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*OFFICIAL* Windsor Spitfires 2012-13 Season Thread (Part 2)

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06-05-2012, 12:40 PM
  #426
Tigers1992
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Originally Posted by Libbs View Post
But they also play in a number of domestic and international tournaments as well, no?
U17s in December and the U18s in August. May be another.

Odds are if your good enough, you will be on the U18 rosters regardless (see Galchenyuk this year)

Not really enough to make one schedule great and another weak, in my opinion.

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06-05-2012, 01:06 PM
  #427
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This isn't a "Spitfire" thing, but I wanted to post it in here regardless. I've been told that Branch is coming out with a new rule for the upcoming season - You cannot fight more than 10 times in a season. Every time you fight beyond the 10 mark, you are suspended (2) two games per fight.

I don't think it has been made public yet, but something to certainly keep an eye/ear out for.

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06-05-2012, 01:19 PM
  #428
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This isn't a "Spitfire" thing, but I wanted to post it in here regardless. I've been told that Branch is coming out with a new rule for the upcoming season - You cannot fight more than 10 times in a season. Every time you fight beyond the 10 mark, you are suspended (2) two games per fight.

I don't think it has been made public yet, but something to certainly keep an eye/ear out for.
If this is indeed true then it will start the removing-fighting-from-chl process. First it will be ten then after a couple of seasons Branch will say "well if they can limit themselves to ten what is 3 less going to do?" and so on until they say "well 2 fights is pointless so lets set the no fights at all limit". If this happens that will be the end of my 12+ years of going to the spits games. I will NOT watch a game that allows the "dirty" hits to be given 5 games and the player trying to get retribution 20 games.

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06-05-2012, 01:23 PM
  #429
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This isn't a "Spitfire" thing, but I wanted to post it in here regardless. I've been told that Branch is coming out with a new rule for the upcoming season - You cannot fight more than 10 times in a season. Every time you fight beyond the 10 mark, you are suspended (2) two games per fight.

I don't think it has been made public yet, but something to certainly keep an eye/ear out for.
While I understand the rule aka the Ty Bilcke rule,one problem I have is if a guy is at 9,many players will attempt to goad or instigate,to avoid things like that ,rule should be,once said fighter hits 9 any fites he has where the other player is judged the instigator no suspension applies

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06-05-2012, 01:42 PM
  #430
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While I understand the rule aka the Ty Bilcke rule,one problem I have is if a guy is at 9,many players will attempt to goad or instigate,to avoid things like that ,rule should be,once said fighter hits 9 any fites he has where the other player is judged the instigator no suspension applies
I would agree with this but players need to get it out of their head that in order to be tough they have to fight. Jamie Devane was one of the tougher guys in the OHL and he only had 6 fighting majors. Going to the 10 fight rule will hopefully get rid of staged fights. People have said Bilcke can really play the game now this is his chance.

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06-05-2012, 01:45 PM
  #431
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If this is indeed true then it will start the removing-fighting-from-chl process. First it will be ten then after a couple of seasons Branch will say "well if they can limit themselves to ten what is 3 less going to do?" and so on until they say "well 2 fights is pointless so lets set the no fights at all limit". If this happens that will be the end of my 12+ years of going to the spits games. I will NOT watch a game that allows the "dirty" hits to be given 5 games and the player trying to get retribution 20 games.
I don't agree with this. If this rule is instituted it's in the players hands then, they will be the ones that have to police themselves. If there aren't many players getting over 10 fights I can see the 10 fight rule staying around. If players are going to go nuts and abuse this rule then the amount of fights will be reduced and rightfully so.

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06-05-2012, 02:04 PM
  #432
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U17s in December and the U18s in August. May be another.

Not really enough to make one schedule great and another weak, in my opinion.
The USNTDP's team in the USHL is really messed up. The U-17 and U-18 programs count as one USHL team and split the schedule. When tournaments pop up during the USHL season, the required team leaves the USHL and the other plays its league games. For example, for the U-18 WJC, it's the U-18 team that leaves during the USHL playoffs to play in that tournament.

That's why I personally think all this talk about how great the US has preformed in the U-18 tournament is overblown at best. Their success is designed by being the only country that rolls out a full fledged team and not a group of all-stars. It's also interesting they don't go head-to-head in the Hlinka with that same WJC team. Lame.

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06-05-2012, 02:07 PM
  #433
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I would agree with this but players need to get it out of their head that in order to be tough they have to fight. Jamie Devane was one of the tougher guys in the OHL and he only had 6 fighting majors. Going to the 10 fight rule will hopefully get rid of staged fights. People have said Bilcke can really play the game now this is his chance.
Devane wasn't a frequent fighter, though. The most he had in a season was 19. When you're his size, there aren't many people who will go you.

