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Jonas Brodin (Part II)

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08-01-2012, 06:29 PM
  #551
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Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
those who think he's ready for the NHL don't think it's a rush. at least not in the negative sense of the word you mean it. He looked good enough in prospect camp in the areas he needed improvement on last year. Like I said--the main camp will be a different beast and he might go back to looking over-conservative (or shy, whichever way you want to look at at it). He has another year of pros under his belt and a big-boy world tournament to give him a little perspective--he shouldn't be too lost.
The issue is, most of the people who advocate for him to start on the Wild don't do it because "he's NHL ready" but because "he's better than Prosser/Falk/Stoner." The quality of our NHL D-corps is completely irrelevant to whether he should be in the NHL or not. If the best path for his development is in the NHL, put him there. But even if he outplays our other 6-7-8 defensemen, he still might be best served in Houston. If that's where he'll develop best, that's where he needs to be, regardless of the rest of the team.

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08-01-2012, 08:57 PM
  #552
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
The issue is, most of the people who advocate for him to start on the Wild don't do it because "he's NHL ready" but because "he's better than Prosser/Falk/Stoner." The quality of our NHL D-corps is completely irrelevant to whether he should be in the NHL or not. If the best path for his development is in the NHL, put him there. But even if he outplays our other 6-7-8 defensemen, he still might be best served in Houston. If that's where he'll develop best, that's where he needs to be, regardless of the rest of the team.
I agree with this post.

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08-01-2012, 11:45 PM
  #553
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He stood out as Swedens best defenseman who was thrown out there in every key moment.
Guess I saw differently.

I didn't see him on the PP, nor did I see him play top PK minutes. Correct me if I am wrong but I see he played 17:11 average ice time, thats behind Niklas Kronwall, Niklas Hjalmarsson, Erik Karlsson, and Victor Hedman. The only regular on the team he managed to beat was Staffan Kronwall (who plays in the KHL).

Albeit, Hedman was terrible, he did not outplay N.Kronwall, Hjalmarsson or Karlsson. Brodin looked GREAT for a 19-year old, but he did not stand out compared to the rest of the Swedish defense.

I agree with squidz. He may outplay a few of our guys at defense, but I don't think its serves him best development wise. While this comparison might spark up a few flames, I think we saw something similar in Sheppard.

Sheppard looked good in his first season as a rookie, he even outplayed a few guys (fringe NHLers though). Then, his development just stagnated, never had the chance to develop his offensive game, and then just disappeared.

Brodin might be able to play in the NHL, but I don't just want him to play here, I want him to dominate, and to do that, I want him to build up some confidence and grow comfortable to the NA style of play (smaller rinks, more physical), add a few more pounds of muscle, and get some PP time to develop his offensive side. I think that will serve him best.

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08-01-2012, 11:52 PM
  #554
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Knock on wood, friend. To compare Brodin to Sheppard... No. Don't.

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08-02-2012, 12:04 AM
  #555
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I would like ask those more experienced with prospects that how much would mental aspects effect their development and potential?

I look at their personalities a lot.

Compared to Sheppard out top prospects look and sound very mature for their age, humble, intelligent, competitive and have a good work ethic.

Am i giving it too much value?

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08-02-2012, 12:04 AM
  #556
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Knock on wood, friend. To compare Brodin to Sheppard... No. Don't.
Not comparing the players. Comparing the future development route, the route I DON'T want to take. Difference

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08-02-2012, 12:08 AM
  #557
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I'd rather err on the side of caution with Brodin. Yes, he did play in a league with men. Because of that, I understand those who would like him to make the Wild. But let him get acclimated with the North American game in Houston. If people here are convinced that the Wild every year are destined to be ravaged by major injuries, you'll see Brodin on the roster at some point next year.

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08-02-2012, 12:11 AM
  #558
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Originally Posted by WildFinn View Post
I would like ask those more experienced with prospects that how much would mental aspects effect their development and potential?

I look at their personalities a lot.

Compared to Sheppard out top prospects look and sound very mature for their age, humble, intelligent, competitive and have a good work ethic.

Am i giving it too much value?
Tons IMO

If they aren't determined, they won't put on muscles as fast, they won't be athletic enough for the NHL.

