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List of candidates for Assistant GM's and Coach Part VII

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Old
05-01-2012, 01:15 PM
  #151
bcv
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Sorry but can you please translate
Giguere no longer in the running.

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05-01-2012, 01:15 PM
  #152
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His work in Hartford was spectacularly bad, so bad not one player had a nice thing to say about him. Should I go get the article?
Personally, I take the article with a grain of salt. Look at what was written about Terry Francona as soon as he left the Red Sox - doesn't mean he's a bad coach.

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05-01-2012, 01:15 PM
  #153
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Claude Julien's work was so bad Gainey fired him even though we were in the middle of playoff chase. He was so bad in New Jersey that Lou listened to his players and fired him even though the Devils were 2nd overall. If He didn't win that 7th game against us, Julien would be working in Europe with Hartley.

And that was one article. How do you know the reporter didn't have it in for McGuire? Did you read the piece? Did you see what that writer wrote about Holmgren? Paul Holmgren who has rebuilt the Flyers from a bottom feeder to a SC contender.
The article isn't even the reason I don't like McGuire, so I don't really care. He failed in hartford, the same way Gauthier failed in Montreal. His 15 year hiatus does not bode well for him.

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Old
05-01-2012, 01:16 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Sorry but can you please translate
short story: McGuire one step closer to being Habs GM.




Just kidding.

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05-01-2012, 01:19 PM
  #155
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The article isn't even the reason I don't like McGuire, so I don't really care. He failed in hartford, the same way Gauthier failed in Montreal. His 15 year hiatus does not bode well for him.
The article reveals that he was a cocky, ambitious thirty-something. I'm sure few successful people have been accused of that.

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05-01-2012, 01:22 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by HomaridII View Post
I love Carey Price but if ask yourself this question ..

If somebody offered you TODAY:

Jaroslav Halak + Anze Kopitar for Carey Price

Would you say yes or no?

It turned out now that is the choice Montreal made when they drafted Carey Price over Kopitar.
Not to pick on you, since you aren't the only one saying it, but i keep seeing this equation repeated. If in your example we keep Halak, shouldn't the alternative include Eller (and Schultz too i guess, but probably insignificant)?

So it's more like:

Jaroslav Halak + Anze Kopitar for Carey Price + Lars Eller

Not saying that I still wouldn't make that trade, but i think it's only fair to show the whole picture.

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05-01-2012, 01:22 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by DenverHabsFan View Post
short story: McGuire one step closer to being Habs GM.




Just kidding.
FML

Anyone but him please, knows his hockey, but I hate him.

BTW, thanks 'bcv'


Last edited by habs03: 05-01-2012 at 01:28 PM.
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05-01-2012, 01:25 PM
  #158
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I didn't even know Giguere was still in the race. I thought the last 3 are McGuire, Bergevin and BriseBois.

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05-01-2012, 01:27 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Southside View Post
Not to pick on you, since you aren't the only one saying it, but i keep seeing this equation repeated. If in your example we keep Halak, shouldn't the alternative include Eller (and Schultz too i guess, but probably insignificant)?

So it's more like:

Jaroslav Halak + Anze Kopitar for Carey Price + Lars Eller

Not saying that I still wouldn't make that trade, but i think it's only fair to show the whole picture.
Actually you need to go one more step, if we draft Kopitar, there's no need to trade for Gomez.

So it's Halak + Kopitar + McDonagh for Price + Eller + Gomez

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05-01-2012, 01:28 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Sorry but can you please translate
Gigiučre has informed him that he's no longer in the running/race for GM position.

Good.

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05-01-2012, 01:28 PM
  #161
Andy
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Actually you need to go one more step, if we draft Kopitar, there's no need to trade for Gomez.

So it's Halak + Kopitar + McDonagh for Price + Eller + Gomez
Actually McGuire thought we should have picked Esposito over McDonagh. Also lol @ McGuire for thinking Yann Danis was goaltender depth.

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05-01-2012, 01:29 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by dcal64 View Post
Actually you need to go one more step, if we draft Kopitar, there's no need to trade for Gomez.

