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Old
05-16-2012, 09:50 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
Obviously The + with Garon would be whatever we would normally offer for Bernier and Schneider. Garon would be an add in to give the other team a veteran backup.

Id love Price here, it would literally take the farm though, but Im not sold on Montreal not moving him to be honest. It could happen.

Of course those guys are stop gaps, but if you are bringing Helenius over, and you have Janus and Tokarski about 1-2 years away, wouldnt all we "need" is a stop gap? So why would that be a problem.
Not if Helenius runs with it. He's a big butterfly goalie who was set back with injuries and inept management last time he was over here.

Have faith bro. In SFY we trust. Will be one of the most exciting and interesting offseasons ever with D and goalie makeover and new CBA negotiations. Can't wait!

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05-16-2012, 10:38 PM
  #102
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I agree. Enough is enough. If you're bringing in Helenius you have to move Garon for something better. HAVE to.
There seem to be only a handful of options out here. Out of curiosity, which do you all think would be best?
Spending 4 million on a goalie like Voukun, bringing in someone like Schnieder, Harding or Bernier, trading for Luongo, or trying to bulk up defense and hoping Garon plays like he was before his injury?

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05-17-2012, 06:00 AM
  #103
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A lot of people seem to forget how well Garon played late in the season, if we can improve the D and get him playing like that we should be ok. Riku has rediscovered his game and confidence, he should be a solid back up. Most Finnish goalies take awhile to fully develope so hopefully he's at that point where the developement is over. Trading Garon doesn't make much sense cause he probably has little value, he also can go all Mike Smith if he goes to the right team and we look like idiots again. If we start the season poorly I'm sure SY can swing a trade and get someone in, but he can at least focus the offseason on the D.

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05-17-2012, 06:48 AM
  #104
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Garon is not a starter... neither is Helenius

I don't want another season with mediocre goaltending going on

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05-17-2012, 07:31 AM
  #105
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Garon is not a starter... neither is Helenius

I don't want another season with mediocre goaltending going on
Who do you want as a starter than? I know neither has proven they deserve to be a #1 but sometimes you have to give someone a chance. If we go with the tandem then we don't have to give up any assets for a goalie and have cap space for a big name UFA D or 2.

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05-17-2012, 08:27 AM
  #106
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I'd trade Garon and bring Helenius (1B/backup) as well as another goaltender. I like Garon, he's good but we could live without him.

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05-17-2012, 01:36 PM
  #107
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If Riku is the plan then they wont trade Garon. That wouldnt be smart. Riku could end up sucking then your back to where you started. At least with Garon you saw he could play. That stretch before he got hurt was impressive and provided exactly the goaltending we needed. If he would have stayed healthy and maintained his play, I think we may have made the playoffs. If they want to go the cheap way to make room for signing free agents then having Riku and Garon would be the plan. Which I honestly wouldnt be against.

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05-17-2012, 01:58 PM
  #108
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Who do you want as a starter than? I know neither has proven they deserve to be a #1 but sometimes you have to give someone a chance. If we go with the tandem then we don't have to give up any assets for a goalie and have cap space for a big name UFA D or 2.
Bernier, Schneider, Luongo, Thomas...

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05-17-2012, 02:34 PM
  #109
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I just don't actually think Helenius is coming over.

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05-17-2012, 04:39 PM
  #110
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Maybe a new Swiss forward ?
here

video :

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Old
05-17-2012, 05:13 PM
  #111
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Bernier, Schneider, Luongo, Thomas...
I would like to have one of those too, but none of them are going to come cheap. I was all about trading for one but the more I read about what it will cost I don't like the idea. We'd make one spot better but weaken another or weaken our prospect pool again. Garon looked like he could be a 1a late last season. Finnish goalies are notorious for being slow developers, maybe Riku has hit his potential and is ready to flourish.

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05-18-2012, 06:23 PM
  #112
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I would like to have one of those too, but none of them are going to come cheap. I was all about trading for one but the more I read about what it will cost I don't like the idea. We'd make one spot better but weaken another or weaken our prospect pool again. Garon looked like he could be a 1a late last season. Finnish goalies are notorious for being slow developers, maybe Riku has hit his potential and is ready to flourish.
Would you do Luongo for four 2nd rounders (this year) + Ohlund?

