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Patrick Marleau to Toronto

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Old
04-29-2012, 07:12 PM
  #51
matt trick
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Teams potentially interested in Marleau.

Detroit, Wsh, Bos, Chi, La, St. Louis, Nsh, Phoenix among contenders.

Buffalo, Anaheim for center depth.

Edmonton or Winnipeg to provide size and mentorship without reducing speed.

He'd be a great fit as Duchene's wing.

Florida for scoring depth.

Calgary and Toronto could use him, buy shouldn't use assets on someone his age.

Fast, big, two-way 30 goal scorers can pretty much always find a spot in lineups. Send a 3 million contract back and all but a
few teams can find a spot for him given he plays any position in all situations.

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04-29-2012, 07:24 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baba Booey View Post
Remember guys Phil Kessel is a top 5 player in this league.
He was 6th in points on a terrible team with a brutal center and a missing linemate for 15 games?

I'd say that's pretty good

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04-29-2012, 08:14 PM
  #53
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Marleau has a NMC. Wife and kids love the SJ area. Even if he didn't have a NMC, Toronto and SJ don't make good trade partners for significant deals.

All of the subjective opinions of Marleau aside, he wouldn't even consider a deal to Toronto. Why do Leafs fans keep making these threads?

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04-29-2012, 08:21 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by ginovegas View Post
washed up and overpayed, why would the leafs want him
How is netting another 30 goal season at the age of 32 washed up?

Marleau has avoided injury throughout his career and his style of play will allow him to play until he is 40 if he wants to.

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04-29-2012, 08:31 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avec Fromage View Post
Marleau: 82 gms, 64 pts
Lupul: 66 gms, 67 pts
Since the lock out:

Marleau: 549 GP 234 G 269 A 503 P

Lupul: 430 GP 138 G 154 A 292 P (Traded 4 times)

Lupul had a great year and out produced Marleau in PPG, but Marleau is the much more valuable and consistent of the two.

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04-29-2012, 09:08 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Clowe Me View Post
Since the lock out:

Marleau: 549 GP 234 G 269 A 503 P

Lupul: 430 GP 138 G 154 A 292 P (Traded 4 times)

Lupul had a great year and out produced Marleau in PPG, but Marleau is the much more valuable and consistent of the two.
#1. The person I quoted said that no one on the Leafs outside of Kessel was even "close" to Marleau in terms of skill. This season, Lupul was the better player AINEC.

#2. We're not looking at numbers since the lockout; production four/five/six/seven years back is irrelevant. Ovechkin scored 65 goals a few years back, doesn't mean he's a 65-goal scorer today. Looking at recent statistics:

Quote:
Marleau's numbers have been on a steady decline.

2009-10: 83 pts in 82 games
2010-11: 73 pts in 82 games
2011-12: 64 pts in 82 games

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04-29-2012, 10:00 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avec Fromage View Post
#1. The person I quoted said that no one on the Leafs outside of Kessel was even "close" to Marleau in terms of skill. This season, Lupul was the better player AINEC.

#2. We're not looking at numbers since the lockout; production four/five/six/seven years back is irrelevant. Ovechkin scored 65 goals a few years back, doesn't mean he's a 65-goal scorer today. Looking at recent statistics:
Lupul was the better player? Since when? Just because you outproduce someone doesn't make you automatically the better player...let alone the whole AINEC nonsense. Marleau does more things on the ice that don't show up on a stat sheet than Lupul. His overall game is far better than Lupul's, even on his best year. You want to look at the last three years, well Marleau is still a 30 goal scorer while Lupul has been injured for the most part. Why do you conveniently ignore that and just focus on this year and just the offensive point production that Lupul got mostly from just giving the puck to Kessel and letting him make the plays?