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06-05-2012, 04:07 PM
  #434
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Devane wasn't a frequent fighter, though. The most he had in a season was 19. When you're his size, there aren't many people who will go you.
I thought the direction for the entire CHL with Branch at the forefront was to institute a "No Fighting" rule right across Junior Hockey from Canada through to including the USA. That includes Major Junior on down through to Tier II and Minor Hockey. It's supposed to be voted on this Summer and the Modus Operandi is that as far as eliminating hits to the head, this was a 'no-brainer' easy one to eliminate. If it gets the same traction that Hockey USA is throwing at it then this could be the end of fighting period at non-pro levels at least. Guess we'll see.

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06-05-2012, 05:13 PM
  #435
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10 fights is a bit low, I would have said 15 games OR 10 games and a one-game suspension not a two-game suspension after 10. At least 20 of Bilcke's fights were staged silliness.

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06-05-2012, 05:30 PM
  #436
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We traded Carnevale for two second rounders last year IIRC.

And traded a 2nd, 3rd and 4th for a 3 mos Carrick rental.
as well we got a 3rd rounder for carnevale..

I tend to believe that the overpayment on Carrick was a way to keep the SOO mum on Ben Johnson (as comp)

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06-05-2012, 09:15 PM
  #437
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Devane wasn't a frequent fighter, though. The most he had in a season was 19. When you're his size, there aren't many people who will go you.
That's my point though. You don't have to fight to be tough. Devane used to be a guy who dropped the gloves his game evolved and he learned how to play and be tough at the same time. This is Bilcke's time to show he can play the game. If he can't play the game then move along.

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06-05-2012, 10:01 PM
  #438
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Devane's reputation proceeded him though - he was unchallenged because he wrecked fools earlier in his career. It is quality over quantity though - Bilcke was .500 at best - you only need to fight <10 times a year if you're win record is .900+ with unanimous decisions and tko's.

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06-05-2012, 10:09 PM
  #439
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At 19 the only guys fighting Ty will be the wannabees who are starting out and possibly one or two tough veterans who feel the need much like DEVANE this past year, and guys like GREENOP and even JANSEN in years past. Because Ty could actually play hockey he was on the ice enough to get a boatload of fights in as a rookie.

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06-05-2012, 11:45 PM
  #440
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I thought the direction for the entire CHL with Branch at the forefront was to institute a "No Fighting" rule right across Junior Hockey from Canada through to including the USA. That includes Major Junior on down through to Tier II and Minor Hockey. It's supposed to be voted on this Summer and the Modus Operandi is that as far as eliminating hits to the head, this was a 'no-brainer' easy one to eliminate. If it gets the same traction that Hockey USA is throwing at it then this could be the end of fighting period at non-pro levels at least. Guess we'll see.
If the direction of the entire CHL is to eliminate fighting, why are the WHL and Q not on board?

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Devane's reputation proceeded him though - he was unchallenged because he wrecked fools earlier in his career. It is quality over quantity though - Bilcke was .500 at best - you only need to fight <10 times a year if you're win record is .900+ with unanimous decisions and tko's.
He still didn't have many takers early in his career. I figure Bilcke could have been around 15-20 fights this year, at most, given there's no need to hit even 30 this time.

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06-06-2012, 09:44 AM
  #441
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10 fights is a bit low, I would have said 15 games OR 10 games and a one-game suspension not a two-game suspension after 10. At least 20 of Bilcke's fights were staged silliness.
Even if staged the fans eat it up.When has someone really gotten hurt? This is more social engineering by the control freaks in the political arena.They want everyone to conform like good robots.Branch and his cronies arent going to be happy until all the CHL's arena's look like kingston and Missy.Its coming you know,money is tight out there and people dont like these non viloence rules.They will vote with there non attendance.This is going down a slippery slope IMO.

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06-06-2012, 12:28 PM
  #442
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I fail to see the argument that by removing (or limiting) fighting, attendance will drop... it just doesn't make any sense to me.

I don't know about anyone else, but when I go to a hockey game, I go to watch hockey! I don't go there looking to watch the fights. I enjoy a good hockey fight as much as the next guy... but if I want my fight/violence fix, I'll go watch MMA.

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06-06-2012, 01:18 PM
  #443
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I fail to see the argument that by removing (or limiting) fighting, attendance will drop... it just doesn't make any sense to me.

I don't know about anyone else, but when I go to a hockey game, I go to watch hockey! I don't go there looking to watch the fights. I enjoy a good hockey fight as much as the next guy... but if I want my fight/violence fix, I'll go watch MMA.
Its not about seeing a fight every game like a boxing match I think the attendence will go down because we don't like "euro" hockey where the weak are good and the strong are suspended. Look at the KHL, Jagr couldn't stand it over there he constantly complained about all the games being cancelled because everybody constantly getting kicked out. Who wants to pay for season tickets knowing that if there are too many big hits or fights that the game won't continue and there would be no refund. And it will happen! Especially in the playoffs! IF I WANTED TO GO GET MY "Euro" sport fix I'll go watch soccer.

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06-06-2012, 01:49 PM
  #444
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I fail to see the argument that by removing (or limiting) fighting, attendance will drop... it just doesn't make any sense to me.

