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04-29-2012, 03:57 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by LotteryForLife View Post
Brooklyn is not a viable long term solution. Not sure why this continues to come up?
Because somehow, less money, bad seating and fans no being able to go to games means we'll be able to sign free agents who want to play in an empty arena? Or there's a Saturday Night Fever connection I am missing.

"We don't need no stinking Suffolk fans."

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04-29-2012, 04:14 AM
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Originally Posted by LotteryForLife View Post
Brooklyn is not a viable long term solution. Not sure why this continues to come up?
Please tell us the other viable solutions now.

Those that aren't dreams/wishful thinking.






I thought so.

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04-29-2012, 05:22 AM
  #28
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Let's go over the options:

Nassau renewal, no remodel/replace. Wang gets parking, revenue streams, seating, boxes (limited), all ads. No money towards renovation/replacement.

Nassau renovation, Wang gets revenue, parking, revenue streams, seating, boxes (maybe increased?), all ads. $100M to $300M? (guess on numbers based on extent of renovations)

Nassau replacement, Wang gets all revenue, parking, revenue streams, seating, boxes, all ads. $200M-$400M (based on numbers of similar arenas, but with room for additional cost)

Queens, Wang gets whatever he gets from the builder of the arena, UNLESS he can foot the bill on it himself. If he partners, he could get a percentage of revenue close to half up to half. Ads, seating, boxes, etc. will be split to whatever degree agreed to by partner unless he is strictly a tenant, where he gets a small stream of whatever the arena takes in based on nights the team is in the arena, which may be significantly lower than Nassau's 100% tenancy/ownership. He must at least partner on an arena.

Brooklyn, he will be a tenant, receive a portion of agreed upon revenue as tenant, and will have much limited seating revenue.

So....Nassau looks like the best option revenue wise, as I HIGHLY DOUBT he will have the funds to do Queens himself.

The lowest cash outlay is the status quo of Brooklyn, and Nassau with nothing done pays a ****load more to Wang than Brooklyn will. Argue if you wear a helmet to the dinner table.

The highest return regardless of cost would be the Nassau replacement (new arena) unless he had the money to do Queens himself (which he doesn't have).

The highest return considering cost would be the refurb. No demo, removal of the old, seating added, new revenue created.

Queens opens up hope IF he can get a suitable partner. But Nassau would have to be dead and buried to make sense.

Brooklyn makes sense only if Nassau isn't working but could. It's a rest stop until Queens or Nassau make any ground.

Personally, I thing Wang is best served just going annually in NVMC until Queens or Nassau is done, just to ensure fans will show up.

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04-29-2012, 09:13 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by LotteryForLife View Post
Brooklyn is not a viable long term solution. Not sure why this continues to come up?
If the team makes money yes it is a long term viable solution. do you realize that there are 104 luxury suites and 3000 club seats at the barclays center? the nets have already sold these out. if the islanders go there and sell these out also, the islanders will be making plenty of money without having to sell out the arena on a nightly basis.

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04-29-2012, 09:16 AM
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Meanwhile Murray trumpets on her website the new mall they're building at the old Avis headquarters as a jobs-creator. Meanwhile the Source Mall next door is already a ghost town and she's heading toward losing the all the jobs the Islanders and the arena create. She's not only a hack, she's an idiot.

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04-29-2012, 09:21 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
Because somehow, less money, bad seating and fans no being able to go to games means we'll be able to sign free agents who want to play in an empty arena? Or there's a Saturday Night Fever connection I am missing.

"We don't need no stinking Suffolk fans."
104 luxury suites and 3000 club seats tell me and anyone with financial sense that brooklyn is viable and you will not need to sell out all the regular seats in the arena out in order to make money.

by the way you say bad seating. have you even looked at what the seating is going to look like at barclays? of course not because you prefer to be negative so it fullfills your agenda without even looking or figuring out the statistics. but hey man. keep on banging that nassau county drum even after the politicians have come out publicly and told us all to drop dead.

have fun driving down hempstead tpke and looking at all the tumbleweeds in the coliseum parking lot.

