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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

i am prepared to change sides ...

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12-11-2004, 03:59 PM
  #1
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i am prepared to change sides ...

look, if the owners want to cancel the season because they WANT a cap, then say that. but stop saying they NEED a cap, the fact is they WANT a cap.

i tell you what, i will change my stance to PRO NHL if Bettman were to say the following:

"the NHL owners WANT a hard salary cap because it is how we want to run this league and no matter how many good and valid and well thought out discussion the NHLPA proposes, the PA's and their members thoughts on the issue are of little importance to us.

there has and never will be a better time in the history of our sport to excersize our power on this issue. the market in the USA is almost non existent so we have as little to lose now as we ever will. the fans in canada dont care if we put monkeys on the ice in skirts, they will watch anything with an NHL jersey on it. they have said so in droves on radio shows, internet chat boards and public forums.

the fact is we know we dont NEED a cap, but we dont care, we matter of factly WANT a cap and nothing, even the players playing for 100 grand a decade will not change the fact that NHL hockey will not return until we have linkage. period, end of story, and until the players proposal contains the specific concept of linkage, NHL hockey will never return with the current members of the NHLPA."

if he just said that, then hey so be it. everything else he says is just PR and rhetoric to cover up the owners WANT a cap, but dont NEED it.

dr

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12-11-2004, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DementedReality
"the NHL owners WANT a hard salary cap because it is how we want to run this league and no matter how many good and valid and well thought out discussion the NHLPA proposes, the PA's and their members thoughts on the issue are of little importance to us.
:lol

Thanks for the laugh, DR

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12-11-2004, 04:08 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoM
:lol

Thanks for the laugh, DR
you are welcome ?

are you suggesting the PA is incapable of articulating some well thought out idea's ?

the same people who according to many are so smart they have exploited, extorted and maniplulated some of the shrewdest, wealthiest and succesfull businessmen in North America ?

dr

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12-11-2004, 04:11 PM
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I'm suggesting that the NHL is just as capable of articulating some well thought out ideas as the PA is, as much as a shock as it may seem.

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12-11-2004, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoM
I'm suggesting that the NHL is just as capable of articulating some well thought out ideas as the PA is, as much as a shock as it may seem.
thanks ... thats not what this thread is about really. and by the quote you highlited, it doesnt really make your point.

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12-11-2004, 04:14 PM
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It does make my point, because your entire post gave off the impression that the owners are a group of immature snobs who will do things their way or the high way (much like the players), while giving off the impression that everything the players have done was in the best interests of the league and that they are a group of mature individuals (much like both sides aren't).

The section I quoted merely highlighted the point.

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12-11-2004, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoM
It does make my point, because your entire post gave off the impression that the owners are a group of immature snobs who will do things their way or the high way (much like the players), while giving off the impression that everything the players have done was in the best interests of the league and that they are a group of mature individuals (much like both sides aren't).

The section I quoted merely highlighted the point.
well, i humbly (as the author) suggest you misread it. can you accept that and not sidetrack the thread ?

dr

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12-11-2004, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DementedReality

the same people who according to many are so smart they have exploited, extorted and maniplulated some of the shrewdest, wealthiest and succesfull businessmen in North America ?

dr
I've never seen this argument made anywhere --- not here at HF, in the media, by the owners,...

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12-11-2004, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacketracket
I've never seen this argument made anywhere --- not here at HF, in the media, by the owners,...
really ?

well, here is one example from thsi forum ... 2nd post, 2nd page

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=117804&page=2

and here is another one, ironically just posted as i was typing this one

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.p...53#post2216253

dr


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12-11-2004, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DementedReality
really ?

well, here is one example from thsi forum ... 2nd post, 2nd page

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=117804&page=2

dr
I'm not really sure what you're talking about, but I sure do like Kerrly's avatar.

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12-11-2004, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DementedReality
really ?

well, here is one example from thsi forum ... 2nd post, 2nd page

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=117804&page=2

and here is another one, ironically just posted as i was typing this one

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.p...53#post2216253

dr
You'll have to be a bit more specific, because I didn't see your implication in either of the posts you linked. Granted, I didn't read every post in the 6-pager.

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12-11-2004, 05:21 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacketracket
You'll have to be a bit more specific, because I didn't see your implication in either of the posts you linked. Granted, I didn't read every post in the 6-pager.
well, its in both those threads. read it or not, believe it or not. its not really the point of my statement.

never mind i guess. i am prepared to support and defend the owners once i hear this claim or something similar.

dr

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12-11-2004, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DementedReality
well, its in both those threads. read it or not, believe it or not. its not really the point of my statement.


dr
Fine by me. I found the statement to be a bit over the top, anyway.

