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Jonas Brodin (Part II)

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08-01-2012, 12:38 AM
  #526
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And he wants to be like Lidström.

He gives it out in a shy and humble way, but seems to have the determination and potential to make it.

Im sure he uses his own time mostly to train for that, he is a no nonsense kid.

I really dont know what is the best for his development.

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08-01-2012, 12:47 AM
  #527
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ryn was being sarcastic...right?

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08-01-2012, 01:15 AM
  #528
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I think the biggest argument for Brodin starting out his career in Houston is his confidence. Even while playing in a professional mens league in Sweden Brodin was playing big minutes. To come to the NHL right away and be only playing 10-12 minutes a night with rare special teams time would be a whole new animal for him. Being the top guy and getting 20+ mins every night playing in every situation would be what he is used to and like others have pointed out would really help him adjust to the NA rink/style more quickly.

I also think starting out in Houston and growing with that group of prospects who will likely be there like Coyle, Phillips, Bulmer, Zucker, etc would be really good for him.

Question for anyone: Are there any concerns of Brodin adjusting to the physical style of the NA game and to what degree? Obviously as a defensemen he will be expected to be physical and assertive in front of his own crease as well as just in general being hit more and playing against bigger, stronger competition. Would that be another reason to start him out in Houston?

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08-01-2012, 05:57 AM
  #529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GetCluttered View Post
I think the biggest argument for Brodin starting out his career in Houston is his confidence. Even while playing in a professional mens league in Sweden Brodin was playing big minutes. To come to the NHL right away and be only playing 10-12 minutes a night with rare special teams time would be a whole new animal for him. Being the top guy and getting 20+ mins every night playing in every situation would be what he is used to and like others have pointed out would really help him adjust to the NA rink/style more quickly.

I also think starting out in Houston and growing with that group of prospects who will likely be there like Coyle, Phillips, Bulmer, Zucker, etc would be really good for him.

Question for anyone: Are there any concerns of Brodin adjusting to the physical style of the NA game and to what degree? Obviously as a defensemen he will be expected to be physical and assertive in front of his own crease as well as just in general being hit more and playing against bigger, stronger competition. Would that be another reason to start him out in Houston?
If spurgie has no issue with physicality then a smarter better skating version of him who is taller will have no issue either.

Also if you see brodin he does battle along the boards, he won't hit guys but isn't afraid to use his body to make a play.

to me i right now on our roster Brodin is a top 4 guy easily, in camp it won't surprise me one bit if Brodin-Suter gets tested, i know yeo said the "as of right now its Spurgie-Suter" but he can't speculate on Brodin being there.

Brodin-Suter

Scandella-Gilbert

and no, i don't see an issue in Brodin being able to play 20 minutes a game at all.

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08-01-2012, 08:11 AM
  #530
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Originally Posted by danccchan View Post
Why do you say that? I think he is very mobile, has a great pass, great hockey IQ and vision. His shot is okay, but the thing he struggles with is getting comfortable to join the rush and really run the offense.

However, I do think he has the tools to become a two-way defenseman.

Like you said, if you want a pure defensive defenseman, NHL is probably the right place. But if you want your 10th overall pick to become a superstar defensively but also rack up 30-40 points in a season, Houston is the place to hone some of his offensive skills and confidence.

However, if you want a 10-20pt defensive defenseman, NHL should be the right fit.

EDIT: I am projecting Brodin to become like Kim Johnsson or Kenny Jonsson, all non-physical type d-men with specialty in mobility and moving the puck. I think he has the potential into developing into these types of players. I'm hoping he develops better than a Nick Schultz or a Niklas Grossman.
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Originally Posted by Dee Oh Cee View Post
ryn was being sarcastic...right?
Sorry, yes--that was sarcasm in response to a previous post alleging that it would be writing off any chance of developing the offensive side of his game if he skipped a stint in Houston. I've said the same thing, Dan--I expect him to play the same style as Kim Johnsson. some guys just aren't suited to playing physical and assertive in front of their own net and to me he looks like he'll be that type but who knows?

