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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

How far are you willing to see the owners push their agenda?

View Poll Results: How long are you willing to see the lockout last til the owners get their way?
3 seasons or more. 56 25.11%
2 full seasons. 17 7.62%
Extend the lockout halfway into next season if necessary. 36 16.14%
Just this season. 40 17.94%
The lockout should be over soon, the players' offer is reasonably close to what's needed. 48 21.52%
The lockout should end now, the players' offer is very generous. 17 7.62%
Until 3 months ago - the old cba was fine regardless of small market woes and owners losing money. 7 3.14%
Until 3 months ago - the owners are liars and have been making money all this time. 2 0.90%
Voters: 223. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-11-2004, 02:58 PM
  #1
Oi'll say!
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How far are you willing to see the owners push their agenda?

I don't want to get into the technicalities of Luxury cap vs salary cap vs linkage but I was wondering what side people are on, if any.

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Old
12-11-2004, 03:07 PM
  #2
Isles72
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I was mentally prepared to lose a 1/2 season , however , I think it will take losing the entire season to get their point across that they want ''cost certainty'' .

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Old
12-11-2004, 03:08 PM
  #3
Steve L*
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I would have voted for "until impasse" is declared but instead went for 3 seasons or more.

It has to be fixed or the NHL is done.

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12-11-2004, 03:09 PM
  #4
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A deal should be done within the next few weeks. The NHLPA offer isn't perferct, but it certainly provides a major framework that a deal can be created upon.

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12-11-2004, 03:11 PM
  #5
Kid Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
A deal should be done within the next few weeks. The NHLPA offer isn't perferct, but it certainly provides a major framework that a deal can be created upon.
To add to that, I believe that both sides realize (even though they won't say it) that losing a full season will kill about 3-6 markets. The NHLPA doesn't want that for obvious reasons, and the NHL doesn't want that because they want a 30 team league to work out quite badly; which I don't agree with.

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12-11-2004, 03:14 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isles72
I was mentally prepared to lose a 1/2 season , however , I think it will take losing the entire season to get their point across that they want ''cost certainty'' .
I only held faint hope for a half season of hockey but the two sides have come further than I expected. I'm still expecting to lose this season though, 60/40.

It will be interesting to see if there's a big difference between how long the small market fans and big market fans are willing to see the lockout last. It's a public poll so we can see who voted for each option

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Old
12-11-2004, 06:13 PM
  #7
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however long it takes to get a hard 40 mil salary cap with good revenue sharing, with the 4 year entry level contract, $850,000 max. base salary & $850,000 max. in bonuses that the PA is offering.

i voted for 3+ seasons.

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Old
12-11-2004, 06:20 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujo_31
however long it takes to get a hard 40 mil salary cap with good revenue sharing, with the 4 year entry level contract, $850,000 max. base salary & $850,000 max. in bonuses that the PA is offering.

i voted for 3+ seasons.
The NHL is very much against significant revenue sharing. The NHLPA is much more for revenue sharing than the NHL owners are.

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Old
12-11-2004, 06:22 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve L
I would have voted for "until impasse" is declared but instead went for 3 seasons or more.

It has to be fixed or the NHL is done.
If it takes a 2nd year the NHL will already be done. It's already on the brink in the US.

The big news of the NHLPA proposal was on page 10 of the USAToday sports section, and was barely mentioned on major all-sports radio stations in New York and Philadelphia.

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Old
12-11-2004, 07:00 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
If it takes a 2nd year the NHL will already be done. It's already on the brink in the US.

The big news of the NHLPA proposal was on page 10 of the USAToday sports section, and was barely mentioned on major all-sports radio stations in New York and Philadelphia.
If there was no lockout half of the teams would have been done anyways. And there's no point in just doing a half job this time around, the nhl can't become known as the league that shuts down evey ten years.

Is nhl hockey ever mentioned on major US sports talk shows? I know Rome never talks about it.

The nhl can come back in two years, it's not like fans will forget the sport exists. If there's linkage between revenues and salaries the owners will be making money too and that's kind of important. The players have made enough of it.

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12-11-2004, 07:04 PM
  #11
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Whoever voted 3+ seasons...YOUR NOT A TRUE FAN OF THE GAME! How could you say..yea i dont mind watching hockey for 3 years as long as I get my cap. Wow!

Flame me, I dont care but your not a true fan. The most I could understand a fan to say would be a year and half but 3 years!? Im shocked.

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12-11-2004, 07:18 PM
  #12
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As long as it takes to get it right, or my team will be gone.

But then...

I believe that the players are being short-sighted in refusing to link their salaries to revenues.
I think that the players should be partners with the owners; and share in the responsibility of improving the game, expanding the fan base and growing revenues.
there's potential to make much more money for everyone

If they ever smarten up and realize that working together accomplishes more than working against each other...
... I can see 32 sustainable franchises in the not-too-distant future.
then maybe a 'wildcard' playoff round'
top 4 in each conference have home ice and the by
5 thru 12 play best-of-3 for the right to be the road team in the 1st round
only 8 of the 32 teams would have hopeless fans at the end of the regular season
A little hope goes a long way...
into the wallet


But then...