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04-29-2012, 10:26 AM
  #32
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Brooklyn seats more than the Colliseum draws. Keep living in fantasy land.

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04-29-2012, 10:29 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by potvins4cups View Post
104 luxury suites and 3000 club seats tell me and anyone with financial sense that brooklyn is viable and you will not need to sell out all the regular seats in the arena out in order to make money.

by the way you say bad seating. have you even looked at what the seating is going to look like at barclays? of course not because you prefer to be negative so it fullfills your agenda without even looking or figuring out the statistics. but hey man. keep on banging that nassau county drum even after the politicians have come out publicly and told us all to drop dead.

have fun driving down hempstead tpke and looking at all the tumbleweeds in the coliseum parking lot.
This. Its very basic concepts of supply and demand, luxury goods, ect. Fans though think its the regular joes who fund this ****. LOL.

Corporations have product lines trying to ride the Brooklyn image. They will support anything Brooklyn at this point and the Isles have marketable players.

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04-29-2012, 10:34 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by sickofit View Post
Meanwhile Murray trumpets on her website the new mall they're building at the old Avis headquarters as a jobs-creator. Meanwhile the Source Mall next door is already a ghost town and she's heading toward losing the all the jobs the Islanders and the arena create. She's not only a hack, she's an idiot.
It never made sense to have the Source Mall there to begin with. Not with Roosevelt Field practically next door.

Oh and the people going to the Cheesecake Factory are dumb. They should be going to Houstons.

I have little fight in this as I don't live in Nassau, but how do you guys put up with it? There is literally nothing to do on LI besides shop. Without additional revenue coming in from other things property taxes will only go up and up. It's time to start building destinations in that stupid county.

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04-29-2012, 11:58 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LotteryForLife View Post
Brooklyn is not a viable long term solution. Not sure why this continues to come up?
Quote:
Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
Because somehow, less money, bad seating and fans no being able to go to games means we'll be able to sign free agents who want to play in an empty arena? Or there's a Saturday Night Fever connection I am missing.

"We don't need no stinking Suffolk fans."
Actually IF Wang gets involved in the full version of Atlantic Yards project, it CAN be viable given the higher population density in Brooklyn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
Let's go over the options:

Nassau renewal, no remodel/replace. Wang gets parking, revenue streams, seating, boxes (limited), all ads. No money towards renovation/replacement.

Nassau renovation, Wang gets revenue, parking, revenue streams, seating, boxes (maybe increased?), all ads. $100M to $300M? (guess on numbers based on extent of renovations)

Nassau replacement, Wang gets all revenue, parking, revenue streams, seating, boxes, all ads. $200M-$400M (based on numbers of similar arenas, but with room for additional cost)

Queens, Wang gets whatever he gets from the builder of the arena, UNLESS he can foot the bill on it himself. If he partners, he could get a percentage of revenue close to half up to half. Ads, seating, boxes, etc. will be split to whatever degree agreed to by partner unless he is strictly a tenant, where he gets a small stream of whatever the arena takes in based on nights the team is in the arena, which may be significantly lower than Nassau's 100% tenancy/ownership. He must at least partner on an arena.

Brooklyn, he will be a tenant, receive a portion of agreed upon revenue as tenant, and will have much limited seating revenue.

So....Nassau looks like the best option revenue wise, as I HIGHLY DOUBT he will have the funds to do Queens himself.

The lowest cash outlay is the status quo of Brooklyn, and Nassau with nothing done pays a ****load more to Wang than Brooklyn will. Argue if you wear a helmet to the dinner table.

The highest return regardless of cost would be the Nassau replacement (new arena) unless he had the money to do Queens himself (which he doesn't have).

The highest return considering cost would be the refurb. No demo, removal of the old, seating added, new revenue created.

Queens opens up hope IF he can get a suitable partner. But Nassau would have to be dead and buried to make sense.

Brooklyn makes sense only if Nassau isn't working but could. It's a rest stop until Queens or Nassau make any ground.