I haven't seen "many" people expressing the sentiment that the owners need protected from the NHLPA. What I have seen mentioned --- time and time again --- is that the owners themselves cannot be relied on, as a whole, to spend in a manner that ensures a healthy league.

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12-11-2004, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacketracket
Fine by me. I found the statement to be a bit over the top, anyway.

I haven't seen "many" people expressing the sentiment that the owners need protected from the NHLPA. What I have seen mentioned --- time and time again --- is that the owners themselves cannot be relied on, as a whole, to spend in a manner that ensures a healthy league.
yes, that is a claim and its true. how foolish we should support the owners even more. they need protection from themselves ? what, are the children ?

dr

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12-11-2004, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DementedReality
yes, that is a claim and its true. how foolish we should support the owners even more. they need protection from themselves ? what, are the children ?

dr
How does what I posted translate into "we should support the owners even more"?

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12-11-2004, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacketracket
How does what I posted translate into "we should support the owners even more"?
it doesnt, but it seems to be the overwhelming consensus. no offense intended. this still is way off what the point of my statement was getting at.

too bad, i thought, since i have been involved in some very lengthy discussions, that it would be a breakthrough if i were to change sides.

my mistake.

dr

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12-11-2004, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DementedReality
it doesnt, but it seems to be the overwhelming consensus. no offense intended. this still is way off what the point of my statement was getting at.

too bad, i thought, since i have been involved in some very lengthy discussions, that it would be a breakthrough if i were to change sides.

my mistake.

dr
Good drama --- nice job.

I couldn't care less whether you "switched sides" or not. There is a third side to this argument that you've completely ignored.

The fans.

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12-11-2004, 06:04 PM
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I'll never switch sides because the only side I'm on is my own. I could care less about the players or the owners. They don't care about me. For all I care the players can make $20K, or the owners can turn over all their hidden revenues to the players and operate like a player charity. From where I'm sitting, picking sides doesn't compute. I don't understand these passionate arguments on behalf of either side from people whose existance isn't acknowledged by either side. It isn't as if they're migrant farm workers and there's a crusade for humane conditions. I just want to see NHL hockey at an affordable price, and have a stable league.

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12-11-2004, 06:13 PM
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I just want to see NHL hockey at an affordable price, and have a stable league.
Then you support the owners and hope they go all out to crush the PA.

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12-11-2004, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffaloed
I'll never switch sides because the only side I'm on is my own. I could care less about the players or the owners. They don't care about me. For all I care the players can make $20K, or the owners can turn over all their hidden revenues to the players and operate like a player charity. From where I'm sitting, picking sides doesn't compute. I don't understand these passionate arguments on behalf of either side from people whose existance isn't acknowledged by either side. It isn't as if they're migrant farm workers and there's a crusade for humane conditions. I just want to see NHL hockey at an affordable price, and have a stable league.
fair enough and in principle i agree. however, what it will take to get the owners side of things is ugly. so hence i dont support it. secondly, do you believe ticket prices will come down long term ?

dr

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12-11-2004, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
Then you support the owners and hope they go all out to crush the PA.
Nope, if ALL revenues are pooled and shared equally, the players win the CBA, and we have a stable, fan-affordable NHL.

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12-11-2004, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DementedReality
secondly, do you believe ticket prices will come down long term ?

dr
I think they'll be a downward (12-15%) adjustment of ticket prices mainly for PR purposes, and then they'll rise again with inflation. It isn't in the interest of the owners or players to charge much less for tickets than the market will bear. What I hope is that with a new CBA markets won't be forced to go up against that limit to meet costs.

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12-11-2004, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffaloed
Nope, if ALL revenues are pooled and shared equally, the players win the CBA, and we have a stable, fan-affordable NHL.
The ONLY way tickets come down is if the league shuts down while the owners crush the union and the league re-starts with low labour costs and a need to win back fans.

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12-11-2004, 07:32 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffaloed
I'll never switch sides because the only side I'm on is my own. I could care less about the players or the owners. They don't care about me. For all I care the players can make $20K, or the owners can turn over all their hidden revenues to the players and operate like a player charity. From where I'm sitting, picking sides doesn't compute. I don't understand these passionate arguments on behalf of either side from people whose existance isn't acknowledged by either side. It isn't as if they're migrant farm workers and there's a crusade for humane conditions. I just want to see NHL hockey at an affordable price, and have a stable league.
Exactly what I was trying to say, only expressed much more coherently.

And it took all of one post before the either/or guys placed you in the owner's camp.

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12-11-2004, 07:50 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacketracket
And it took all of one post before the either/or guys placed you in the owner's camp.
Yeah, because he couldn't possibly not care which side wins?

It's amazing, but there people like us who just would like to see hockey back.

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