If they aren't realistic enough, they'll be trying to develop parts of their game which really isn't there. I don't think Spurgeon would be spending hours and hours on fighting skills...

If they aren't confident enough, they'll lose their drive to improve themselves, they'll be less poised on the ice and creating more and more turnovers.

I think you are right to thinking character plays alot into development.

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08-02-2012, 12:21 AM
  #559
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Tons IMO

If they aren't determined, they won't put on muscles as fast, they won't be athletic enough for the NHL.

If they aren't realistic enough, they'll be trying to develop parts of their game which really isn't there. I don't think Spurgeon would be spending hours and hours on fighting skills...

If they aren't confident enough, they'll lose their drive to improve themselves, they'll be less poised on the ice and creating more and more turnovers.

I think you are right to thinking character plays alot into development.
That's what I liked so much about Bulmer this past year. He gained about 20 pounds and did exactly what they told him to do. Few prospects work that hard to improve themselves but hopefully Brodin can follow suit.

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08-02-2012, 12:44 AM
  #560
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That's what I liked so much about Bulmer this past year. He gained about 20 pounds and did exactly what they told him to do. Few prospects work that hard to improve themselves but hopefully Brodin can follow suit.
I see Bulmer totally different compared to Coyle, Phillips types in the development process.

Sometimes i think these skill players, thinking the game as a playmaker, have tons of stuff running in their minds.

Some things come from outside but most come from within, they can think too much and want to be perfect, often get this feeling with Granlund.

You can see it when they keep the puck too long or try a play that others dont get.

If you group these types in the same line it could get Wild.

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08-02-2012, 08:44 AM
  #561
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
The issue is, most of the people who advocate for him to start on the Wild don't do it because "he's NHL ready" but because "he's better than Prosser/Falk/Stoner." The quality of our NHL D-corps is completely irrelevant to whether he should be in the NHL or not. If the best path for his development is in the NHL, put him there. But even if he outplays our other 6-7-8 defensemen, he still might be best served in Houston. If that's where he'll develop best, that's where he needs to be, regardless of the rest of the team.
personally i do it for both. The quality of our D may be irrelevant to you, but it isn't to me--our defensemen as a group have been awful the last couple of years and put more pressure not only on our goalies but on our forwards as they end up spending too much time out of the offensive zone and too much energy defending.

You assume playing in the NHL will somehow stunt his growth, and I assume it won't. That's what it comes down to.

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08-02-2012, 09:33 AM
  #562
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Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
personally i do it for both. The quality of our D may be irrelevant to you, but it isn't to me--our defensemen as a group have been awful the last couple of years and put more pressure not only on our goalies but on our forwards as they end up spending too much time out of the offensive zone and too much energy defending.

You assume playing in the NHL will somehow stunt his growth, and I assume it won't. That's what it comes down to.
For me, I don't want to think. But what I do know is, sending him to the AHL is a no risk/all win situation. For me, I don't want to take a chance.

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08-02-2012, 10:40 AM
  #563
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
The issue is, most of the people who advocate for him to start on the Wild don't do it because "he's NHL ready" but because "he's better than Prosser/Falk/Stoner." The quality of our NHL D-corps is completely irrelevant to whether he should be in the NHL or not. If the best path for his development is in the NHL, put him there. But even if he outplays our other 6-7-8 defensemen, he still might be best served in Houston. If that's where he'll develop best, that's where he needs to be, regardless of the rest of the team.
This.

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08-02-2012, 10:43 AM
  #564
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i think it's entirely reasonable for people to want him (or any prospect) to start in houston but i personally don't think it's necessary or even beneficial in Brodin's case. I trust our coaching/management staff though so if he's not up on the big team at the beginning or as soon as we can make some trades then I'll be forced to admit I'm wrong. I think fletcher will attempt to move players if he thinks some of our prospects can handle it and that might take a little time.

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08-02-2012, 10:57 AM
  #565
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With Prosser's two year deal, I don't think there's much fear of anyone snatching him away on waivers unless they're really really desperate for defensive depth. While I can see Fletcher being afraid of putting Falk on waivers, I don't think there's any worry that he might lose Prosser if we're forced into sending someone down.

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08-02-2012, 11:09 AM
  #566
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I still haven't seen anybody explain the benefits of keeping him in the NHL in a bottom-pairing role over getting #1 minutes in the AHL with getting plenty of NHL experience when injuries hit.