I find I'm a little more optimistic about his chances of finding an offensive game in the NHL than everyone else...I think his hockey IQ is such that he'll adjust to the best of his abilities and about the same rate no matter the circumstances (i don't think the speed of the NHL game vs. Houston will hinder him) so why not let him test that side up here while providing superior defense?

It's all speculation, of course. Coaches will obviously have a long esoteric list of "readiness" criteria we'll never know about or understand how they scale. Brodin's biggest fault last year was confidence and/or deference. This year at camp he looked a lot more comfortable. Don't know if it's going to be enough for the coaches but to me he was by no stretch the biggest wallflower out there at prospect camp. The NHL camp will be a completely different test though.

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08-01-2012, 09:01 AM
  #531
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It would be silly to view Brodin's development as peaked, to say that he's never going to be an offensive Dman, so we might as well put in him in the NHL because he's smart enough to handle it now and he projects out as just a shut-down puck-mover.

He's a bean pole. He'll get stronger. And when you get stronger, so does your shot. And when that happens, you'll want me to be getting #1 minutes somewhere. You also want coaches pushing him to make offensive plays and pushing him onto the ice, rather than pushing him to play it simple and get off the ice..

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08-01-2012, 10:18 AM
  #532
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Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
It would be silly to view Brodin's development as peaked, to say that he's never going to be an offensive Dman, so we might as well put in him in the NHL because he's smart enough to handle it now and he projects out as just a shut-down puck-mover.

He's a bean pole. He'll get stronger. And when you get stronger, so does your shot. And when that happens, you'll want me to be getting #1 minutes somewhere. You also want coaches pushing him to make offensive plays and pushing him onto the ice, rather than pushing him to play it simple and get off the ice..
what people miss in him playing the role that he did is he was a KID in a DIFFERENT CULTURE on a MENS team.

he has so much potential and the way this organization has talked about him i doubt they try to limit that. I think he can work on his game in the NHL if he earns a T4 spot which i think he can, but i also feel that the team will do all they can to help him round out his game.

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08-01-2012, 10:23 AM
  #533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
It would be silly to view Brodin's development as peaked, to say that he's never going to be an offensive Dman, so we might as well put in him in the NHL because he's smart enough to handle it now and he projects out as just a shut-down puck-mover.

He's a bean pole. He'll get stronger. And when you get stronger, so does your shot. And when that happens, you'll want me to be getting #1 minutes somewhere. You also want coaches pushing him to make offensive plays and pushing him onto the ice, rather than pushing him to play it simple and get off the ice..
you haven't been paying much attention...Who said he's peaked? I'm saying he will develop just fine in the NHL. Your average Scandella can't handle it but that doesn't mean Brodin can't. #1 minutes against inferior comp...inferior to what he had been facing in the SEL and certainly in international play. Yeah, playing the game on Easy is almost as likely to teach him bad habits.

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08-01-2012, 10:32 AM
  #534
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Yeah, this seems to have gone way off track with a little sarcasm and hyperbole being taken too literally as a position that some people seriously hold.

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08-01-2012, 11:03 AM
  #535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
you haven't been paying much attention...Who said he's peaked? I'm saying he will develop just fine in the NHL. Your average Scandella can't handle it but that doesn't mean Brodin can't. #1 minutes against inferior comp...inferior to what he had been facing in the SEL and certainly in international play. Yeah, playing the game on Easy is almost as likely to teach him bad habits.
so where are we supposed to play him then, what above NHL?

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08-01-2012, 11:22 AM
  #536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forthewild View Post
If spurgie has no issue with physicality then a smarter better skating version of him who is taller will have no issue either.

Also if you see brodin he does battle along the boards, he won't hit guys but isn't afraid to use his body to make a play.

to me i right now on our roster Brodin is a top 4 guy easily, in camp it won't surprise me one bit if Brodin-Suter gets tested, i know yeo said the "as of right now its Spurgie-Suter" but he can't speculate on Brodin being there.