I'm just a fan, so, what do I know?

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12-11-2004, 07:19 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine4LIFE
Whoever voted 3+ seasons...YOUR NOT A TRUE FAN OF THE GAME! How could you say..yea i dont mind watching hockey for 3 years as long as I get my cap. Wow!

Flame me, I dont care but your not a true fan. The most I could understand a fan to say would be a year and half but 3 years!? Im shocked.
I agree, that's insane.

There are some very irrational people here. People seem to have become co committed to one side or they other that they would sacrifice their own enjoyment to see the side they have chosen win.

3-years are you kidding me?

That would destroy this league.

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12-11-2004, 07:22 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine4LIFE
Whoever voted 3+ seasons...YOUR NOT A TRUE FAN OF THE GAME! How could you say..yea i dont mind watching hockey for 3 years as long as I get my cap. Wow!

Flame me, I dont care but your not a true fan. The most I could understand a fan to say would be a year and half but 3 years!? Im shocked.
I'm a big fan of the game. I'm also not a child. I can wait when I 'm reasonably certain that the end results will be worth waiting for. I'm shocked that some people on here are so fixated on seeing games that they put blinders on and pretend there are not some major problems that can, and possibly will, result in teams folding. Or just as bad, want to maintain the status quo where some teams can constantly bring in new players through trades because many other teams can't bring in enough revenue to keep up with the highly inflated salaries. I'm even more shocked that people can call themselves fans yet not care if teams fold (maybe they are not NHL cities... what BS!)

I'm willing to wait as long as it takes to resolve the problems. I doubt it will take more than two years, but as long as it takes was not an option given...

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12-11-2004, 07:29 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djhn579
I'm a big fan of the game. I'm also not a child. I can wait when I 'm reasonably certain that the end results will be worth waiting for. I'm shocked that some people on here are so fixated on seeing games that they put blinders on and pretend there are not some major problems that can, and possibly will, result in teams folding. Or just as bad, want to maintain the status quo where some teams can constantly bring in new players through trades because many other teams can't bring in enough revenue to keep up with the highly inflated salaries. I'm even more shocked that people can call themselves fans yet not care if teams fold (maybe they are not NHL cities... what BS!)

I'm willing to wait as long as it takes to resolve the problems. I doubt it will take more than two years, but as long as it takes was not an option given...

You think that all teams can survive without any revenue for 3-years?

These teams have, staff to pay, lease obligations to fufill, debts to service, and other business that are conected to their NHL franchises. There is a heafty cost asociated with not playing.

And what exactly will the revenues even look like after the fan base has been so badly damaged by a 3-year lay off.

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12-11-2004, 07:30 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine4LIFE
Whoever voted 3+ seasons...YOUR NOT A TRUE FAN OF THE GAME! How could you say..yea i dont mind watching hockey for 3 years as long as I get my cap. Wow!

Flame me, I dont care but your not a true fan. The most I could understand a fan to say would be a year and half but 3 years!? Im shocked.
Excuse me???
I was a fan, long before you were a twinkle in your daddy's eye.
I just happen to understand that sometimes you have to tolerate some pain, in order to get the right gain.
And, I remember how the last "quick-fix" worked.
My favourite game needs to be fixed.
No matter how long it takes.
And I will be back at the rink, whenever that happens.

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12-11-2004, 08:00 PM
  #17
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Please, your just so upsest with have a EVEN playing field that your willing to give up hockey for as long as it takes to get it..talk about greed. Heres a note...at least half the teams would be gone after 3 years...including your OILERS that cant hold on to a player and then blames the system.

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12-11-2004, 08:04 PM
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Yup. I've been watching the game 50 years, waiting 3 is nothing.

I must admit I'm surprised at the poll so far. 60+% voting for 1.5 years to 3 years.

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12-11-2004, 08:15 PM
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in all honesty.... who frickin CARES if the league survives in the states?? certainly not anybody that i know, and i live in hockey-crazy western canada.... once this gets fixed the canadian fans will be waiting and frothing at the mouth for NHL to come back.... if it doesnt get fixed, then the only NHL team that will left in canada will be the leafs.....then the rest of canada will turn its attention to a different hockey league, and the NHL knows it cant let that happen, because without canada, there is no NHL.....simple as that

so yes, im willing to wait as long as it takes for this to get fixed.... even if it takes 5+ years, because i have lots of other entertaining hockey to get me by in the meantime with our junior leagues

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12-11-2004, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jadeddog
in all honesty.... who frickin CARES if the league survives in the states?? certainly not anybody that i know, and i live in hockey-crazy western canada.... once this gets fixed the canadian fans will be waiting and frothing at the mouth for NHL to come back.... if it doesnt get fixed, then the only NHL team that will left in canada will be the leafs.....then the rest of canada will turn its attention to a different hockey league, and the NHL knows it cant let that happen, because without canada, there is no NHL.....simple as that

Without US $$$$$$$ the NHL is toast. End of story.

