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ECSF Game 2: Caps at Rangers 730 PM at MSG

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05-01-2012, 02:19 AM
  #876
troyerlaw
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I never saw Aucoin tonight. He's been ok (not awful, not good) when I've seen him. I think he has some O to give yet.
He had the beautiful secondary assist on the tic-tac-toe first goal tonite. Ward to coin back to ward, then across to noobs.

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05-01-2012, 02:54 AM
  #877
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i have way less of a problem with ovi's minutes (who earns them one shift and deserves to lose them after the next) than aucoin, wideman and schultz. the outrage should be over how badly these guys are playing and STILL keeping a jersey.

the caps continue to win in complete and utter spite of these guys and hunters decisions.

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05-01-2012, 03:14 AM
  #878
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Originally Posted by troyerlaw View Post
He had the beautiful secondary assist on the tic-tac-toe first goal tonite. Ward to coin back to ward, then across to noobs.

Awesome. Maybe that will give him some confidence to create more goals.

I am confident that we will score enough goals against Lundy. My concern is our D keeping the Rags shooting from the perimeter.

NYC market. The NHL will "guide" this to 7 games.

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05-01-2012, 04:05 AM
  #879
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Well, long term, I think Ovi justifies his salary only if he fully buys in and becomes an all around player. With the young guns, there's no going back to a high-flying offense. If the Caps decide that it's not possible to mold him into a true all-around player, they should move him. The return may not be exactly what they want, but it should still be huge and it'd open up a ton of cap space to pursue whoever. Plus you eliminate the risk of him dropping off physically later in his career -- and if he doesn't have the IQ to compensate and be a complete player, that's not a pretty prospect. Whatever the fallout, it's better than potentially running the team into the ground. And if it's better for the team, fans will come around. Recently I've been seeing a fair number of comments from fans that became hockey fans because of Ovi, but now see him for what he is -- great but flawed.

I'm sure everybody in Caps nation is pulling for Ovi to really finally fully "get it". But he may not, and then if the brass doesn't pull the trigger, it will be trouble, or at least extremely hard to win.

This recent ice time "controversy" is 99% media-created, no big surprise there, but at the root of it is the fact that the franchise player is no longer used like the franchise player. And I think that has resulted in what's going to be an endless media-propelled ****-storm that will probably not die until that changes, one way or another. Even if Hunter is gone, if the next coach comes in, gives Ovi more time and the team doesn't do as well, that ****-storm will just start up again. So as much as Wise is a d-bag for writing a column to stir up crap, he's right that long term, this is probably not sustainable. Ovi's gonna have to become a complete player that can be used in all situations with benefit to the team, or the media will continue to stir things up until they run him out of town.

Ugh, they blew it with Ovi from the start -- Hanlon, Boudreau -- very little accountability from superstars. Hard to teach an old(er) dog new tricks..

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05-01-2012, 04:14 AM
  #880
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just saw the highlights... the first goal makes me 4line in ya face ^^

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05-01-2012, 06:04 AM
  #881
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Caps are so much better team than Rags not even funny . The caps defense is so much better and holtby will continue to outplay that lucky over rated Queen Henrietta .
Torts ia a bum compared to Hunter who outcoached him both games . Caps should be up 2-0 in this series . This one only going 5 boys .

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05-01-2012, 06:21 AM
  #882
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Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
Caps are so much better team than Rags not even funny . The caps defense is so much better and holtby will continue to outplay that lucky over rated Queen Henrietta .
Torts ia a bum compared to Hunter who outcoached him both games . Caps should be up 2-0 in this series . This one only going 5 boys .
This reminds me of Bill Maher's weekly segment called "Dispatches from the Bubble". Congrats, you're one of about three hockey fans that considers Lundquist overrated.

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05-01-2012, 07:00 AM
  #883
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toi just an issue created by the media. nope. basic question. how many teams have a franchise player? of those teams how many of them leave that franchise player on the bench for the final 5 minutes of a game while protecting a lead?

when all of fame hitters start getting platooned or pinch hit for, its news. its often big news.

i have been on the trade ovechkin side of the argument at times this season. if the caps are going to play like this going forward, i'd support trading him again. i am not calling for him to be traded either at this point.

what i am saying is that those here that are saying this is not a big deal aren't seeing it.

seems to me that the ground has been layed. either ov gets that he needs to change or his time in washington is limited. either he improves his all around game or his ice gets cut. if his ice is cut for the long term, he will want out. either he wants to stay enough to mold his game to his boss's needs or he takes....he talents...elsewhere.

again...somewhere matt bradley is smiling.

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05-01-2012, 07:14 AM
  #884
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You're misguided.

