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Granlund2Pulkkinen's Top 50 NHL Prospects

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Old
04-28-2012, 10:59 PM
  #76
scoutman1
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personally I would have Coyle in the top ten on this one, there is not a player outside of the NHL as ready as he is, and personally I think he has the talent to be an NHL star in the making...size, physical, aggressive, fast, great hands, soft hands in front, very good passer, two way, smart, good shot, he does it all.

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04-28-2012, 11:12 PM
  #77
MBauer
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No Nyquist? hes without a doubt the wings second best prospect.

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04-28-2012, 11:23 PM
  #78
The Saurus
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I always wonder how people like G2P, who is rather young, can find the time to watch each and every player on his list enough to rank them from 1 to 50.

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04-28-2012, 11:24 PM
  #79
Granlund2Pulkkinen*
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
I always wonder how people like G2P, who is rather young, can find the time to watch each and every player on his list enough to rank them from 1 to 50.
Nobody has seen every person on the list.

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04-28-2012, 11:29 PM
  #80
The Saurus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granlund2Pulkkinen View Post
Nobody has seen every person on the list.
Then why post a top 50 list? What purpose does a list in which you haven't seen 75% of the players play, serve? This is something that should be left to experts such as Bobby Mac and various scouting services that have seen all players enough to post a comprehensive list.

Seems pointless, IMO.

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04-28-2012, 11:30 PM
  #81
Smallz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granlund2Pulkkinen View Post
Nobody has seen every person on the list.
Just for fun could you name some HMs that just missed the cut at making your top 50?

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04-28-2012, 11:30 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
I always wonder how people like G2P, who is rather young, can find the time to watch each and every player on his list enough to rank them from 1 to 50.
LOL...yeah sure beats the Leafs who only seem to scout the NCAA.

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04-28-2012, 11:33 PM
  #83
Norm MacDonald
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Great list. It's like building a bridge to nowhere.

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Old
04-28-2012, 11:36 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallz View Post
Just for fun could you name some HMs that just missed the cut at making your top 50?
Off the top of my head:
Merrill, I had Nyquist but bumped him out, Palmieri, Ashton was there but bumped him out in editing, J.T. Miller, David Savard, Jared Tinordi, Joey Hishon, Sami Vatanen, Zac Dalpe

There's 10

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Old
04-29-2012, 12:18 AM
  #85
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Better job than I could have done.

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Old
04-29-2012, 12:58 PM
  #86
InjuredChoker
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Nice list. Can't agree 100% with everything but ask a list from 100 people and you see 1000 different lists.

Question; Did you rank them for potential or how good they are now or both?

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04-29-2012, 12:59 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
Nice list. Can't agree 100% with everything but ask a list from 100 people and you see 1000 different lists.

Question; Did you rank them for potential or how good they are now or both?
Mixture of NHL Readiness and Potential.

Essentially who has the most potential and will actually make something of it

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Old
04-29-2012, 01:17 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granlund2Pulkkinen View Post
Mixture of NHL Readiness and Potential.

Essentially who has the most potential and will actually make something of it
Got it, thanks for a very fast answer .

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Old
04-29-2012, 02:29 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoutman1 View Post
personally I would have Coyle in the top ten on this one, there is not a player outside of the NHL as ready as he is
I don't think this should be a big factor in who is and isn't a top prospect. If it was then you could make an argument for alot of 22 year old AHLers being high on the list

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Old
04-29-2012, 02:32 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
I don't think this should be a big factor in who is and isn't a top prospect. If it was then you could make an argument for alot of 22 year old AHLers being high on the list
Good thing he's not a 22 year old playing in the AHL right?

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Old
04-29-2012, 02:36 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
Then why post a top 50 list? What purpose does a list in which you haven't seen 75% of the players play, serve? This is something that should be left to experts such as Bobby Mac and various scouting services that have seen all players enough to post a comprehensive list.

Seems pointless, IMO.
You dont have to read it....

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Old
04-29-2012, 04:11 PM
  #92
kiluj
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What about Galiev? He looks very good so far.