Personally, I thing Wang is best served just going annually in NVMC until Queens or Nassau is done, just to ensure fans will show up.
The game changer here is the possibility of a publicly funded Queens arena (Wang will pay back a higher portion from the arena revenues) which would blow ANY privately funded arenain Nassau (new or renovated) out of water in terms of profit. Also I think wang eventually wants to sell the team if he takes the Isles to Queens. Being within the NYC limits will likely lead to a higher price tag.

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04-29-2012, 12:27 PM
  #36
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The Lighthouse writer's take on Murray's concern.


http://www.lighthousehockey.com/2012...hing?ref=yahoo
But one thing that has not been done yet is fixing up the Nassau Coliseum and its surrounding area. Somebody really needs to do something about that place.

My goodness, it looks like such a mess over there. The building is just so dingy and pale it looks like an old pill box hat my grandmother used to wear. Except for the ads. I think they plastered all those ugly "New York Islanders" and Optimum Online ads on the outside to cover-up the mildew and the bird poop. The fence around it is all rusty and bent out of shape and the parking lot is big and ugly and usually mostly empty. Unless you count the trash. And the Marriott.

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04-29-2012, 12:46 PM
  #37
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Why do posters on this forum keep passing off the pure speculation that Brooklyn is not economically viable as if it is a proven fact? Does anyone here have ACTUAL numbers? Please stop assuming you have all the answers when you don't.

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04-29-2012, 12:52 PM
  #38
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God I hate Kate Murray

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Old
04-29-2012, 12:58 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isle Junkie View Post
It never made sense to have the Source Mall there to begin with. Not with Roosevelt Field practically next door.

Oh and the people going to the Cheesecake Factory are dumb. They should be going to Houstons.

I have little fight in this as I don't live in Nassau, but how do you guys put up with it? There is literally nothing to do on LI besides shop. Without additional revenue coming in from other things property taxes will only go up and up. It's time to start building destinations in that stupid county.
Not to mention if the Isles leave, Nassau has to make up $200+ million in lost revenue, plus the cost of doing something with the NVMC.

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04-29-2012, 01:07 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Hipster Doofus View Post
Brooklyn seats more than the Colliseum draws. Keep living in fantasy land.

This is true, but we know if the isles were good they'd sell more. If the isles were great, they'd sell out

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04-29-2012, 01:16 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
The Lighthouse writer's take on Murray's concern.


http://www.lighthousehockey.com/2012...hing?ref=yahoo
But one thing that has not been done yet is fixing up the Nassau Coliseum and its surrounding area. Somebody really needs to do something about that place.

My goodness, it looks like such a mess over there. The building is just so dingy and pale it looks like an old pill box hat my grandmother used to wear. Except for the ads. I think they plastered all those ugly "New York Islanders" and Optimum Online ads on the outside to cover-up the mildew and the bird poop. The fence around it is all rusty and bent out of shape and the parking lot is big and ugly and usually mostly empty. Unless you count the trash. And the Marriott.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 Min Misconduct View Post
Not to mention if the Isles leave, Nassau has to make up $200+ million in lost revenue, plus the cost of doing something with the NVMC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isle Junkie View Post
It never made sense to have the Source Mall there to begin with. Not with Roosevelt Field practically next door.

Oh and the people going to the Cheesecake Factory are dumb. They should be going to Houstons.

I have little fight in this as I don't live in Nassau, but how do you guys put up with it? There is literally nothing to do on LI besides shop. Without additional revenue coming in from other things property taxes will only go up and up. It's time to start building destinations in that stupid county.
I want to include the above in a letter to Murry.

Perhaps this could be the basis of that Newsday ad we are always talking about taking out.

Dear Kate Murray,

You brag about the new mall at the old Avis Headquarters while the Source Mall a mere stone throw away sits mostly vacant. What makes you think the new mall at the old Avis headquarters will do any better? The Source succumbed to Roosevelt Field, why won't this new mall?

And please don't call it a job creator. If anything, it is a job balancer, making up for the lost jobs at the Source.

Also, while we have your ear, it has come to our attention that the Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum is in Hempstead, your town. Could you please do something to spruce it up just a bit, after all, it is a publicly owned building. My goodness, it looks like such a mess over there. The building is just so dingy and pale it looks like an old pill box hat my grandmother used to wear. Except for the ads. I think they plastered all those ugly "New York Islanders" and Optimum Online ads on the outside to cover-up the mildew and the bird poop. The fence around it is all rusty and bent out of shape and the parking lot is big and ugly and usually mostly empty. Unless you count the trash.