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08-02-2012, 11:43 AM
  #567
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I still haven't seen anybody explain the benefits of keeping him in the NHL in a bottom-pairing role over getting #1 minutes in the AHL with getting plenty of NHL experience when injuries hit.
there is no benefit at all and it won't happen. He will either complete the T4 of Suter, Gilbert, Scandy or Spugie or will play else where. i highly doubt he plays 3rd pairing, if he isn't in the top 4 he isn't here.

this is how i feel about it any ways

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08-02-2012, 12:44 PM
  #568
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I still haven't seen anybody explain the benefits of keeping him in the NHL in a bottom-pairing role over getting #1 minutes in the AHL with getting plenty of NHL experience when injuries hit.
the benefit is we have a better hockey player on the team who stands to gain more experience from playing against higher competition than he would taking a step down from playing in the SEL to Houston. Pretty much the same benefit as having Granlund play in the NHL vs shipping him off to Houston.

edit: the bottom pairing stuff is a non issue depending on how we use our defensemen. saying "bottom pair" doesn't mean he won't end up top 4 in TOI.

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08-02-2012, 12:59 PM
  #569
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edit: the bottom pairing stuff is a non issue depending on how we use our defensemen. saying "bottom pair" doesn't mean he won't end up top 4 in TOI.
See, people keep saying this, but then don't back it up with any logic or anything. Generally, if a player is a "bottom pairing defender" but ends up with more ice time it's because he plays special teams. Brodin will not be on either special teams unit at the NHL level this year (unless we're ravaged by injuries). Suter will get 25 minutes, presumably mostly with Spurgeon. Scandella-Gilbert is a pairing that could easily top 20 minutes. If Spurgeon doesn't get full time alongside Suter, he'll almost certainly be replaced with Gilbert. Out of 120 defensive minutes in a game, Suter will get 25, Gilbert will get about the same. Scandella and Spurgeon will be in the 20-22 minute range. That leaves 26-30 minutes for the bottom two defenders.

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08-02-2012, 01:20 PM
  #570
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another opinion. Brodin might very well take minutes away from scandella or spurgeon. why wouldn't he be on special teams? Especially the PK?

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08-02-2012, 01:35 PM
  #571
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another opinion. Brodin might very well take minutes away from scandella or spurgeon. why wouldn't he be on special teams? Especially the PK?
Exactly. I could easily envision him getting time on the PK.

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08-02-2012, 01:58 PM
  #572
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I still haven't seen anybody explain the benefits of keeping him in the NHL in a bottom-pairing role over getting #1 minutes in the AHL with getting plenty of NHL experience when injuries hit.
1. Playing against NHL players, not AHL players
2. Playing with NHL players
3. Training with NHL Pro's - players and staff
4. Practicing with NHL Pro's - players and staff
5. Spending time with experienced NHL Pro's: pre-game, post-game, on the road...

There are advantages to Brodin going to the AHL, no doubt. But you're not claiming there are no advantages at all jumping right into the NHL if a player is ready, are you?

I'm confortable with letting the Coaching Staff, Fletch and the player personnel people make the decision. Seems kind of premature to me to be so adamant about it one way or the other, before the start of Training Camp, even.

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08-02-2012, 02:00 PM
  #573
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another opinion. Brodin might very well take minutes away from scandella or spurgeon. why wouldn't he be on special teams? Especially the PK?
He won't be on the PP, that's not really debatable. As for the PK, we have 4 penalty killing defensemen with experience over him who don't need to try adapt to North American ice. That's an area where the ice size can be especially important. He might end the season on the PK, but it would be astonishing if he started the season there.

As for "taking minutes from Spurgeon and Scandella," with one of those you're moving him from right to left defenseman, which isn't going to happen for a 19 year old rookie. With the other, it's plausible, but not as likely as Gilbert being the one taking minutes from Spurgeon. Either way, you're still looking at maybe 15 minutes a night for him at the upper end of the spectrum.

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08-02-2012, 02:06 PM
  #574
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He won't be on the PP, that's not really debatable.
Link?

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08-02-2012, 02:57 PM
  #575
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Link?
Suter, Spurgeon, Gilbert, Cullen, Bouchard.

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