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Old
04-29-2012, 04:38 PM
  #93
scoutman1
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Originally Posted by kiluj View Post
What about Galiev? He looks very good so far.
there would be no way he is in the top 50...at best I think he will be a 3rd line NHL player...to watch his game you have to question his offense at the next level....his speed is great though.......

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04-29-2012, 04:48 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoutman1 View Post
there would be no way he is in the top 50...at best I think he will be a 3rd line NHL player...to watch his game you have to question his offense at the next level....his speed is great though.......
Not even. Top 6 or bust.

I can't see him being on a third or even fourth line like you said.

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Old
04-29-2012, 04:59 PM
  #95
struckbyaparkedcar
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I'm curious how far away Mark Pysyk is from making this list with the season he and the Oil Kings are having...

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Old
04-29-2012, 05:12 PM
  #96
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Good list, I like this one a lot better than HF's list this year.

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Old
04-29-2012, 05:25 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by wilco5886 View Post
I'll openly admit I'm a Blues fan and have some bias towards Tarasenko, but I really don't see how Kuznetsov is higher than him. Only explanation I have seen offered is that Tarasenko is more "physically developed" and by implication doesn't have as much room to improve relative to Kuznetsov. But you could just as easily imply that Tarasenko has worked harder in order to get into the physical shape he is in and thus, is more likely to reach or exceed his "potential."

Concerns about coming to the NHL (if this is taken into account) also swing in Tarasenko's favor as there's been more signs of Kuznetsov's willingness to stay (I'm not saying he will).

All the objective/statistical evidence favors Tarasenko. Is this ranking based purely on best possible scenario concerning potential (ie. HF's number rank but no letter)? If so, then that is a valid explanation; if not, I can't agree that Kuznetsov is #1 (if anything its a toss up b/w Tarasenko and Granlund).
First, don't play that hard work card. I don't know why people around here think that a lanky, skilled Russian forward automatically has work ethic issues, but Kuznetsov is the kid who sneaks away to ride the stationary bike before his shoulder rehab is done, whose motor never stopped in the WJC, and exhibits a fair amount of maturity for his age. There's no evidence to support that Tarasenko works harder simply because his body is more physically mature.

Second, I don't know why this isn't in his prospect thread, but I read on the Caps board the other day that Kuznetsov has been following the Capitals religiously through the playoffs:
Igor Kleyner ‏ @IgorKleyner Reply Retweet Favorite Open
talking to SovSport, Kuznetsov refers to Washington Capitals as "us", says no new offers from Traktor lately.

and is seen wearing his Capitals hat in the gym:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Langway View Post


@dchesnokov: According to @plysenkov, Kuznetsov closely follows the #Caps series against the #Bruins; always wears a #Caps hat training with the Rus team
and has told his teammates:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SameOld View Post
Andrey Osadchenko ‏ @AOsadchenko Close
According to multiple sources this is what Kuznetsov said a few mins ago at Team Russia's practice. #WorldChampionship #Caps #KuzyaWatch

Andrey Osadchenko ‏ @AOsadchenko Close
This is just in. Evgeny Kuznetsov: I made a decision where I'm gonna continue my career long time ago. I just can't make it public yet
Now I'm not saying it's not still possible that he could play in the KHL next season, but it seems to me like the only reasons to keep that secret would be to avoid causing unrest and anger, or to leverage more money out of your team, and given the way people around here are convinced he can get however much he wants, I'm less inclined to believe option two. He would almost have to be consciously jerking the NHL's chain to do things like this and then stay at home.

Then, considering how Kuznetsov has sustained his KHL production for longer than Tarasenko, produced 7 fewer points, and didn't get the benefit of a full offseason of training due to aforementioned injuries, and Kuznetsov's observed potential talent being a step above Tarasenko, and it's not some ridiculous notion to see him in the #1 spot.

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Old
04-29-2012, 05:43 PM
  #98
scoutman1
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Originally Posted by Bure View Post
Not even. Top 6 or bust.