By the way, whatever happened with that Lighthouse thing? That would've been a true job creator and cleaned up the blight that is the Coliseum.

Thank you,
Us

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04-29-2012, 02:47 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by potvins4cups View Post
104 luxury suites and 3000 club seats tell me and anyone with financial sense that brooklyn is viable and you will not need to sell out all the regular seats in the arena out in order to make money.

by the way you say bad seating. have you even looked at what the seating is going to look like at barclays? of course not because you prefer to be negative so it fullfills your agenda without even looking or figuring out the statistics. but hey man. keep on banging that nassau county drum even after the politicians have come out publicly and told us all to drop dead.

have fun driving down hempstead tpke and looking at all the tumbleweeds in the coliseum parking lot.
Does Wang sell more luxury box suites if they are all sold out (for the year)? How does he do that trick?

The arena owner gets the revenue and would SHARE it with Wang based on nights he is there, correct? Or does Wang get to sell the suites all over again just for his nights? Despite the boxes being one year licenses sold at high dollar?

Yes, looked at seating. Yes, the arena has fewer seats that will sell for more money, but what revenues does Wang get? Answer that one.


Steve, you hit the nail on the head with the Queens arena if it's publicly funded, yes. And Queens is a lot more money than a tenancy in Brooklyn.

The math, not emotion, is what proves is best. Wang makes the least in Brooklyn as a tenant in a smaller building. Now if he invests in future projects, good for him, but his team will still make the least of any team in the NHL at said arena.

Sorry, guys, but the money is in Nassau if he gets it done and Queens if anything gets done.

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04-29-2012, 02:52 PM
  #43
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Why do posters on this forum keep passing off the pure speculation that Brooklyn is not economically viable as if it is a proven fact? Does anyone here have ACTUAL numbers? Please stop assuming you have all the answers when you don't.
Do you have numbers what Wang will make with 41 nights as a tenant and a small share of luxury boxes and other revenue potentially? Or news that Ratner and Co. are going to give everything to Wang? I bet my car Wang makes more now as arena owner in a dump than he does as a tenant in Brooklyn.

I bet he makes more in parking at NVMC (to all events all year) than from the share of the 104 luxury boxes and then some for 41 nights.

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04-29-2012, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Crazy Ivan View Post
I want to include the above in a letter to Murry.

Perhaps this could be the basis of that Newsday ad we are always talking about taking out.

Dear Kate Murray,

You brag about the new mall at the old Avis Headquarters while the Source Mall a mere stone throw away sits mostly vacant. What makes you think the new mall at the old Avis headquarters will do any better? The Source succumbed to Roosevelt Field, why won't this new mall?

And please don't call it a job creator. If anything, it is a job balancer, making up for the lost jobs at the Source.

Also, while we have your ear, it has come to our attention that the Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum is in Hempstead, your town. Could you please do something to spruce it up just a bit, after all, it is a publicly owned building. My goodness, it looks like such a mess over there. The building is just so dingy and pale it looks like an old pill box hat my grandmother used to wear. Except for the ads. I think they plastered all those ugly "New York Islanders" and Optimum Online ads on the outside to cover-up the mildew and the bird poop. The fence around it is all rusty and bent out of shape and the parking lot is big and ugly and usually mostly empty. Unless you count the trash.

By the way, whatever happened with that Lighthouse thing? That would've been a true job creator and cleaned up the blight that is the Coliseum.

Thank you,
Us
This and the quoted posts are brilliant.

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04-29-2012, 03:04 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
Do you have numbers what Wang will make with 41 nights as a tenant and a small share of luxury boxes and other revenue potentially? Or news that Ratner and Co. are going to give everything to Wang? I bet my car Wang makes more now as arena owner in a dump than he does as a tenant in Brooklyn.

I bet he makes more in parking at NVMC (to all events all year) than from the share of the 104 luxury boxes and then some for 41 nights.