At the draft, if willing to do this return, I think it's pretty possible that you could get Luongo, while drafting two 1st round prospects (adding two more high quality prospects this year, one top 10 talent) - normal to get two prospects in the first two rounds, anyways... and allowing Tampa to keep all of your current prospects... Yes, the price is pretty high (four 2nd rounders is significant, and a high price)... but I think that Tampa could easily afford it... I think that if Vancouver is forced to accept draft picks / prospect return, I think it would be real attractive to Vancouver as well... Luongo is a unique situation, and I think that Tampa could be in a unique position (lots of 2nd rounders) to get it done...

Just a thought

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05-18-2012, 06:25 PM
  #113
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Would you do Luongo for four 2nd rounders (this year) + Ohlund?

At the draft, if willing to do this return, I think it's pretty possible that you could get Luongo, while drafting two 1st round prospects (adding two more high quality prospects this year, one top 10 talent)... and keeping all of your current prospects... Yes, the price is pretty high (four 2nd rounders is significant, and a high price)... but I think that Tampa could easily afford it... I think that if Vancouver is forced to accept draft picks / prospect return, I think it would be real attractive to Vancouver as well... Luongo is a unique situation, and I think that Tampa could be in a unique position (lots of 2nd rounders) to get it done...

Just a thought
Do you accept bits of string?

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05-18-2012, 06:28 PM
  #114
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Do you accept bits of string?
Depends what the string is made of

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05-18-2012, 06:55 PM
  #115
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Depends what the string is made of
The one that AV's job is hanging by!

In all seriousness 4 seconds is too high. I would go max 2 and good prospect and we would have to get back a + too.

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05-18-2012, 07:05 PM
  #116
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The one that AV's job is hanging by!

In all seriousness 4 seconds is too high. I would go max 2 and good prospect and we would have to get back a + too.
Assuming underwhelming offers from all teams, just beat toronto's underwhelming offer (whatever that is) and I'm happy!

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05-18-2012, 07:53 PM
  #117
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Would you do Luongo for four 2nd rounders (this year) + Ohlund?

At the draft, if willing to do this return, I think it's pretty possible that you could get Luongo, while drafting two 1st round prospects (adding two more high quality prospects this year, one top 10 talent) - normal to get two prospects in the first two rounds, anyways... and allowing Tampa to keep all of your current prospects... Yes, the price is pretty high (four 2nd rounders is significant, and a high price)... but I think that Tampa could easily afford it... I think that if Vancouver is forced to accept draft picks / prospect return, I think it would be real attractive to Vancouver as well... Luongo is a unique situation, and I think that Tampa could be in a unique position (lots of 2nd rounders) to get it done...

Just a thought
I would absolutely say no to that offer, first we might not have 4 2nds depends on Florida, and that's a huge overpayment. How does that not affect our prospect pool? We can get a future #1 goalie, top 4 D, depth fowards who'll be closer to contributing than 3/4 rounders. I know 1 or 2 may be busts but 2 can be NHLers. We can possibly give up 2 2nds for TT who currently is better than Luongo. Only way I see us giving up decent assets for Luongo is if Tenev comes back with him. Hows 3 2nds for Luongo + Tanev?

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05-18-2012, 11:16 PM
  #118
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I would absolutely say no to that offer, first we might not have 4 2nds depends on Florida, and that's a huge overpayment. How does that not affect our prospect pool? We can get a future #1 goalie, top 4 D, depth fowards who'll be closer to contributing than 3/4 rounders. I know 1 or 2 may be busts but 2 can be NHLers. We can possibly give up 2 2nds for TT who currently is better than Luongo. Only way I see us giving up decent assets for Luongo is if Tenev comes back with him. Hows 3 2nds for Luongo + Tanev?
OK, it affects your prospect pool by not filling it with four (or three) more 2nd rounder-caliber prospects (it's an opportunity cost)... But it doesn't take anything out of your prospect pool, that is currently in... and you also fill your prospect pool with two 1st rounder-caliber prospects (one top 10)... I think that's a high price TB can easily afford... If it's one that should be paid on Luongo (or Schneider), or any other goaltender, you guys know better than me... I don't know like you do how dire your goaltending need is... Or, exactly, who you could get that is available that would work well... It's huge for Yzerman to have these 2nd round picks, IMO... You could package all four (or three) together and get a real significant player, while not really affecting your prospect pool (in that you're not taking anything out of it, and still filling it this year with blue-chip talent)... If it's a goaltender, or defensemen, or forward... whatever makes most sense... It would be a fantastic draft, I think, if Yzerman can draft two players in the first round (one top 10), and then trade the second round picks for a player who can really help you right away... Then draft in the 3rd, 4th, etc. (assuming Tampa has those picks)...

