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Old
04-30-2012, 07:24 PM
  #26
xX Hot Fuss
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Kipper has carried the lottery flames into mediocrity for the last 3 seasons. THAT is why his numbers are so average. Put him on a playoff team and he's a top 10 goalie

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Old
04-30-2012, 09:02 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xX Hot Fuss View Post
Kipper has carried the lottery flames into mediocrity for the last 3 seasons. THAT is why his numbers are so average. Put him on a playoff team and he's a top 10 goalie
This sums up my point

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Old
04-30-2012, 10:10 PM
  #28
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I think Kipper is still a better goalie than CC. But other things considered - salary cap hit, age, and cost to acquire him - I definitely would say no to the original proposal.

Counter:
To Cal: Crawford, Frolik, Morin, 2nd
To Chi: Kiprusoff

Frolik is salary dump to offset salary cap differential.

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Old
04-30-2012, 11:13 PM
  #29
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I'd rather take our chances with CC than get K. He's old and a UFA soon.

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Old
04-30-2012, 11:49 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EbonyRaptor View Post
I think Kipper is still a better goalie than CC. But other things considered - salary cap hit, age, and cost to acquire him - I definitely would say no to the original proposal.

Counter:
To Cal: Crawford, Frolik, Morin, 2nd
To Chi: Kiprusoff

Frolik is salary dump to offset salary cap differential.
Crawford, Olesz, Saad, 1st
Kiprusoff, Babchuk

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Old
05-01-2012, 03:24 AM
  #31
Sir Psycho T
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I do think the original proposal was way to steep, CC 2nd McNeil is fine with me.

Also please don't compare Crawford to Kipper, Crawford is an average to below average goalie, Kipper is an elite goalie.

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Old
05-01-2012, 07:04 AM
  #32
slappipappi
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
Also please don't compare Crawford to Kipper, Crawford is an average to below average goalie, Kipper is an elite goalie.
So the difference between "elite" and "below average" is .004 in save %?

Based on 30 shots per game, that's less than 1 goal every 8 games.

Kipper has had some excellent years, just not 2 in a row for quite some time.

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Old
05-01-2012, 07:04 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by needle View Post
Crawford, Olesz, Saad, 1st
Kiprusoff, Babchuk
Stop with the Saad stuff.He's not going anywhere unless there's a massive overpayment coming back.While Kipper is a big improvement over Crawford,he's not good enough or young enough to warrant giving up Saad.

Crawford,Morin,Frolik +2nd for Kipper +4th.That's still a bit much,but as someone pointed out Morin is becoming redundant and Frolik has to be included for cap reasons.

If the Flames decide to go with youth and are willing to part with Iginla,Kipper and Jbo then I think a deal can be done involving picks,prospects and a couple of roster players(again for cap reasons 1 or 2 have to come off the roster)

Maybe something along the lines of Crawford,Frolik,Bickell,Morin,Pirri,Clendenning(sp )+1st&3rd for all three of the above.That's a decent return for a couple of guys with only a couple of yrs left and a 2nd pairing dman.

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Old
05-01-2012, 10:43 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by slappipappi View Post
So the difference between "elite" and "below average" is .004 in save %?

Based on 30 shots per game, that's less than 1 goal every 8 games.

Kipper has had some excellent years, just not 2 in a row for quite some time.
IMO:

.930+: ELITE

.920-.930: Very Good, goaltending is a strength for your team

.910-.920: Average to above average, goaltending is steady but you need to have a very good team in most other areas to be one of the best teams in the league

.900-.910: Below average, goaltending is a weakness and loses games for you, need to acquire a goalie ASAP, only way for guys in this range to have a good record is luck and a hell of a lot of goal support, only somewhat acceptable if the guy is facing 40 shots or more every game or playing 70+ games for a bad team like Ward in Carolina

Below .900: Could be released any day

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Old
05-01-2012, 11:53 AM
  #35
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No thanks. I wouldn't even give a first rounder for Kipper. Hopefully, we'll draft someone in the first round that will either be in our system for years to come, or be able to trade the person we draft, or the draft pick itself, for another person that's be with us for years to come or multiple players. Making that part of a one for one trade for someone that has a few years left in him, tops, is completely out of the question as far as I'm concerned.

And no ****ing way we're giving up Saad for an older netminder either.

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Old
05-01-2012, 04:48 PM
  #36
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how can anyone question Kipper as Top10 Goalie?

We won't give up Saad for him, but if there is a chance to get him you do it

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Old
05-01-2012, 05:01 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
how can anyone question Kipper as Top10 Goalie?

We won't give up Saad for him, but if there is a chance to get him you do it
I disagree. We need a young goalie for long term. If I'm giving up CC, Saad and a 1st, I'm getting Rask

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Old
05-01-2012, 05:03 PM
  #38
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we will not give Saad + 1st + CC

not for Kipper, not for Rask.