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04-29-2012, 10:26 PM
  #58
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Lupul was the better player? Since when? Just because you outproduce someone doesn't make you automatically the better player...let alone the whole AINEC nonsense. Marleau does more things on the ice that don't show up on a stat sheet than Lupul. His overall game is far better than Lupul's, even on his best year. You want to look at the last three years, well Marleau is still a 30 goal scorer while Lupul has been injured for the most part. Why do you conveniently ignore that and just focus on this year and just the offensive point production that Lupul got mostly from just giving the puck to Kessel and letting him make the plays?
If you think all Lupul did this year was give the puck to Kessel, than you're the one who is completely ignoring everything he did. Shows you don't know s---, tbqh.

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04-29-2012, 10:30 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Avec Fromage View Post

#2. We're not looking at numbers since the lockout; production four/five/six/seven years back is irrelevant. Ovechkin scored 65 goals a few years back, doesn't mean he's a 65-goal scorer today. Looking at recent statistics:
Why not? They have both been full-time Nhlers in that time. Someone said Lupul was on Marleau's level, I provided the numbers to show he isn't. If you want to go by small 1 season sample size, sure.

Also, Marleau's goal total this year was better than any in Lupul's career. Not bad for "garbage", as one Leafs fan called him.

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04-29-2012, 10:45 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Clowe Me View Post
Why not? They have both been full-time Nhlers in that time. Someone said Lupul was on Marleau's level, I provided the numbers to show he isn't. If you want to go by small 1 season sample size, sure.

Also, Marleau's goal total this year was better than any in Lupul's career. Not bad for "garbage", as one Leafs fan called him.
Why not? Because it's moronic. For one thing, how good a player was seven years ago has nothing to do with how good they are today. If the Leafs were to trade for Marleau, they would be trading for current-Marleau - just like how when they traded for Lupul, he was a cap dump. On another note, you're going to compare a ~22 year-old sophmore Lupul to a 28-year-old Marleau? It makes no sense.

Going by age comparison, Marleau broke out when he was 28 (2005-06), he had 86 points - his previous high was 57. This year, Lupul is 28, he was on pace for 83 points - his previous high was 53.

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04-29-2012, 11:19 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Avec Fromage View Post
If you think all Lupul did this year was give the puck to Kessel, than you're the one who is completely ignoring everything he did. Shows you don't know s---, tbqh.
It was actually a taste of what you've been spewing out in this thread. The thought that Lupul was the better player this season is laughable. Then to put that it wasn't even close just screams an incredible amount of ignorance on the matter. Lupul had a better statistical offensive season but he was nowhere near the better player.

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04-30-2012, 10:25 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Avec Fromage View Post
Why not? Because it's moronic. For one thing, how good a player was seven years ago has nothing to do with how good they are today. If the Leafs were to trade for Marleau, they would be trading for current-Marleau - just like how when they traded for Lupul, he was a cap dump. On another note, you're going to compare a ~22 year-old sophmore Lupul to a 28-year-old Marleau? It makes no sense.

Going by age comparison, Marleau broke out when he was 28 (2005-06), he had 86 points - his previous high was 57. This year, Lupul is 28, he was on pace for 83 points - his previous high was 53.
Cumulative stats are moronic? Because they give a broader picture of each players performance? Going simply by last year is moronic.

As it stands, Lupul's high in a season is 67. He totaled 45 in 79 games in the previous 2 years. Marleau has 220 in that time. Attrition is also part of valuing a player, and Lupul's health brings his value down. In Marleau's 14-year career, he has never played fewer than 74 games, and has played in 80+ in 9 of those years. Lupul has only played in 80+ games twice in 8 years

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04-30-2012, 11:51 AM
  #63
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I'd trade for marleu.. What's the asking price? Leafs 100% need a centre and kessel lupul marleau would be a fantastic line.. If it was possible to acquire him without using Jake gardiner I'd be interested. If move the fifth if galchenyuk and grigorenko are off the board at 5.. Leaf fans act so entitled... How many players in the last 10 years have played for the leafs have meleau"s pedigree? How mAny team Canada Olympians have played for the leafs? Theres a reason why the leafs never get the top ufa's, this is why burke needs to trade and why is welcome mArleau. We have phill kessel mat sundin and mogilny to hang our hats on.. Wake up leaf nation.