Assuming Tampa needs an outstanding goaltender, and is looking for multiple "kicks at the can" for cup runs - starting next year, but also into the future:

I know Luongo very well... He's an outstanding goaltender... I know that he would provide Tampa with absolutely fantastic goaltending... If Tampa can get him (and, obviously, better for Tampa as cheap as possible) it would be a steal...

I think there will be a market for Luongo... But, regardless, if I'm Gillis, I don't trade Tanev or any other young player to raise the return... To me, Luongo would return, what Luongo returns... If getting an underwhelming return on his own, I'd just as soon waive Luongo, and consider it like an UFA leaving... If teams are offering practically nothing, and Luongo isn't expanding his list (the teams that want him don't really like or want him - as evidence through not offering much, and Luongo himself isn't helping by limiting those who can want him, just set him free... He can go to whoever has priority to pick him, and who wants him, for nothing in return, IMO...

Two 2nd round draft picks? And for not just Luongo... but for Luongo and Tanev? If that is even close to what will happen in the real world in dealing with Tampa, and the offers elsewhere are similar, I'd rather waive Luongo... Columbus (or whoever has first dibs on him, and has interest) can have him for nothing...

If Luongo still wants to be a Canuck, if I'm Gillis, and the offers are this underwhelming, I'd even think about trading Schneider instead... Luongo's a franchise goaltender, and IMHO, fantastic enough to win a cup (and more) with... The only problem with that though, is Schneider is like a young Luongo, who is perhaps mentally more sharp... He'll provide the Canucks with years more outstanding goaltending... That's real tough to let go of... Something tells me you wouldn't accept four 2nd's for Schneider either though ... Not that I proposed it... If I'm Gillis, I ask for a lot more than that for Schneider... Another thing is, I'm not convinced that Luongo will play his career out here, regardless if Schneider is traded or not... My feeling is that Luongo will want to play out his career out East, eventually... If true, it makes the decision to trade Schneider tough, when faced with it now...


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Old
05-19-2012, 12:48 AM
  #119
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OK, it affects your prospect pool by not filling it with four (or three) more 2nd rounder-caliber prospects (it's an opportunity cost)... But it doesn't take anything out of your prospect pool, that is currently in... and you also fill your prospect pool with two 1st rounder-caliber prospects (one top 10)... I think that's a high price TB can easily afford... If it's one that should be paid on Luongo (or Schneider), or any other goaltender, you guys know better than me... I don't know like you do how dire your goaltending need is... Or, exactly, who you could get that is available that would work well... It's huge for Yzerman to have these 2nd round picks, IMO... You could package all four (or three) together and get a real significant player, while not really affecting your prospect pool (in that you're not taking anything out of it, and still filling it this year with blue-chip talent)... If it's a goaltender, or defensemen, or forward... whatever makes most sense... It would be a fantastic draft, I think, if Yzerman can draft two players in the first round (one top 10), and then trade the second round picks for a player who can really help you right away... Then draft in the 3rd, 4th, etc. (assuming Tampa has those picks)...

Assuming Tampa needs an outstanding goaltender, and is looking for multiple "kicks at the can" for cup runs - starting next year, but also into the future:

I know Luongo very well... He's an outstanding goaltender... I know that he would provide Tampa with absolutely fantastic goaltending... If Tampa can get him (and, obviously, better for Tampa as cheap as possible) it would be a steal...