I don't know about anyone else, but when I go to a hockey game, I go to watch hockey! I don't go there looking to watch the fights. I enjoy a good hockey fight as much as the next guy... but if I want my fight/violence fix, I'll go watch MMA.

Taking the intimidation element out of a competitive contact sport alters the game. It turns a pizza with all the best toppings into a cheese pie. Takes the cursing out of a George Carlin comedy show. Takes the bang out of the fireworks. Etc, etc.
Fighting isn't only a physical part of the game but also psychological. I could be wrong maybe the number of people who like the game without this element vastly out number those who do and attendance will go through the roof, but they don't seem to show up in leagues that don't have fighting now or fighting would have been gone along time ago.

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06-06-2012, 01:56 PM
  #445
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Originally Posted by Libbs View Post
I fail to see the argument that by removing (or limiting) fighting, attendance will drop... it just doesn't make any sense to me.

I don't know about anyone else, but when I go to a hockey game, I go to watch hockey! I don't go there looking to watch the fights. I enjoy a good hockey fight as much as the next guy... but if I want my fight/violence fix, I'll go watch MMA.
For me it's not strictly about the fights, I enjoy watching tough, hard hitting hockey with some nastiness and at times the nastiness results in fights. What I don't want to see is the refs handing out 10 minute misconducts like their candy to curb the aggression and then we are left with passionless hockey and guys playing timid because they are afraid of getting tossed.

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06-06-2012, 02:14 PM
  #446
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I don't mind heat of the battle fights - but the staged stuff, and the "hey, it's the last two minutes, wanna go" stuff needs to get out of the game. Bilcke will have nobody to blame but himself given his 40 fight goal last season.

If you only have 10 fights, you'll save those up for the heat-of-the-moment happenings so I can't say I'm against it. I do think that after 10 fights, a suspension shouldn't be automatic if the other guy gets an instigator - I mean are you supposed to keep your gloves on and turtle, in which case the other guy would get 5 games for bullying?

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06-06-2012, 03:08 PM
  #447
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Hello All...hope you are well!
Any thoughts/rumours/opinions on what the Spitfires intend to do with the Import slots?
I am suspecting, that unless the B`s sign Koko, that he wont risk another injury in the CHL, unless he has some as "back up".
I would be gutted if he didnt return, but I understand the situation...any word over there?

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06-06-2012, 04:08 PM
  #448
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Originally Posted by Libbs View Post
I fail to see the argument that by removing (or limiting) fighting, attendance will drop... it just doesn't make any sense to me.

I don't know about anyone else, but when I go to a hockey game, I go to watch hockey! I don't go there looking to watch the fights. I enjoy a good hockey fight as much as the next guy... but if I want my fight/violence fix, I'll go watch MMA.
I'm a big MMA fan but mostly because everyone in MMA IS A FIGHTER! Not a hockey player that might not have any fighting skills. I watch MMA cause I know they're all staged professional fights with real fighters and weight categories, rules and rounds. I watch Hockey for the hockey aspect of game. Don't mind the odd fight especially when they're not staged and are heat of the battle or someone takes out the goalie for example. But if people think attendance will go down cause hockey doesn't have enough fights is dead wrong. If you're a fight fan, watch MMA or Boxing and you'll get nothing but fights. Less fights doesn't mean the hockey is worse cause last time I checked some of the best hockey was at the Olympics as an example and fights weren't breaking out but the intensity and level of play was as high as it gets. 10 fights is fine by me, anything more and you're being a pure pugilist and a 2 gamer at that point doesn't seem wholly out of bounds.

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06-06-2012, 04:53 PM
  #449
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10 fights is fine by me, anything more and you're being a pure pugilist
I don't buy that at all.

WHL:

Darren Kramer - 28 fights, 40 points last year. The year before? 47 fights and 14 points.

Andy Blank - 23 fights, 11 points; 15 fights and 14 points the year before.

Cody Beach - 20 fights, 56 points.


QMJHL:

Fighting major leader was Gabriel Verpaelst. He had 23 fights and 18 points.

OHL:

Anthony Camara had 30+ points and 15 fights.

Derek Mathers had 17 points and 24 fights.

Stephen Alonge had 10 points and 17 majors.

The point is the line should have been drawn at 15 or 20 fights. You can easily have 10 fights in 68 games without being a goon or pugilist.

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06-06-2012, 05:39 PM
  #450
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I don't mind heat of the battle fights - but the staged stuff, and the "hey, it's the last two minutes, wanna go" stuff needs to get out of the game. Bilcke will have nobody to blame but himself given his 40 fight goal last season.

If you only have 10 fights, you'll save those up for the heat-of-the-moment happenings so I can't say I'm against it. I do think that after 10 fights, a suspension shouldn't be automatic if the other guy gets an instigator - I mean are you supposed to keep your gloves on and turtle, in which case the other guy would get 5 games for bullying?
Exactly my point. They aren't eliminating fighting. They are trying to get rid of the "just kuz" fights. You can still fight when the time is right. I agree 10 is a bit steep and 2 games when you go over is dumb. Should be 15 fights and 1 game suspension.

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