So it's Halak + Kopitar + McDonagh for Price + Eller + Gomez
But without Gomez we (allegedly) don't get Gionta and Cammalleri. And without Cammalleri we don't get Bourque, Holland and a 2nd rounder.

So it's Halak + Kopitar + McDonagh for Price + Eller + Gomez + Gionta + Bourque + Holland + 2nd round pick.


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05-01-2012, 01:30 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by DenverHabsFan View Post
The article reveals that he was a cocky, ambitious thirty-something. I'm sure few successful people have been accused of that.
Sure. Nothing wrong with making mistakes. The problem I have with Mcguire is that instead of swallowing his pride and trying to work his way up from a lesser position to attain his dream job, he wants to take a shortcut.

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05-01-2012, 01:31 PM
  #164
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But without Gomez we (allegedly) don't get Gionta and Cammalleri. And without Cammalleri we don't get Bourque, Holland and a 2nd rounder.

So it's Halak + Kopitar + McDonagh for Price + Eller + Gomez + Gionta + Bourque + Holland + 2nd round pick.

Didn't someone say McGuire wanted Staal first and foremost?

Halak+Staal+Esposito for Price+Eller+Gomez+Gionta+Bourque+Holland+2nd round pick

Also Gionta called Cole when he was trying to sign here. So you can add Cole there too

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05-01-2012, 01:32 PM
  #165
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Sure. Nothing wrong with making mistakes. The problem I have with Mcguire is that instead of swallowing his pride and trying to work his way up from a lesser position to attain his dream job, he wants to take a shortcut.
That is another problem I have with him. His attitude and opinions are much lesser problems. The 15 year hiatus, not know if he is able to do any of what he says he can do and not willing to put in the work is a big NO for me.

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05-01-2012, 01:35 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Knuckles30 View Post
I support McGuire as a candidate. I also support Bergevin as a candidate. I also supported Nill, and hope the Habs talk to Fenton. You asked for a reason why anyone would support him, I gave you 4. Doesn't mean he is the best for the job, just means I don't consider him a joke as many here do.

If anything I would say it's the McGuire haters who are operating on blind faith, as opposed to admitting they really know nothing about any candidate's qualifications.
Bam! Well said!

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05-01-2012, 01:37 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Sure. Nothing wrong with making mistakes. The problem I have with Mcguire is that instead of swallowing his pride and trying to work his way up from a lesser position to attain his dream job, he wants to take a shortcut.
ya a 15 year shortcut lol

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05-01-2012, 01:38 PM
  #168
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good interview from stephane waite on 985 about Bergevin the other day (not sure if mentioned). Said Bergevin is a great talent scout, knows pretty much everything there is to know about any player and has a ton of contacts around the league. Liking him more and more

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05-01-2012, 01:38 PM
  #169
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But without Gomez we (allegedly) don't get Gionta and Cammalleri. And without Cammalleri we don't get Bourque, Holland and a 2nd rounder.

So it's Halak + Kopitar + McDonagh for Price + Eller + Gomez + Gionta + Bourque + Holland + 2nd round pick.

That is accurate, but you need to add the 15 million in cap space we have, so we would have signed Richards and Gaborik.

So it's Halak + Kopitar + McDonagh + Richards + Gaborik for Price + Eller + Gomez + Gionta

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05-01-2012, 01:39 PM
  #170
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For one of the highest-ranking management positions in a multimillion dollar business? Is this a real question?

It certainly is relevant. It's not necessarily a disqualifier - though it likely would be for most management positions, especially one this high-ranking, in other types of businesses.
Well, as you pointed out, this isn't your usual managerial position. There are things that scholars will benefit from such as managing a budget of 100M dollars. But you don't necessarily need to get a BA in finance and then do a MBA to be able to do it either.

The most important thing right for a GM is hockey related vision. What type of team does he want, how will he work to obtain it, what's his take on upcoming picks/prospects, reputation among his peer certainly is interesting as well. For the rest, he can hire specialist that will work with him throughout it all.