I think there will be a market for Luongo... But, regardless, if I'm Gillis, I don't trade Tanev or any other young player to raise the return... To me, Luongo would return, what Luongo returns... If getting an underwhelming return on his own, I'd just as soon waive Luongo, and consider it like an UFA leaving... If teams are offering practically nothing, and Luongo isn't expanding his list (the teams that want him don't really like or want him - as evidence through not offering much, and Luongo himself isn't helping by limiting those who can want him, just set him free... He can go to whoever has priority to pick him, and who wants him, for nothing in return, IMO...

Two 2nd round draft picks? And for not just Luongo... but for Luongo and Tanev? If that is even close to what will happen in the real world in dealing with Tampa, and the offers elsewhere are similar, I'd rather waive Luongo... Columbus (or whoever has first dibs on him, and has interest) can have him for nothing...

If Luongo still wants to be a Canuck, if I'm Gillis, and the offers are this underwhelming, I'd even think about trading Schneider instead... Luongo's a franchise goaltender, and IMHO, fantastic enough to win a cup (and more) with... The only problem with that though, is Schneider is like a young Luongo, who is perhaps mentally more sharp... He'll provide the Canucks with years more outstanding goaltending... That's real tough to let go of... Something tells me you wouldn't accept four 2nd's for Schneider either though ... Not that I proposed it... If I'm Gillis, I ask for a lot more than that for Schneider... Another thing is, I'm not convinced that Luongo will play his career out here, regardless if Schneider is traded or not... My feeling is that Luongo will want to play out his career out East, eventually... If true, it makes the decision to trade Schneider tough, when faced with it now...
Now youre going down the right path.

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05-19-2012, 06:40 AM
  #120
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OK, it affects your prospect pool by not filling it with four (or three) more 2nd rounder-caliber prospects (it's an opportunity cost)... But it doesn't take anything out of your prospect pool, that is currently in... and you also fill your prospect pool with two 1st rounder-caliber prospects (one top 10)... I think that's a high price TB can easily afford... If it's one that should be paid on Luongo (or Schneider), or any other goaltender, you guys know better than me... I don't know like you do how dire your goaltending need is... Or, exactly, who you could get that is available that would work well... It's huge for Yzerman to have these 2nd round picks, IMO... You could package all four (or three) together and get a real significant player, while not really affecting your prospect pool (in that you're not taking anything out of it, and still filling it this year with blue-chip talent)... If it's a goaltender, or defensemen, or forward... whatever makes most sense... It would be a fantastic draft, I think, if Yzerman can draft two players in the first round (one top 10), and then trade the second round picks for a player who can really help you right away... Then draft in the 3rd, 4th, etc. (assuming Tampa has those picks)...

Assuming Tampa needs an outstanding goaltender, and is looking for multiple "kicks at the can" for cup runs - starting next year, but also into the future:

I know Luongo very well... He's an outstanding goaltender... I know that he would provide Tampa with absolutely fantastic goaltending... If Tampa can get him (and, obviously, better for Tampa as cheap as possible) it would be a steal...

I think there will be a market for Luongo... But, regardless, if I'm Gillis, I don't trade Tanev or any other young player to raise the return... To me, Luongo would return, what Luongo returns... If getting an underwhelming return on his own, I'd just as soon waive Luongo, and consider it like an UFA leaving... If teams are offering practically nothing, and Luongo isn't expanding his list (the teams that want him don't really like or want him - as evidence through not offering much, and Luongo himself isn't helping by limiting those who can want him, just set him free... He can go to whoever has priority to pick him, and who wants him, for nothing in return, IMO...

Two 2nd round draft picks? And for not just Luongo... but for Luongo and Tanev? If that is even close to what will happen in the real world in dealing with Tampa, and the offers elsewhere are similar, I'd rather waive Luongo... Columbus (or whoever has first dibs on him, and has interest) can have him for nothing...

