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Coaching staff (special teams, defense, goaltending, S&C, team physicality)

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Old
12-13-2011, 10:48 AM
  #1
chasespace
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Coaching staff (special teams, defense, goaltending, S&C, team physicality)

I have nothing but respect for Flemming and wish him a speedy recovery, but in the meantime we need another coach to fill his spot.

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Old
12-13-2011, 10:54 AM
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LightningStrikes
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Our PP sucks but our PK isn't any better.

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Old
12-13-2011, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by LightningStrikes View Post
Our PP sucks but our PK isn't any better.

Seems like O.K. Hockey again, a lot of things suck.

New forum member here, been a lightning fan for a while. Posted a long post earlier, guess it didn't post

We need a goalie, rugged defender and a scoring winger or we arent going anywhere...right now, I have us making the playoffs at a late playoff push but getting knocked out early..

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12-13-2011, 11:10 AM
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LightningStrikes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stammertime91 View Post
Seems like O.K. Hockey again, a lot of things suck.

New forum member here, been a lightning fan for a while. Posted a long post earlier, guess it didn't post

We need a goalie, rugged defender and a scoring winger or we arent going anywhere...right now, I have us making the playoffs at a late playoff push but getting knocked out early..
Last season, we weren't that great 5-on-5 either but our special teams bailed us out most of the time. This season - not so much.

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Old
12-13-2011, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by LightningStrikes View Post
Last season, we weren't that great 5-on-5 either but our special teams bailed us out most of the time. This season - not so much.
That's because our PP is totally predictable.

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Old
03-22-2012, 09:15 PM
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Felonious Python
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Roli said to PK that he's gone back to drills that he'd been doing for '15, 20 years'.

Why the **** did you stop doing those?

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03-22-2012, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
Roli said to PK that he's gone back to drills that he'd been doing for '15, 20 years'.

Why the **** did you stop doing those?
Interesting, almost sounds like a goalie coach issue. Mind you, Roli's been in the league long enough he should know what is and isn't going to work for him.

I am so disappointed - my DVR didn't record the game, I set it to a blacked out station. I was so looking forward to watching this once I got home from work.

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Old
03-22-2012, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
Roli said to PK that he's gone back to drills that he'd been doing for '15, 20 years'.

Why the **** did you stop doing those?
I've told you this before...

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Old
03-27-2012, 08:03 AM
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Frantz Jean worst goalie coach ever. Notice how Roli mentions he went back to things he's been doing for 20 years and he instantly starts playing better again? I mean ****, where was this all year Dwayne?

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Old
03-27-2012, 08:15 AM
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I think this just was 2 good games by roli... and not because of the old drills lol... anyway, goalie coach should be fired

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Old
03-27-2012, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Pyatt View Post
Frantz Jean worst goalie coach ever. Notice how Roli mentions he went back to things he's been doing for 20 years and he instantly starts playing better again? I mean ****, where was this all year Dwayne?
Pretty surprising what one goalie coach can do to a guy.

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Old
03-27-2012, 09:44 AM
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Remember, even Smitty was somewhat calling him out when he said how much of a help Burke has been for him in Phoenix:

Quote:
[Mike Smith] said goaltenders coach Sean Burke has been "a huge, huge mentor for me."

"I've matured a lot as a player. I've learned a lot about my game and what it takes to be more consistent," Smith said. "I don't know if that would have happened if I would have stayed in Tampa. I'm not saying it wouldn't have. I just think I've learned a lot about my game this season than I have in the past."
http://www.tampabay.com/sports/hocke...-smith/1211691


Last edited by LightningStrikes: 03-27-2012 at 09:53 AM.
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Old
03-27-2012, 06:35 PM
  #13
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Originally Posted by LightningStrikes View Post
Remember, even Smitty was somewhat calling him out when he said how much of a help Burke has been for him in Phoenix:


http://www.tampabay.com/sports/hocke...-smith/1211691
And some thought it was just sour grapes.

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Old
03-27-2012, 06:41 PM
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Send a message via MSN to Bish please
I wouldn't be against replacing both Jean and Lacroix this offseason.

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Old
03-27-2012, 10:56 PM
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Why Lecroix?

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Old
03-27-2012, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve wiserman View Post
Why Lecroix?
I really don't like the way our defense has been playing. Of course, a lot of it is playing 5/6 guys in top four positions, but nobody is playing well lately and the new guys all seem to be regressing since they got here.

Of course I don't think he's going anywhere.

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Old
03-27-2012, 11:17 PM
  #17
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No, plain and simple, our D is god awful. It was last year, it is this year, much more visibly with the addition of the poor goaltending. I've always though of this team as more of a finesse team instead of a checking team, which is a shame, because you could definitely combine the two. I do remember a long time ago reading somewhere that Guy always was more concerned about the puck than the body. I.e, poke checking instead of body checking. I wish I could remember where I saw it.

In my opinion, hitting a big part, if not, the biggest part of playing defense, and the Lightning seriously seem to lack the gall to hit players. I'm not saying it never happens, but it should definitely be a more frequent occasion. The boys cleared the crease semi-well today I did notice though, something I haven't seen in a while.

Now is it Lecroix's fault that our D isn't good? Possibly.
Is it Jean's fault our goaltenders are perennially horrible? Possibly.

Too much speculation of what we as fans don't know. We don't know what the coaches tell the players to do. It may not be a coaching problem, but a personnel problem. However, on the flip side, it may not be a personnel problem, it may be a coaching problem. Or both.

Long story short, no one knows except the coaches and the players and SFY.