Brodin-Suter

Scandella-Gilbert

and no, i don't see an issue in Brodin being able to play 20 minutes a game at all.
I don't think you can make that comparason between Spurgeon and Brodin given that Spurgeon has always played in NA and naturally adapted to the game and the physicality by always playing in that style. I mean Spurgeon even played in the extremely physical and rough WHL. Brodin likewise has never played in a NA league.

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08-01-2012, 11:30 AM
  #537
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Personally, I hope that it becomes the norm for this organization that every prospect spends a full season in Houston before making the jump. Get the feel for an entire pro schedule, get a full season with the trainers, learn the systems, etc... There's more to it than just minutes on the ice.

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08-01-2012, 11:32 AM
  #538
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Originally Posted by GetCluttered View Post
I don't think you can make that comparason between Spurgeon and Brodin given that Spurgeon has always played in NA and naturally adapted to the game and the physicality by always playing in that style. I mean Spurgeon even played in the extremely physical and rough WHL. Brodin likewise has never played in a NA league.
it doesn't matter what league you play in, if you can't handle physical play you won't last, what makes spurgie handle it is his smarts, he uses his positioning to get advantage and not his body size. Brodin employs the same smarts and positioning which is why i think his size isn't the limiting factor to him. also Brodin played in a mens league sooner then spurgie did, while WHL is physical skilled players excel, where as brodin played Against men when he was 17 years old.

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08-01-2012, 11:41 AM
  #539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
Sorry, yes--that was sarcasm in response to a previous post alleging that it would be writing off any chance of developing the offensive side of his game if he skipped a stint in Houston. I've said the same thing, Dan--I expect him to play the same style as Kim Johnsson. some guys just aren't suited to playing physical and assertive in front of their own net and to me he looks like he'll be that type but who knows?

I find I'm a little more optimistic about his chances of finding an offensive game in the NHL than everyone else...I think his hockey IQ is such that he'll adjust to the best of his abilities and about the same rate no matter the circumstances (i don't think the speed of the NHL game vs. Houston will hinder him) so why not let him test that side up here while providing superior defense?

It's all speculation, of course. Coaches will obviously have a long esoteric list of "readiness" criteria we'll never know about or understand how they scale. Brodin's biggest fault last year was confidence and/or deference. This year at camp he looked a lot more comfortable. Don't know if it's going to be enough for the coaches but to me he was by no stretch the biggest wallflower out there at prospect camp. The NHL camp will be a completely different test though.
Agreed with that first part. Each players have their own playing styles. Brodin just happens to be a non-physical player who relies on agility, stickwork and hockey IQ to play and so far, it seems to be working.

On the other point, to me, I don't want to restrict him in the AHL, but would love to have him at least play a few games there. I really like Brodin, but because I love him so much, I rather play safe than sorry.

And looking at our current defensive core, I don't think Brodin's presence will make us TONS better. He's a great prospect, but still needs a few years to get to his maximum potential.

With that mind, since I don't think he will provide anything significant just quite yet, having him play top pairing minutes in the AHL would be more beneficial I think.

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08-01-2012, 11:46 AM
  #540
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Originally Posted by danccchan View Post
Agreed with that first part. Each players have their own playing styles. Brodin just happens to be a non-physical player who relies on agility, stickwork and hockey IQ to play and so far, it seems to be working.

On the other point, to me, I don't want to restrict him in the AHL, but would love to have him at least play a few games there. I really like Brodin, but because I love him so much, I rather play safe than sorry.

And looking at our current defensive core, I don't think Brodin's presence will make us TONS better. He's a great prospect, but still needs a few years to get to his maximum potential.

