHL time, not to mention clear room in the AHL for Bennett and Morrow.

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04-30-2012, 03:00 PM
  #125
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TK. He's predictable, almost too predictable. He does tries that stupid wraparound shot at least once a game, which I think every NHL, AHL, and ECHL team can see it coming 3 seconds before he tries to shoot. He rarely passes. The only time he does pass is when he's getting mugged by two defenders along the boards and the puck jumps off of his stick. If he does get a chance to get open for a shot, he shoots everything into the goalie's chest protector. I'm not saying he should be a 40 goal/90 point player, but I keep waiting for "TK's big year". For as "terrible" as Paul Martin is, he finished only 6 points behind Kennedy. Hopefully they move "Little Tiger" at the draft for a low pick (and yes, I hate that nickname).

All-timers? Add Barrasso to the list, and bring in Chris Tamer as an honorable mention.

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