If Luongo still wants to be a Canuck, if I'm Gillis, and the offers are this underwhelming, I'd even think about trading Schneider instead... Luongo's a franchise goaltender, and IMHO, fantastic enough to win a cup (and more) with... The only problem with that though, is Schneider is like a young Luongo, who is perhaps mentally more sharp... He'll provide the Canucks with years more outstanding goaltending... That's real tough to let go of... Something tells me you wouldn't accept four 2nd's for Schneider either though ... Not that I proposed it... If I'm Gillis, I ask for a lot more than that for Schneider... Another thing is, I'm not convinced that Luongo will play his career out here, regardless if Schneider is traded or not... My feeling is that Luongo will want to play out his career out East, eventually... If true, it makes the decision to trade Schneider tough, when faced with it now...
Getting an established NHL player or players for our 2nds is in reality better than hoping the 2nds even become NHLers. But we have more than one need so we'd have to trade more than 2nds to improve. If it was at the deadline and we were a player or two away than I wouldn't mind it. Right now we don't know yet who we can get at UFA's or trade for. We also have serveral young players who we don't know if they're NHL ready. If we trade all those 2nds and maybe a few more picks our prospects we'd improve our team for next year but in 3-4 years we'd have no top end prospects to bring up and would be an old team with a bleak future. We might be able to win a cup with those kind of moves but its not a given, we need to focus on building a long term contender. The offer I also mentioned was 3 2nds for Luongo + Tanev, 2 2nds for Luongo and 1 for Tanev. It may not be what you'd want but we wouldn't want to give up much more, Schneider we'd probably give up more for.

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05-19-2012, 04:06 PM
  #121
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Hai guyz, we need an eforcer. How about David Koci? He was awesome during his time here.

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05-19-2012, 04:52 PM
  #122
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Hai guyz, we need an eforcer. How about David Koci? He was awesome during his time here.
Amtt Ackrenr

Tilt the screen back to uncover the secret.

Switch every pair of letters.

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05-20-2012, 11:27 AM
  #123
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This off-season's possibilities are too mind-boggling for me to attempt assembling a projected/predicted lineup.

I will say, I think it would be very wise to go after Ryan Suter if he becomes an UFA. Also, Justin Schultz, the NCAA star defenseman the Ducks need to sign to an ELC soon, or otherwise lose him to unrestricted free agency. In a dream case scenario, Yzerman is able to land one of those two, and in a "I must be bat **** crazy to even suggest this because its not going to happen" case scenario, he gets both of them.

Of course realistically, we're probably going to have to settle for one of Rozsival, Oduya, Garrison, Spacek or...bringing back one of Brett Clark or Filip Kuba. Yuck.

Goalie wise, there are numerous options, possibilities out there. I seriously doubt we end up with one of the two VAN goalies, and for different reasons. Bernier is unproven and I don't think he'd be worth giving up too much for. Kiprusoff may be available. Thomas might be available. Vokoun is an UFA. Josh Harding is also slated to become an UFA.

Then theres the chance we end up with none of the options listed above!

Yes, this off-season is going to be quite a bit of activity and changes made. Can't wait to see what Yzerman and Co. end up doing.


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05-20-2012, 01:57 PM
  #124
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This off-season's possibilities are too mind-boggling for me to attempt assembling a projected/predicted lineup.

I will say, I think it would be very wise to go after Ryan Suter if he becomes an UFA. Also, Justin Schultz, the NCAA star defenseman the Ducks need to sign to an ELC soon, or otherwise lose him to unrestricted free agency. In a dream case scenario, Yzerman is able to land one of those two, and in a "I must be bat **** crazy to even suggest this because its not going to happen" case scenario, he gets both of them.

Of course realistically, we're probably going to have to settle for one of Rozsival, Oduya, Garrison, Spacek or...bringing back one of Brett Clark or Filip Kuba. Yuck.

Goalie wise, there are numerous options, possibilities out there. I seriously doubt we end up with one of the two VAN goalies, and for different reasons. Bernier is unproven and I don't think he'd be worth giving up too much for. Kiprusoff may be available. Thomas might be available. Vokoun is an UFA. Josh Harding is also slated to become an UFA.

Then theres the chance we end up with none of the options listed above!

Yes, this off-season is going to be quite a bit of activity and changes made. Can't wait to see what Yzerman and Co. end up doing.
From reading the main board Justin Schultz has already signed with every team in the league. I think we won't be that active in the FA market, we really only need 3 new faces.

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05-24-2012, 05:12 PM
  #125
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Who do you propose then? Trading the farm for Schneider or Price? Everyone else in FA is washed up or as unproven as Helenius.

Brodeur?
A few of you guys have Luongo listed, I'm suggesting it in a Vancouver thread and I'll throw it out here.

Luongo for Purcell straight up.

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