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04-30-2012, 12:19 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Clowe Me View Post
Cumulative stats are moronic? Because they give a broader picture of each players performance? Going simply by last year is moronic.

As it stands, Lupul's high in a season is 67. He totaled 45 in 79 games in the previous 2 years. Marleau has 220 in that time. Attrition is also part of valuing a player, and Lupul's health brings his value down. In Marleau's 14-year career, he has never played fewer than 74 games, and has played in 80+ in 9 of those years. Lupul has only played in 80+ games twice in 8 years
I went by a three-year span; that's fair. Going back any more than that is ridiculous. The reason Marleau never gets injured is because he's soft. Marleau had 84 hits in 82 games. Lupul had 110 in 66.

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04-30-2012, 01:28 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Avec Fromage View Post
I went by a three-year span; that's fair. Going back any more than that is ridiculous. The reason Marleau never gets injured is because he's soft. Marleau had 84 hits in 82 games. Lupul had 110 in 66.
So, if you don't hit a lot, you're soft? That is ********. By your logic, Lidstrom is a terribly soft defenseman.

You went back 3 years to make the argument that marleau was regressing. You never made the argument that Lupul was on his level based on the last 3 years. But, I guess you really can't seeing as Marleau has put up 220 pts in 246 games vs 112 in 143 games.

You have no argument for Lupul being on the same level as Marleau, besides 1 fluke year, do you?

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04-30-2012, 03:27 PM
  #66
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So, if you don't hit a lot, you're soft? That is ********. By your logic, Lidstrom is a terribly soft defenseman.

You went back 3 years to make the argument that marleau was regressing. You never made the argument that Lupul was on his level based on the last 3 years. But, I guess you really can't seeing as Marleau has put up 220 pts in 246 games vs 112 in 143 games.

You have no argument for Lupul being on the same level as Marleau, besides 1 fluke year, do you?
Marleau is regressing, the stats don't lie. Lupul had major injuries the last two years, so you're going to judge him off of that?

Lupul...
  • had a better year than Marleau, finishing ahead of him in points while playing 18 less games and having two minutes less ice time per game,
  • is much more valuable to Toronto than Marleau is to San Jose,
  • has a cap hit of 4.2 versus Marleau's cap hit of 6.9,
  • had the same number of playoff points as Marleau ,
  • made the All-Star team.

Lupul and Kessel have carried Toronto's offence this season on their backs since Kulemin had a horrible year (7 goals), and offseason acquisitions Connolly (36 points) and Lombardi (18 points) amounted to practically nothing. Marleau saw the additional offence Couture and Pavelski were bringing, and took a step back.

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04-30-2012, 03:33 PM
  #67
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Marleau is a bad fit for the Leafs, let's just leave it at that. He's a quality player though.

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04-30-2012, 03:38 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Avec Fromage View Post
Marleau is regressing, the stats don't lie. Lupul had major injuries the last two years, so you're going to judge him off of that?

Lupul...
  • had a better year than Marleau, finishing ahead of him in points while playing 18 less games and having two minutes less ice time per game,
  • is much more valuable to Toronto than Marleau is to San Jose,
  • has a cap hit of 4.2 versus Marleau's cap hit of 6.9,
  • had the same number of playoff points as Marleau ,
  • made the All-Star team.

Lupul and Kessel have carried Toronto's offence this season on their backs since Kulemin had a horrible year (7 goals), and offseason acquisitions Connolly (36 points) and Lombardi (18 points) amounted to practically nothing. Marleau saw the additional offence Couture and Pavelski were bringing, and took a step back.
You can't be valuable sitting in the press box. I just find it amusing that you find a 30 goal scorer to be regressing when there's more to his game than just scoring goals especially when compared to a player that doesn't provide much in way of defensive help.

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04-30-2012, 03:51 PM
  #69
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LMFAO, how many players have scored more goals than Marleau in the last 3 years? A whole 3 guys!

Last 3 Seasons- Steven Stamkos, 154. Alex Ovechkin, 118. Corey Perry, 113. Patrick Marleau 109.