We need a goalie that can help us now, the best available. We don't need to look at the age as long as the goalie has 2-4 years left

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Old
05-01-2012, 05:17 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
we will not give Saad + 1st + CC

not for Kipper, not for Rask.


We need a goalie that can help us now, the best available. We don't need to look at the age as long as the goalie has 2-4 years left
Understandable, but Bowman is going to want someone long term. We have no goalie prospects that will ever be a #1.

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Old
05-01-2012, 05:56 PM
  #40
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T. Vokoun less of a cap hit and he is a free agent.

Kipper still has 3-4 years left, but the deal doesn't make sense for Chicago when looking at goalie F.A. in his age range or even younger...

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Old
05-01-2012, 07:09 PM
  #41
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Vokoun is 35, Kipp is 35, Thomas is 38.

All goalies available are old, and that only fixes our goalie problem for maybe 3-4 season, then what do we do?

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Old
05-01-2012, 07:11 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
how can anyone question Kipper as Top10 Goalie?

We won't give up Saad for him, but if there is a chance to get him you do it
Luongo
Quick
Price
Rinne
Lundqvist
Ward
Fleury
=======
above 7 easily over Kipper IMO
the following are arguable
=======
Schneider
Backstrom
Rask
Howard
Miller
Hiller
Thomas


I wouldnt say it's clear that Kip is still a top 10 goalie... I think the case could be made either way though.

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Old
05-01-2012, 07:12 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zytz View Post
Luongo
Quick
Price
Rinne
Lundqvist
Ward
Fleury
=======
above 7 easily over Kipper IMO
the following are arguable
=======
Schneider
Backstrom
Rask
Howard
Miller
Hiller
Thomas


I wouldnt say it's clear that Kip is still a top 10 goalie... I think the case could be made either way though.
Take out Fleury, but add both Halak and Elliot.

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Old
05-01-2012, 08:53 PM
  #44
MTP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zytz View Post
Luongo
Quick
Price
Rinne
Lundqvist
Ward
Fleury
=======
above 7 easily over Kipper IMO
the following are arguable
=======
Schneider
Backstrom
Rask
Howard
Miller
Hiller
Thomas


I wouldnt say it's clear that Kip is still a top 10 goalie... I think the case could be made either way though.
Thomas, Hiller, Rask, Schneider and Miller are all clearly better than Kipper right now. Add Luongo to that list as well.

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Old
05-01-2012, 09:23 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBSeabs27 View Post
Vokoun is 35, Kipp is 35, Thomas is 38.

All goalies available are old, and that only fixes our goalie problem for maybe 3-4 season, then what do we do?
What do we then? We handle that problem. Then.

Until that point, we'll have good goaltending. Hopefully we'll also have some deep playoff runs, and a young prospect who gets proper development time and would be ready to challenge for the starting role.

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Old
05-01-2012, 09:51 PM
  #46
Ace Rothstein
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Kipper would be a definite upgrade over Crawford at this point but that cap hit and giving up assets besides Crawford for him would be difficult. 4-5 years ago I'd say he was a top 5 goalie but now he is a middle of the pack starting goalie. I must also add that I wasn't overly impressed with him in his last playoff stint against the Hawks in '09.

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Old
05-01-2012, 10:09 PM
  #47
slappipappi
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
how can anyone question Kipper as Top10 Goalie?
His .914 lifetime save % for a start.

His age, contract and cap hit for another.

I see Kipper play about 30 times per season. He's was good this year, but played poorly last year.

He's a sometimes very good goalie, sometimes very average.

It''s been along time since he followed up a good season with another good season.

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Old
05-02-2012, 12:57 AM
  #48
Sir Psycho T
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slappipappi View Post
His .914 lifetime save % for a start.

His age, contract and cap hit for another.

I see Kipper play about 30 times per season. He's was good this year, but played poorly last year.

He's a sometimes very good goalie, sometimes very average.

It''s been along time since he followed up a good season with another good season.
He also has a Vezina, lead a team to a Stanley Cup Finals, and has carried bad teams to good records.

Yes his SV% is what it is because he has been on some terrible teams and been heavily overplayed.

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Old
05-02-2012, 05:18 AM
  #49
Bubba88
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Originally Posted by BBSeabs27 View Post
Understandable, but Bowman is going to want someone long term. We have no goalie prospects that will ever be a #1.
Goalies are the biggest lottery. I doubt one of our prospects will become an elite goalie, but with goalies it's always possible

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBSeabs27 View Post
Vokoun is 35, Kipp is 35, Thomas is 38.

All goalies available are old, and that only fixes our goalie problem for maybe 3-4 season, then what do we do?
Add Louu to the availables


and what should we do? get the best guy available and take of this problem later, when it becomes actual.

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Old
05-08-2012, 12:42 PM
  #50
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We need something NOW. Not 3 years from now. We draft a goalie for down the road and get Kipper or another elite for the interim.

He is a very elite goalie. Stats and numbers only tell some of the story. I have seen him play on too many occasions and he is exactly what we need!

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