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Old
03-27-2012, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Genius Brian Lawton View Post
He went back to doing what worked for him and stopped listening to certain things. Wish he would have done it sooner.
So does he.

http://www.tampabay.com/sports/hocke...-surge/1222241

Quote:
"I like Frantz a lot. He's a great person and a great guy and obviously knows a lot about the game or he wouldn't be coaching at this level," Roloson said before the game against the Bruins. "For me, it was just some of the stuff he was doing, it didn't quite work into my game. I had to get back doing the things I know work and allowed me to play as long as I have."

Roloson said he and Jean talked, "And he said, 'Okay, let me know what drills you want to do.' We've worked pretty well together with it."
Quote:
Roloson said he wishes he spoke up sooner.

"I didn't want to be an insubordinate guy and not go with what they were teaching, so I just wanted to do that," he said. "But at the end I have to do what's going to allow me to play the best."

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Old
03-28-2012, 01:41 AM
  #19
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Gut the coaching staff please besides Boucher. I'm all for that. Let's see if it's terrible coaching or just the players.

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03-28-2012, 03:44 AM
  #20
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Yeah... we definitely need a new goalie coach next year.

And keep Hedman on the top PP damnit!

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Old
03-28-2012, 06:19 AM
  #21
Felonious Python
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The concerns we are having about the coaching staff are something I was worried about when we first hired Boucher.

He, and his crew climbed the ranks so quickly, that there wasn't a chance for the weak links to be found over time.

I have no doubts that Boucher is an NHL quality coach, but it's remarkable if everyone else who came up with him is the same.

I'll throw my doubts over S&C in the mix as well. Mikkelsson has become physically weak. You could not say the same when we first got him.


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Old
03-28-2012, 06:48 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve wiserman View Post
No, plain and simple, our D is god awful. It was last year, it is this year, much more visibly with the addition of the poor goaltending. I've always though of this team as more of a finesse team instead of a checking team, which is a shame, because you could definitely combine the two. I do remember a long time ago reading somewhere that Guy always was more concerned about the puck than the body. I.e, poke checking instead of body checking. I wish I could remember where I saw it.

In my opinion, hitting a big part, if not, the biggest part of playing defense, and the Lightning seriously seem to lack the gall to hit players. I'm not saying it never happens, but it should definitely be a more frequent occasion. The boys cleared the crease semi-well today I did notice though, something I haven't seen in a while.

Now is it Lecroix's fault that our D isn't good? Possibly.
Is it Jean's fault our goaltenders are perennially horrible? Possibly.

Too much speculation of what we as fans don't know. We don't know what the coaches tell the players to do. It may not be a coaching problem, but a personnel problem. However, on the flip side, it may not be a personnel problem, it may be a coaching problem. Or both.

Long story short, no one knows except the coaches and the players and SFY.
I don't think I've ever seen Boucher say that, but I have for Lacroix with the defensemen

http://www.tampabay.com/sports/hocke...-maker/1194863
Quote:
Hedman's game is not nearly as physical, something for which he has taken outside criticism. But Lightning assistant coach Dan Lacroix, who handles the defense, said that is unfair.

"The way we ask him to play is to have a great stick and make sure pucks don't go through," Lacroix said. "We don't put as much emphasis on the physical play of our D until they are in front of the net and battling."

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Old
03-28-2012, 06:58 AM
  #23
Felonious Python
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I think it's a misnomer to say that it's Lacroix who 'handles the defensemen'.

Yes, he's 'in charge' of them, but hockey coaching staffs aren't nearly as rigid as that. These are people, and they spend time together, and there's a certain amount of influence that each will have with each other. Boucher and Raymond are roommates on the road. Even when they talk shop, they're well within their right to give each other advice, and let each other know what they are seeing, even if it's not their specialization, because all of them should have the tools to be capable at coaching everything, even if their personal preference, depth of knowledge, or style lends itself well to a particular asst. capacity.

It's not like Lacroix is banned from talking to forwards, nor should he be.

Usually in a coaching staff, the goalie and S&C coaches are somewhat loners, as both are highly specialized, and the S&C isn't much use on the road. Goalie coaches aren't a guaranteed traveler either.

It's also part of why I thought missing Wayne Fleming matters so much. To me, he's an NHL coach in some capacity. He may be in charge of the PK, but the PK only exists at the same time as the PP, which is Boucher's thing, and they can go back and forth trying to perfect both systems.

If you think about the composition of NHL coaching staffs, they tend to be made up of guys who were head coaches at various levels. There's very few career assistant coaches everywhere they've been. (again, goaltending and S&C excluded for the reasons stated above)

This, in effect has a coaching staff made up of people who know more than their individual roles, as they've been the boss themselves somewhere. They also had their own ways of winning, which provides a fail-safe should the head coach's intent of how they should play, not pan out.

I know Marty Raymond was head coach at McGill (CIS), which while impressive, is not as proven as an AHL or major junior head coach would be, IMO.


Last edited by Felonious Python: 03-28-2012 at 07:30 AM.
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Old
03-28-2012, 07:31 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
The concerns we are having about the coaching staff are something I was worried about when we first hired Boucher.

He, and his crew climbed the ranks so quickly, that there wasn't a chance for the weak links to be found over time.

I have no doubts that Boucher is an NHL quality coach, but it's remarkable if everyone else who came up with him is the same.

I'll throw my doubts over S&C in the mix as well. Mikkelsson has become physically weak. You could not say the same when we first got him.
I wonder why the last S&C coach was let go, or quit. Or whatever the case may be. I also wonder how much of the injuries and refusal to take the body have to do with the conditioning.

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Old
03-28-2012, 08:36 AM
  #25
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I moved a couple posts from the GDT over here, please continue.

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