I guess that quality is too good for Toronto in that case.
And without Thornton how far would that number had dropped.109-
Someone said it would take Gardiner ,Leafs 1st etc.
Not a chance that Marleau gets Gardiner or the Leafs 1st.
Thats a pipe dream.
Not to many teams want to pay 7 mil for a declining 32 yr old player.

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04-30-2012, 04:03 PM
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And without Thornton how far would that number had dropped.109-
Someone said it would take Gardiner ,Leafs 1st etc.
Not a chance that Marleau gets Gardiner or the Leafs 1st.
Thats a pipe dream.
Not to many teams want to pay 7 mil for a declining 32 yr old player.
And you know who the people are that don't watch the player. Anybody that calls Marleau declining is merely looking at the point totals. Thornton hasn't meant nearly as much to Marleau as people might want you to believe.

As for his value, who the hell knows? He's got an NMC which limits the teams and sinks value. The Sharks certainly won't get any better by trading him and the Leafs have bigger issues than acquiring a player of Marleau's type. They need more play-makers.

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04-30-2012, 04:09 PM
  #71
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Marleau = Jokinen? Oh jeez...

I do think he is on the decline, but he's getting old, that's excusable. But as before, he just isn't what we need...

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04-30-2012, 04:44 PM
  #72
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Look. Marleau is fast and a goal scorer. Scored 30 Goals again. I'd say that's pretty consistent. Is he on the decline? Possibly. Will he rebound? again, possibly. thing is, the man can play a very good defensive game and has enough offense to chip in 30+ goals for the past 4 seasons. I'd say he's very valuable. He is not at all "garbage." If he was, most GMs would be dumpster diving for such "garbage."

As for the OP
I won't do it.

Doesn't help Sharks since we need his speed and his offense.
Doesn't help Leafs because they need a 1C that is a playmaker.

Not to mention, what can you give us?
(Actually don't. I'm guessing Kadri++)

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04-30-2012, 05:36 PM
  #73
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Why not? Because it's moronic. For one thing, how good a player was seven years ago has nothing to do with how good they are today. If the Leafs were to trade for Marleau, they would be trading for current-Marleau - just like how when they traded for Lupul, he was a cap dump. On another note, you're going to compare a ~22 year-old sophmore Lupul to a 28-year-old Marleau? It makes no sense.

Going by age comparison, Marleau broke out when he was 28 (2005-06), he had 86 points - his previous high was 57. This year, Lupul is 28, he was on pace for 83 points - his previous high was 53.
I'll agree that Lupul and Marleau are very comparable offensively but in other facets of the game Marleau is significantly better. Marleau is equally good playing the wing or centre, Lupul doesn't play centre, Marleau has a FO% of over 50%, Lupul's is well below 40%, Marleau has been a very good penalty killer over the years and averaged 1:30 of PK time this season, Lupul doesn't play on the PK, Marleau's defensive game is very solid, Lupul is a defensive disaster. Lupul has had troubles with injuries and has missed significant time in 4 of his 8 NHL seasons, Marleau has been very durable.

At this point in their careers the biggest difference in these 2 players is cap hit and defensive game but if Lupul continues performing his hit will rise, but I can't see him becoming a solid PKer.

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04-30-2012, 07:33 PM
  #74
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I hope the leafs do get marleau so it will end the playoff drought and start a new one of leaf fans watching this guy do nothing in the playoffs. Trade for guys that a part of a winning atmosphere at some point in their career.

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04-30-2012, 08:15 PM
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I'll agree that Lupul and Marleau are very comparable offensively but in other facets of the game Marleau is significantly better. Marleau is equally good playing the wing or centre, Lupul doesn't play centre, Marleau has a FO% of over 50%, Lupul's is well below 40%, Marleau has been a very good penalty killer over the years and averaged 1:30 of PK time this season, Lupul doesn't play on the PK, Marleau's defensive game is very solid, Lupul is a defensive disaster. Lupul has had troubles with injuries and has missed significant time in 4 of his 8 NHL seasons, Marleau has been very durable.
But...But... Lupul hits a little more and is more valuable to his team than Marleau.

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