I can't see him being on a third or even fourth line like you said.
i just do not see his skill for a top 6 role in the NHL....his speed and work ethic could allow him to eventually play 3rd or 4th line IMO, but that is a could.

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Old
04-29-2012, 09:22 PM
  #99
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Considering the list HF just put out they should just hire this guy


G2P's list>>>>>>>>>>>Hf "list"

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Old
04-30-2012, 12:31 AM
  #100
wilco5886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HTFN View Post
First, don't play that hard work card. I don't know why people around here think that a lanky, skilled Russian forward automatically has work ethic issues, but Kuznetsov is the kid who sneaks away to ride the stationary bike before his shoulder rehab is done, whose motor never stopped in the WJC, and exhibits a fair amount of maturity for his age. There's no evidence to support that Tarasenko works harder simply because his body is more physically mature.

Second, I don't know why this isn't in his prospect thread, but I read on the Caps board the other day that Kuznetsov has been following the Capitals religiously through the playoffs:
Igor Kleyner ‏ @IgorKleyner Reply Retweet Favorite Open
talking to SovSport, Kuznetsov refers to Washington Capitals as "us", says no new offers from Traktor lately.

and is seen wearing his Capitals hat in the gym:


and has told his teammates:


Now I'm not saying it's not still possible that he could play in the KHL next season, but it seems to me like the only reasons to keep that secret would be to avoid causing unrest and anger, or to leverage more money out of your team, and given the way people around here are convinced he can get however much he wants, I'm less inclined to believe option two. He would almost have to be consciously jerking the NHL's chain to do things like this and then stay at home.

Then, considering how Kuznetsov has sustained his KHL production for longer than Tarasenko, produced 7 fewer points, and didn't get the benefit of a full offseason of training due to aforementioned injuries, and Kuznetsov's observed potential talent being a step above Tarasenko, and it's not some ridiculous notion to see him in the #1 spot.
I wanted to first thank you for responding to my post, because I was genuinely interested in the arguments. It would like to address each of your points in turn, but before that, I want to make clear that I was in no way trying to degrade Kuznetsov, he is a fantastic player/prospect and anyone who says otherwise is kidding themselves. I was merely trying to understand the logic of the selection(s).

1)I wasn't trying to play a "works harder" argument (I admit I know nothing of Kuznetsov's work ethic, but I doubt its poor as it is nearly impossible to become as skilled as he is without strong work ethic), I was merely trying to point out the dangers of implications, especially when considering prospects, and how they can work both ways. I made this point under the assumption that most had him rated higher due to "higher potential." Personally, I feel the implication "Kuznetsov doesn't have good work ethic because he isn't as physically developed" is just as ridiculous as the implication "Tarasenko is more physically developed, so he doesn't have as much potential." I wasn't aware of some of the stats you brought up, which I will address later in my post.

2) I'll be completely honest, I had not read/heard of those tweets and I'm very happy that all signs point to him coming over next season. Frankly, I think it makes Tarasenko's chances of coming over that much better. I was basing my statements on threads/news I had read earlier in the year (that he had signed a contract, that he and his wife wanted to stay there, some comments by the KHL president (Medvedev?/sp?)) and Tarasenko's near silence on the matter. Luckily those reports are false, or at the very least very misleading. But as I stated before, I don't even know if this factor was considered in the ranking.

3) This is a very good argument, and the very type of things I was looking for when I made my post. I overlooked Kuznetsov's stats from last year (/2 yrs ago) and wasn't aware of his preseason injuries. Nor am I aware of his playoffs stats this year (hockey db hasn't updated KHL playoff stats yet). The fact that Kuznetsov has produced more consistently, and has an upward arc to his stats, certainly swings in his favor. I would like to ask: what was Kuznetsov's role relative to his team the last two years? (ie did he play on the top two lines, what was his TOI like? PP time?) I understand if you don't have these figures off hand, I was just curious.

There is no doubt in my mind that these two (along with Granlund) are the most sure fire (drafted) prospects right now, and all indications point to very successful careers ahead of them.

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