It's not a big deal. It's only a big deal if he's going to pout and get his way. It's something that should have been done from day 1. Until he learned to be a complete player, he should have been forced to pay the price. Too often he blows the zone, flamingos or loafs back. I realize he has offensive output that usually justified it, but now that the offense is dried up he needs to put in the work.

If he can't do it, then he needs to be someone else's problem.

I for one think it's good that a person came in and stood up to him.

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05-01-2012, 07:26 AM
  #885
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05-01-2012, 07:28 AM
  #886
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I has suspected that the Rags fans may have gotten inside Holtby's head in game 1. Someone said he was gazing at fans (angrily perhaps) during breaks. Yet last night, they didn't heckle him once.

Hendricks has been having a great playoffs after being MIA (and I think injured) last year. He is exactly that playoff type, hits dirty work, enough hands to pot a few.

Ward said it last night, that teams choose to fixate on Ovi and the 4th liners just sneak in behind. He and Knuble are well rested. Many scratched their heads over Knuble scratched but he sure as hell had some fresh legs last night.

Love the OVI TOI drama. Even the 106.7 local blind squirrels are trying to talk about it. One actually said he thinks Dale is doing it because he doesn't trust Ovi defensively.

But it may be more than that, Ovi's time is fluctuating quite a bit - maintaining a respectable avg TOI. Dale may be seeing others giving more efforts at times and riding them. Look at our LW's - Chimera Hendricks Knuble.... can anyone complain about any of those 3?

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05-01-2012, 07:33 AM
  #887
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Am I the only one who has a bigger issue with Backstrom getting 16 mins than Ovi getting whatever he got? I mean "defense" isn't an excuse for benching Backstrom the way it is for Ovi, and neither are faceoffs for the most part.

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05-01-2012, 07:34 AM
  #888
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I do not think Dale is intending on permanently cutting down 8's icetime. As Alex becomes a more complete player ala Stevie Y, his icetime will go up.

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05-01-2012, 07:41 AM
  #889
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Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
Am I the only one who has a bigger issue with Backstrom getting 16 mins than Ovi getting whatever he got? I mean "defense" isn't an excuse for benching Backstrom the way it is for Ovi, and neither are faceoffs for the most part.
Backstrom has had his share of boneheaded giveaways this spring.

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05-01-2012, 07:47 AM
  #890
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Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
Am I the only one who has a bigger issue with Backstrom getting 16 mins than Ovi getting whatever he got? I mean "defense" isn't an excuse for benching Backstrom the way it is for Ovi, and neither are faceoffs for the most part.
Fair point, but Nick is averaging 20:47 (at home 22:16) so like Ovi, is riding the TOI yoyo. Dale may just be throwing off Torts, knowing he is the center to shut down. The Beagle love is strong and is in play here. Someone chart his TOI, i bet it looks like APPL stock. Averaging 16:58TOI, Torts has to include him in the game plan

Winning on the road is often ugly.

Aucoin is one lucky guy, to be pulled by two big canadian moose to the tune of 10 TOI - eats a bit into Nick I suspect. Coin is fine in space with the puck. Odd man breaks, he dominates. That's his game.

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05-01-2012, 07:50 AM
  #891
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I still believe the Caps are winning in spite of DH. I get limiting Ovie's minutes late in the game, but only 3:33 in the first period that included a full 2 minute PP? The guy has the second highest playoff PPG rate in the league and he barely gets 2 minutes of ES ice time in the first period?

I know, I know, the team is winning. They're essentially playing without any room for error though. One off night for the goalie or one strong game for the opposing goalie or a bad bounce or a couple posts and they're pretty much borked. They were a Bergeron whiff away from golfing right now. If you're playing that close to the edge, you're bound to fall off at some point.

The whole situation reminds me of a kid in grade school who makes 2 mistakes when doing a math problem and still somehow come up with the right answer. Sure, he got the right answer, but is that success repeatable over the long-term? Can the Caps count on the 3rd and 4th lines to continue scoring timely goals? Can they count on Holtby to not have repeat performances of Game 1? If the Caps get down by a couple goals, do they have what it takes to break through against a team that goes into its own turtle mode?

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05-01-2012, 07:57 AM
  #892
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Originally Posted by Chimaera View Post
You're misguided.

It's not a big deal. It's only a big deal if he's going to pout and get his way. It's something that should have been done from day 1. Until he learned to be a complete player, he should have been forced to pay the price. Too often he blows the zone, flamingos or loafs back. I realize he has offensive output that usually justified it, but now that the offense is dried up he needs to put in the work.

If he can't do it, then he needs to be someone else's problem.

