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Jonas Brodin (Part II)

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Old
08-02-2012, 04:40 PM
  #576
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
Suter, Spurgeon, Gilbert, Cullen, Bouchard.
Anything can happen as long as he gets a chance. But I don't think he will be in the NHL this season anyway.

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08-02-2012, 05:42 PM
  #577
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Originally Posted by Wildfish View Post
1. Playing against NHL players, not AHL players
2. Playing with NHL players
3. Training with NHL Pro's - players and staff
4. Practicing with NHL Pro's - players and staff
5. Spending time with experienced NHL Pro's: pre-game, post-game, on the road...

There are advantages to Brodin going to the AHL, no doubt. But you're not claiming there are no advantages at all jumping right into the NHL if a player is ready, are you?

I'm confortable with letting the Coaching Staff, Fletch and the player personnel people make the decision. Seems kind of premature to me to be so adamant about it one way or the other, before the start of Training Camp, even.
If those were only "benefits", then it would make sense to throw every player in the NHL once they have been drafted.

However, everything you mentioned is ALSO a negative. Playing against NHL players means you get owned and physically punished, destroying confidence. Playing with NHL players means you get less play time. Training and practicing with NHL Pro's means that you are in a subordinate, introverted role. Being under NHL coaches means that they care less about your development and more about winning.

I think the problem I have is with posters just conclusorily deeming him "NHL-ready", and then just sitting down like they've made a legitmate argument.

On an individual level, I've seen nothing in Brodin's game that would say that he's a lock for the NHL and will therefore benefit more from making the team. I see a very good, but still unfinished player, who has a long way to go to become the dominate force we all know he can be.

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08-02-2012, 06:36 PM
  #578
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Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
If those were only "benefits", then it would make sense to throw every player in the NHL once they have been drafted.

However, everything you mentioned is ALSO a negative. Playing against NHL players means you get owned and physically punished, destroying confidence. Playing with NHL players means you get less play time. Training and practicing with NHL Pro's means that you are in a subordinate, introverted role. Being under NHL coaches means that they care less about your development and more about winning.

I think the problem I have is with posters just conclusorily deeming him "NHL-ready", and then just sitting down like they've made a legitmate argument.

On an individual level, I've seen nothing in Brodin's game that would say that he's a lock for the NHL and will therefore benefit more from making the team. I see a very good, but still unfinished player, who has a long way to go to become the dominate force we all know he can be.
Of course he's unfinished. You think RNH isn't going to get better? No one is arguing he's done developing. I love that your "problem I have" paragraph is followed up by stating an argument based solely on your own opinion, much as mine is. Yet yours is (i'm assuming) by contrast "legitimate". What you "see". Well done.

I say he's NHL ready because i've been told he's NHL ready. I get my opinion there from others. What I'm working on only off my own opinion is if he's ready enough to A) justify moving one of our other D and B) if playing in the NHL will slow his development as a player.

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08-02-2012, 08:17 PM
  #579
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I see zero reason why Brodin if he makes the team won't get PK time and have it ramp up as he becomes more comfortable. i don't care if prosser/falk have had more NA pK time they probably won't be as good as brodin.

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08-02-2012, 08:47 PM
  #580
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What if they do well in camp and blast the AHL, should we make room for all of them.

Granlund-Larsson-Setoguchi

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08-02-2012, 08:52 PM
  #581
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Originally Posted by forthewild View Post
I see zero reason why Brodin if he makes the team won't get PK time and have it ramp up as he becomes more comfortable. i don't care if prosser/falk have had more NA pK time they probably won't be as good as brodin.
Shorthanded TOI/game 2011-2012
Gilbert - 3:12 - Highest on Minnesota
Scandella - 2:24 - Highest regular Wild defenseman
Suter - 2:20 - Highest on Nashville (other than players who were traded)
Spurgeon - 1:42 - Wasn't on PK to start the year

Falk - 2:19
Prosser - 2:04
Stoner - 1:39

I can't find any TOI info for the SEL, but if I recall correctly, Brodin wasn't playing much for PK time last year. It's possible that Yeo would put him on the PK, but I think that would be the less likely scenario, at least to start the season.