I don't have the numbers. That's why I'm not trying to pass off my opinion as if it's fact.

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04-29-2012, 03:11 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Isle Junkie View Post
I don't live in Nassau, but how do you guys put up with it? There is literally nothing to do on LI besides shop. Without additional revenue coming in from other things property taxes will only go up and up. It's time to start building destinations in that stupid county.
K Murray' supporters prefer it this way. (Yet expect an arena with little revenue to work. Go figure.)

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04-29-2012, 03:16 PM
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I don't have the numbers. That's why I'm not trying to pass off my opinion as if it's fact.
OMFG.....then give me hypotheticals at a full capacity on 41 nights at $100 average per seat and 30% share of luxury boxes at $100,000 per box per year (Anaheim charges less per year) and zero share of parking, a zero share of concession and a limited pittance of other streams that the owner and Nets rightly deserve in their own building.

Now give the average capacity of 85% of 16234 to 41 nights at a lower average ticket price of $80, then add all arena advertising dollars, all parking, all concession profit revenue, all event profits(tickets and other derived revenues from no hockey events at the arena), all luxury box revenue 100% (though there are far fewer) and deduct the cost of a maintenance crew of roughly $4M annually (what I believe SMG settled on).

Which is more?

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04-29-2012, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
OMFG.....then give me hypotheticals at a full capacity on 41 nights at $100 average per seat and 30% share of luxury boxes at $100,000 per box per year (Anaheim charges less per year) and zero share of parking, a zero share of concession and a limited pittance of other streams that the owner and Nets rightly deserve in their own building.

Now give the average capacity of 85% of 16234 to 41 nights at a lower average ticket price of $80, then add all arena advertising dollars, all parking, all concession profit revenue, all event profits(tickets and other derived revenues from no hockey events at the arena), all luxury box revenue 100% (though there are far fewer) and deduct the cost of a maintenance crew of roughly $4M annually (what I believe SMG settled on).

Which is more?
You sway the numbers in your favor to fulfill your agenda. but guess what? you are 100% wrong. wang does not get

ALL ADVERTISING
ALL PARKING
ALL CONCESSION
ALL EVENTS PROFITS
ALL LUXURY BOX REVENUE

he shares all this with SMG and Nassau County so as usual you are blowing smoke to try and prove a point that has zero basis.

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04-29-2012, 05:14 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by potvins4cups View Post
You sway the numbers in your favor to fulfill your agenda. but guess what? you are 100% wrong. wang does not get

ALL ADVERTISING
ALL PARKING
ALL CONCESSION
ALL EVENTS PROFITS
ALL LUXURY BOX REVENUE

he shares all this with SMG and Nassau County so as usual you are blowing smoke to try and prove a point that has zero basis.
According to the "NEW" sublease that was approved by outgoing County Executive Thomas Suozzi, the Islanders gained operational control of the arena, handling all Coliseum bookings and receiving all the concessions, parking, and ticket revenue SMG used to receive.

SMG continues to handle day-to-day activities at the Coliseum in return for a fee of $3.4 million annually, plus additional payments structured as a percentage of the Islanders' net operating income.

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04-29-2012, 06:06 PM
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According to the "NEW" sublease that was approved by outgoing County Executive Thomas Suozzi, the Islanders gained operational control of the arena, handling all Coliseum bookings and receiving all the concessions, parking, and ticket revenue SMG used to receive.

SMG continues to handle day-to-day activities at the Coliseum in return for a fee of $3.4 million annually, plus additional payments structured as a percentage of the Islanders' net operating income.
So? Yet with that Forbes says NYI finished LAST in league revenue AGAIN.

That doesn't assume that will be available post 2015 AND doesn't allow for associated expenses for all non NYI events.

Why do people wrongly assume Wang should spend non NYI revenue on NYI?

(And assume it as fact)

Business doesn't work that way.

Wang or any owner's NYI specific revenue would be more in Brooklyn than in nassau based on luxury boxes and corporate support.

But why are we even mentioning nassau? They don't have a viable feasible arena. Brooklyn does.


Last edited by Bert Marshall days: 04-29-2012 at 06:23 PM.
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