I for one think it's good that a person came in and stood up to him.
on this hand: its not a big deal.
on the other hand: if he can't do it, then he needs to be someone else's problem.

in what universe is either he changes or goes someplace else not a big deal?

after its not a big deal i dont disagree with anything else in your post. but thats a big deal.

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05-01-2012, 08:06 AM
  #893
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Even if he did dive, that's part of the game now unfortunately. Even the most stand up NHL'ers do it in todays game. I think cally plays the game with respect but he looked like he got shot with a bazooka when semin tapped his leg. Caps took advantage of key mistakes.
Like I said in the main board this is like a chess match I'm loving this series.
Richards was called for holding on Carlson. If it wasn't a hold it was interference. Either way I just don't understand how people can suggest a player "dived" on such a call.

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05-01-2012, 08:06 AM
  #894
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Love the OVI TOI drama. Even the 106.7 local blind squirrels are trying to talk about it. One actually said he thinks Dale is doing it because he doesn't trust Ovi defensively.

But it may be more than that, Ovi's time is fluctuating quite a bit - maintaining a respectable avg TOI. Dale may be seeing others giving more efforts at times and riding them. Look at our LW's - Chimera Hendricks Knuble.... can anyone complain about any of those 3?
except the actual use of ice time for 8 is pretty clear. its been posted. ov's ice at 17 minutes or less. caps win. ov's ice at 20 minutes plus. caps lose. what that shoes clearly is that if the caps are ahead, ov is not playing and it doesnt matter how early in the game it is. if the game is tied, ov is playing less. if the caps are behind ov is double shifting.

the caps scored two first period goals. last night the caps scored at 12:20 of the first and ov's ice was almost eliminated til the score was tied. he scored the go ahead goal at 12:33 of the 3rd and didnt play again.

by the way, that includes backstrom and semin. when the caps have a lead, their defensive line mates move to other lines that play while they dont anymore.

used to be the caps used 4 sets of forwards on the pk. they only use 2 sets now.


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05-01-2012, 08:06 AM
  #895
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This reminds me of Bill Maher's weekly segment called "Dispatches from the Bubble". Congrats, you're one of about three hockey fans that considers Lundquist overrated.
He's certainly not overrated...but in 2 1/4 playoff series against him, he hasn't stolen games or series against us like advertised. For all the expert predictions, the Caps have handled New York well.

Since the Rangers had a 3-1 series lead three years ago, the Caps have won 8 of 10 playoff games vs. them.

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05-01-2012, 08:12 AM
  #896
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i have way less of a problem with ovi's minutes (who earns them one shift and deserves to lose them after the next) than aucoin, wideman and schultz. the outrage should be over how badly these guys are playing and STILL keeping a jersey.

the caps continue to win in complete and utter spite of these guys and hunters decisions.
I guess you didn't see the Post-Game show on Comcast last night. Had Al Koken, Craig Laughlin and Alan May on. Koken brought up in particular the play of Jeff Schultz in last night's game and said he thought he played well. Alan May went further and said he thought it was Schultz's best game of the season and that Richards goal was not on him.

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05-01-2012, 08:14 AM
  #897
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Sarge over skated that play, IMO. Opened up the passing lane.

Instead, i thought it was by far, Wideman's best game of the playoffs.

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05-01-2012, 08:20 AM
  #898
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If we are behind most of the game, Ovi will get 20-22 mins

If we are tied most of the game, Ovi will get around 17 mins

If we lead most of the game, Ovi will get around 13-15 mins

Thats how its going to be.

Bizarre strategy, no doubt. I don't love it, I don't hate it either. Surprisingly its worked so far.

Dale Hunter - coaching genius or just lucky?

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05-01-2012, 08:23 AM
  #899
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here's the big thing. If the Caps were down, he would be on there for massive minutes.

They're not, and as such, his ice time has gone down. Shocker.

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05-01-2012, 08:28 AM
  #900
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If we are behind most of the game, Ovi will get 20-22 mins

If we are tied most of the game, Ovi will get around 17 mins

If we lead most of the game, Ovi will get around 13-15 mins

Thats how its going to be.

Bizarre strategy, no doubt. I don't love it, I don't hate it either. Surprisingly its worked so far.

Dale Hunter - coaching genius or just lucky?
Somewhere in between.

I hate the strategy because one of the more important Ovechkin playoff aspects is his ability to wear down the defense. Nobody else intimidates them like he does. We saw it with Seidenberg--he let up on the physical play as the series went on because of the pounding he took from Ovie. That physical impact is especially important against a team like the Rangers that really shortens up their defensive bench and relies heavily on a few guys.

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