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08-02-2012, 09:01 PM
  #582
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
Shorthanded TOI/game 2011-2012
Gilbert - 3:12 - Highest on Minnesota
Scandella - 2:24 - Highest regular Wild defenseman
Suter - 2:20 - Highest on Nashville (other than players who were traded)
Spurgeon - 1:42 - Wasn't on PK to start the year

Falk - 2:19
Prosser - 2:04
Stoner - 1:39

I can't find any TOI info for the SEL, but if I recall correctly, Brodin wasn't playing much for PK time last year. It's possible that Yeo would put him on the PK, but I think that would be the less likely scenario, at least to start the season.
he actually did play on the PK quite a bit and did so in WJC, his skill set is just suited so well, i think he starts getting some time and it ramps up as he becomes more comfortable in that role tho.

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08-02-2012, 09:13 PM
  #583
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
It's possible that Yeo would put him on the PK, but I think that would be the less likely scenario, at least to start the season.
i agree he wouldn't be a primary PKer until he was tested. That comes down to faith for me too--he's already great at just getting the puck out of danger (without having to worry about creating a breakout play or whathaveyou) so PK seems like it would come easy. His skating will bail him out while he's working on positioning on Yeo's PK system.

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08-03-2012, 09:06 AM
  #584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
If those were only "benefits", then it would make sense to throw every player in the NHL once they have been drafted.

However, everything you mentioned is ALSO a negative. Playing against NHL players means you get owned and physically punished, destroying confidence. Playing with NHL players means you get less play time. Training and practicing with NHL Pro's means that you are in a subordinate, introverted role. Being under NHL coaches means that they care less about your development and more about winning.

I think the problem I have is with posters just conclusorily deeming him "NHL-ready", and then just sitting down like they've made a legitmate argument.

On an individual level, I've seen nothing in Brodin's game that would say that he's a lock for the NHL and will therefore benefit more from making the team. I see a very good, but still unfinished player, who has a long way to go to become the dominate force we all know he can be.
First comment, just a red herring, we're specifically discussing one elite player, not "every" player.

You posted you couldn't see any advantages to making the NHL roster; I posted five. You claim everything I posted was also a negative; that I don't see at all for the last three, probably four. The training and practicing with the pro's rationaliztion was very weak IMO - "subordinate, introverted role" during drills? In the weight room?

As far as the Confidence argument, you're making the assumption he'll fail. Who says he'll get owned and dominated? You know that for a fact? Or will he hold his own and gain confidence? If he does start to struggle, you send him down, just like the team did with Scandella last year.

TOI - Quality vs Quantity. People did research and posted PK TOI. Stating as fact that he won't get PK time is another assumption, the time IS there if Yeo wants to give it to him.


Quote:
I think the problem I have is with posters just conclusorily deeming him "NHL-ready", and then just sitting down like they've made a legitmate argument.
If you're posting this at me, you haven't read my opinion on the subject. I'd have absolutely no problem with Brodin starting in Houston. On the other hand, if the powers that be in the organization think he'd be better served starting in the NHL, great, I'm good with that, too. My opinion, or problem, to use your term, is with people who arbitrarily have decided the only right answer is to send him to Houston, refuse to acknowledge possible and obvious advantages to the other course of action, then just sit down like they've made a legitimate argument.

My point - let the professionals decide. There's clearly two legitimate options here, both have arguments pro and con, it isn't a one way no brainer answer. Fine to have an opinion one way or the other, but to declare that one option is the "right" answer and the other option has no merit...


Last edited by Wildfish: 08-03-2012 at 09:13 AM.
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Old
08-03-2012, 11:09 AM
  #585
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Originally Posted by Wildfish View Post
First comment, just a red herring, we're specifically discussing one elite player, not "every" player.