But I guess it works both ways, you can say put the lawyer in place and let him surround himself with great hockey minds, or the other way around.
Personally, I think it's tougher to find a great hockey mind than it is to find a good lawyer. So, I pick Bergevin over Brisebois.
There's also the fact Brisebois comes from the Gainey/Gauthier era, and I don't want anybody coming here being linked to them. Time to fully move on.

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05-01-2012, 01:44 PM
  #171
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For one of the highest-ranking management positions in a multimillion dollar business? Is this a real question?
I don't really see the need for such a combative tone, frankly.

There is no evidence that education is really all that important for this position. I think it's slightly disingenuous for you to present this position as being one of the highest-ranking management positions in a multimillion dollar business, since the 'business' (see: money-making) side of things is handled by a completely separate staff, headed by the President, who significantly outranks the GM in the organisation's hierarchy.

If we look around the NHL, the GMs with a degree are:
Peter Chiarelli
Lou Lamoriello
Stan Bowman
Garth Snow
Ray Shero
Brian Burke
George McPhee
Jay Feaster
Greg Sherman
Scott Howson
Joe Nieuwendyk
Dean Lombardi
Chuck Fletcher
David Poile
Mike Gillis

NOTE: what some of these degrees held by these individuals are, however, I haven't checked up on. If they're English lit degrees, like McGuire's, I see absolutely no reason to think it's any more valuable than an 11th grade education.

GMs without any degree, as far as I could find:
Darcy Regier
Steve Yzerman
Jim Rutherford
Glen Sather
Bryan Murray
Paul Holmgren
Kevin Cheveldayoff
Bob Murray
Ken Holland
Steve Tambellini
Don Maloney
Doug Wilson
Doug Armstrong

I see nothing in the above lists that indicates education has given the former group a real leg-up.

As much as I appreciate education (and I qualify that to be some relevant education, which admittedly some in the former list don't have, IMO), I'm not sold on it being a real factor here. If an individual has performed in multiple positions in an organisation and has demonstrated a keen talent for management in hockey, then that's more tangible than a law degree from Harvard. (no, I'm not speaking of Bergevin v Burke here) I don't think it's fair to compare hockey to other businesses, because, well, it's not the same at all, and I'm perplexed at your attempt to draw that parallel.

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05-01-2012, 01:44 PM
  #172
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Imagine if the Toronto Maple Leafs were interviewing Michel Bergeron for their GM position. Oh, the LOLs we would have then.

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05-01-2012, 01:44 PM
  #173
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That is another problem I have with him. His attitude and opinions are much lesser problems. The 15 year hiatus, not know if he is able to do any of what he says he can do and not willing to put in the work is a big NO for me.
Aside from the obvious shortcomings on McGuire's resume in terms of relevant and recent NHL experience (which is a HUGE red flag as far as i'm concerned)...

I would also be very concerned with naming him as GM as Pierre McGuire is very much a fan of the Montreal Canadiens...it really comes across when you hear him speak about the Canadiens. As a guy who is clearly emotional, I have a hard time believing he'll be able to put his emotions aside as a GM of this team...that and his huge ego are personality traits that just scream out disaster to me.

John Davidson, another media personality who made the transition in an NHL front office, but not as a GM, but President...THAT'S the kind of role I could see Pierre McGuire cutting his teeth in Montreal.

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05-01-2012, 01:46 PM
  #174
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Also lol @ McGuire for thinking Yann Danis was goaltender depth.
Everyone thought he was goaltending depth. He was one of the best college FAs a year before that draft and had a great rookie season in Hamilton.

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05-01-2012, 01:50 PM
  #175
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Sure. Nothing wrong with making mistakes. The problem I have with Mcguire is that instead of swallowing his pride and trying to work his way up from a lesser position to attain his dream job, he wants to take a shortcut.
He went to the ECHL after that. Probably couldn't make much of a living there, so he took a sports media job and became something.

Saying he doesn't want to work his way from a lesser job is kind of out there. Maybe he'd love to, but maybe it's a much better situation for his family. We don't know. That's why, you let the people interviewing choose, not make unfounded assumptions*.

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