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12-11-2004, 08:20 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine4LIFE
Whoever voted 3+ seasons...YOUR NOT A TRUE FAN OF THE GAME! How could you say..yea i dont mind watching hockey for 3 years as long as I get my cap. Wow!

Flame me, I dont care but your not a true fan. The most I could understand a fan to say would be a year and half but 3 years!? Im shocked.
Theres no need to flame you. Your rhetoric flames itself. What you and other pro-PA cant seem to wrap your heads around is that you cannot seperate the game from the economics. Sure, I want to see the game. I want to have hockey back. But the economics are messed up beyond words. So much so that if they continue, the game I want to see will end: you see, FlyLine, the NHL is a business. It uses hockey to produce revenue. It remains in existance because, up to this point, there has been a positive revenue stream and a profit. But now, because of bad management from the league, overspending by the owners, overpayment of the players, and a massive decay of the quality of the game, that profit is drying up and if the status quo remains, will disappear. With it will go the owners, the people who pay the players and the teams we the fans cheer for. It happened to the USFL, it happened to the WHA, it happened to many other league because of mismanagement and out of control spending.

It also doesnt matter who brought us here. Guess what: the owners did. They caused this whole mess. The PA also helped it along. All sides are guilty; much more so the owners. So, with that in mind: WHO CARES. Were here now and, guess what, the same people who brought us here just noticed that their massive lack of control is bad for business... thus, for their own gain, they want to fix it. The good news is that out of their greed is our gain... they dont want to liquidate the league and cut their losses, they want the league to grow and succeed so they can make money... and us, the fans, get the benefit of a healthy econominc system that guarentees a long livelihood of the game we love...

But ONLY if it makes sense for the business to continue.

If it doesnt, then the league is dead. DEAD. Theres no ifs ands or buts. IT WILL DIE, FLYLINE. If you dont get any other point made on this board, get that one: IT WILL DIE.

No More Stanley Cup.
No More Rangers.
No More Nothing.

So, understand that while your short-term desire to see hockey is applaudable, you are missing the point that all of us who are willing to wait 5 or 10 years to see hockey again are on about:

We are willing to miss out on hockey for 2, 3 or 5 years so that our children can see NHL hockey 20, 30 or 50 years down the road. And if you are a real fan, as you claim, you should put aside your hatred for Bettman, take off your blinders and recognize that, while he is the one that helped bring us to this point, he is ALSO the only one who is championing to save this league... for you, for me, for our kids and grandkids.

Bettman is not the enemy this time: The status quo is.

It must change or else you and me will be debating economics on the NBA boards...

cause there wont BE an NHL.

I hope you'll consider this.

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12-11-2004, 08:23 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine4LIFE
Whoever voted 3+ seasons...YOUR NOT A TRUE FAN OF THE GAME! How could you say..yea i dont mind watching hockey for 3 years as long as I get my cap. Wow!

Flame me, I dont care but your not a true fan. The most I could understand a fan to say would be a year and half but 3 years!? Im shocked.
Don't tell me what kind of fan I am...

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Old
12-11-2004, 08:26 PM
  #23
djhn579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Potatoe
You think that all teams can survive without any revenue for 3-years?

These teams have, staff to pay, lease obligations to fufill, debts to service, and other business that are conected to their NHL franchises. There is a heafty cost asociated with not playing.

And what exactly will the revenues even look like after the fan base has been so badly damaged by a 3-year lay off.
That was not the question. I answered about how long I was willing to wait.

Is it possible that some teams will fold if there is not hockey for 3 years? Of course. But so far as I know, no team has dipped into their $10M contingency fund yet (not that the will tell us anyway...), and most teams are owned by people with enough other business deals going that they can hold out a lot longer than the players can.

Think about it. There are teams that intentionally overspent to build and keep a winner. Those teams are okay for quite a while. There are many teams that have been in debt for many years already. I'm sure they can hold out a few more years, especially when they know that a much better system will be put in place, a system that will allow them to compete on a more financially even playing field.

I don't think it will take more than two years though, but we will see...

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12-11-2004, 08:26 PM
  #24
IceDragoon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine4LIFE
Please, your just so upsest with have a EVEN playing field that your willing to give up hockey for as long as it takes to get it..talk about greed. Heres a note...at least half the teams would be gone after 3 years...including your OILERS that cant hold on to a player and then blames the system.
Who are you to say you know what my emotions and motivations are?

Oh wait...
You can tell the future, so you must be able to read my mind and, therefore, know my motivations.
Now you're telling me that the reason my team had to let some marque players go, was because they are inept, or, at the very least, didn't feel like paying "fair market value".
And, it had nothing to do with the fact that most hockey players are grossly overpaid because their value is tied to other grossly overpaid hockey players.
Thank you for enlightening me.[/sarcasm]

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12-11-2004, 08:30 PM
  #25
FLYLine24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no13matssundin
But the economics are messed up beyond words.
See there NOT. They are bad yes, but your SO PRO-OWNER anything...and i mean ANYTHING that Bettman saids you buy. Its pointless debating with people like you. You think the only way the NHL will live is with a CAP..well when the sides do agree without a CAP..you will look like the idiot who followed and went by every word Bettman has said.

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