You posted you couldn't see any advantages to making the NHL roster; I posted five. You claim everything I posted was also a negative; that I don't see at all for the last three, probably four. The training and practicing with the pro's rationaliztion was very weak IMO - "subordinate, introverted role" during drills? In the weight room?

As far as the Confidence argument, you're making the assumption he'll fail. Who says he'll get owned and dominated? You know that for a fact? Or will he hold his own and gain confidence? If he does start to struggle, you send him down, just like the team did with Scandella last year.

TOI - Quality vs Quantity. People did research and posted PK TOI. Stating as fact that he won't get PK time is another assumption, the time IS there if Yeo wants to give it to him.
No, I didn't say I can't see any benefits of Brodin in the NHL. I said I haven't seen anybody make the case for why Brodin, individually, should be on the Wild instead of down in Houston.

I see a lot of people laying out why Houston would be better for Brodin.

But very few are laying out why Brodin's development would be better on the Wild than in Houston. It's just a lot of "Brodin's development wouldn't be hurt." Or "he's good enough for the NHL." Or, "I'm open-minded. Not closed minded like the-AHL-is-the-way-to-go crew. Whatever the Wild brass does is the right choice."

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08-03-2012, 11:18 AM
  #586
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If Brodin comes into camp, and blows the doors off the X, secures a spot in the top pairing next to Suter, very few are going to demand that he plays in the AHL.

But, there is nothing wrong with tempering expectations and being realistic. Or pointing out that young players learn A LOT in the AHL. Especially European players. Or forwards that need to learn to player a two-way game, or Dmen that could develop their offense.

Especially when Houston is going to be stacked with great players next year who will really help each other become better players.

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08-03-2012, 11:18 AM
  #587
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I think the whole matter of whether he should play in the A or the NHL is hashed out already. There's good and bad sides in both options.

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08-03-2012, 11:32 AM
  #588
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i think the whole matter of whether he should play in the a or the nhl is hashed out already. There's good and bad sides in both options.
but it's too many months until the season starts. We can't wait. Because we are going to be great this year. Need something to discuss!!!


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08-03-2012, 03:37 PM
  #589
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But, there is nothing wrong with tempering expectations and being realistic.
Unless you are talking about Granlund!

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08-04-2012, 08:54 AM
  #590
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Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
yeah, because outside of time in Houston there's no chance of him developing offensively or honing a two-way game. no chance at all. Karlsson and OEL are both players who are known for their offensive game and (still) need to work on their defensive game. Brodin has that already. Not really comparable players. Hedman started playing right away due in no small part to his size. Look, you aren't going to convince me. Not that it makes any difference but you forgot to add adam Larsson as one of the more obvious SEL to NHL transplants.
OEL was the best defensive defenseman on the Yotes last year and is certainly better than Brodin in his own end as we speak.

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08-04-2012, 09:04 AM
  #591
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OEL was the best defensive defenseman on the Yotes last year and is certainly better than Brodin in his own end as we speak.
is he? great!

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08-04-2012, 03:06 PM
  #592
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Why isn't Brodin included in this? Is it because he might be playing pro here?

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=639109

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08-04-2012, 03:13 PM
  #593
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Why isn't Brodin included in this? Is it because he might be playing pro here?

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=639109
In a word, yes.

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08-04-2012, 03:22 PM
  #594
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Good enough for me

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08-04-2012, 07:01 PM
  #595
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First pre season game today. Brodin did not play even tho he is practicing with us.

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08-04-2012, 07:08 PM
  #596
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maybe he's secretly injured!?

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08-04-2012, 07:09 PM
  #597
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And let's start the drama!

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08-04-2012, 07:28 PM
  #598
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Our GM has probably ruled him out and therefore they don't want him to be in the lineups.

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08-04-2012, 07:31 PM
  #599
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If Brodin stayed another year in the SEL, I wonder if he could score a regular season goal.

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08-05-2012, 12:03 AM
  #600
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maybe he's secretly injured!?
Groin injury?

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