With that mind, since I don't think he will provide anything significant just quite yet, having him play top pairing minutes in the AHL would be more beneficial I think.
how so, he played with men at World and stood out, having a guy who can move the puck and transition to the forwards while being a rock solid guy in his own end is going to make us tons better. Also playing him 18+ minutes a game and maybe even over 20 on 2nd pp is going to help him develop quite a bit.

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08-01-2012, 12:04 PM
  #541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forthewild View Post
how so, he played with men at World and stood out, having a guy who can move the puck and transition to the forwards while being a rock solid guy in his own end is going to make us tons better. Also playing him 18+ minutes a game and maybe even over 20 on 2nd pp is going to help him develop quite a bit.
You comfortable giving Brodin #1 pairing minutes in the NHL?

Obviously, we have to wait till training camp, but I highly doubt he is a #1-2 NHL defenseman at this moment.

Also, IMO, Brodin stood out as a talented young kid at the WC, not as a key member. Thats an important distinction, great player for his age, not a great player just yet.

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08-01-2012, 02:30 PM
  #542
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I would be absolutely amazed if Spurgeon played nearly as many minutes as Suter. Suter should be getting 25+ nightly. So it wouldn't be all that surprising if, say, Brodin makes the lineup and takes some shifts with Suter.

I can't believe Scandella has peaked at 22 years old. That's ridiculous.

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08-01-2012, 02:40 PM
  #543
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Also, IMO, Brodin stood out as a talented young kid at the WC
He stood out as Swedens best defenseman who was thrown out there in every key moment.

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08-01-2012, 02:51 PM
  #544
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Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
you haven't been paying much attention...Who said he's peaked? I'm saying he will develop just fine in the NHL. Your average Scandella can't handle it but that doesn't mean Brodin can't. #1 minutes against inferior comp...inferior to what he had been facing in the SEL and certainly in international play. Yeah, playing the game on Easy is almost as likely to teach him bad habits.
I am making an observation of people's views based on their post. Many people appear to be viewing Brodin as a finished product in the sense that they don't think he's going to add a lot of new skills. Not in the sense that he won't continue to build and improve his already existing skill set, because everybody agrees that he will.

As for Scandella vs. Brodin, that kind of logic is always used to justify pushing the next "top prospect" into the NHL. Disregard the previous "top prospect" as not worthy, and then just claim that the new guy is a completely different player. It's partially true, but it's partially untrue. At the end of the day, only a very few young players each year go from the CHL or the Euro leagues successfully.

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08-01-2012, 02:57 PM
  #545
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I just have one simple question: What's the rush?

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08-01-2012, 03:02 PM
  #546
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Why not if he's ready?

We'll find out in camp.

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08-01-2012, 03:11 PM
  #547
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Why not if he's ready?

We'll find out in camp.
I agree with that....if the coaching staff think he's ready to handle a 82 game NHL schedule, then by all means....but if there is any question or they aren't totally sure, then start him out in Houston and move him up when they think the time is right.

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08-01-2012, 04:35 PM
  #548
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I do thing that the thing against him would be that I don't think he is strong enough and physical for the NHL right away, let him adjust to the NA hockey in AHL.

I don't see any rush either, sure his puck handling and hockey sense is NHL ready. I'm not saying he wouldn't be able to handle his own but I think it's better when thinking longer to let hm have 1 year in AHL

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08-01-2012, 04:41 PM
  #549
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I just have one simple question: What's the rush?
those who think he's ready for the NHL don't think it's a rush. at least not in the negative sense of the word you mean it. He looked good enough in prospect camp in the areas he needed improvement on last year. Like I said--the main camp will be a different beast and he might go back to looking over-conservative (or shy, whichever way you want to look at at it). He has another year of pros under his belt and a big-boy world tournament to give him a little perspective--he shouldn't be too lost.

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08-01-2012, 05:58 PM
  #550
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If he's not going to make the roster right out of the gate, I prefer he goes back to Sweden and continues to develop there. Another year slides on his contract and he's making progress there anyway. Don't see how being in Houston helps his game markedly more than being back in the SEL would.

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