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*OFFICIAL* Windsor Spitfires 2012-13 Season Thread (Part 2)

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Old
05-09-2012, 05:18 PM
  #101
big papa
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Originally Posted by OHLTG View Post
11-14, 2 SO, GAA under 4. Not horrible, though not great, and the last game probably didn't help matters at all.
Considering the way the team played infront of him his Numbers sound right even if sometimes he didnt look like he was up to playing and was just counting down his days till he played CIS or Pro in Germany

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05-09-2012, 08:31 PM
  #102
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But making it 20 years in a row is considered some big accomplishment?
That would be up to that person. It's the longest streak in OHL history I believe so it does mean something. Considering how many teams make the playoffs you would think another team would approach that.

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05-09-2012, 09:09 PM
  #103
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That would be up to that person. It's the longest streak in OHL history I believe so it does mean something. Considering how many teams make the playoffs you would think another team would approach that.
I'm sure a lot of that streak has to do with having good hockey ownership for 20 years plus. They've always had committed owners, a leg up on recruiting American prospects, and for the longest time played in a division that pretty much sucked most seasons. It's still an impressive accomplishment, however it doesn't compare to even one memorial cup championship. Nobody plays the game to just make the playoffs.

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05-09-2012, 10:11 PM
  #104
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Plymouth never goes all-in to go for it, meaning they never sacrifice next year for the current one. Such a play-off with no championship wins doesn't really impress me in the least.

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05-10-2012, 08:34 AM
  #105
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20 years in a row in the playoffs sounds impressive but if you break it down it really only shows consistency.

Every team has gone all in, the price to take a chance to win it all. Plymouth usually sticks with the kids they draft, no really big splashes unless they are selling. While you need to build through the draft you also need to augment your line up with a few impct players. As long as you cannot trade 1st round picks it will always be the case.

Plymouth can either remain consistent, keep making the playoffs which in a conference that 8 out of 10 teams make the playoffs really isn't overly impressive or they can actually go for it. Every other team has gone all in, some with more success than others.

Any team that wants to add to their top four rookies and an 18 year old Euro should be able to maintain a certain level of play since the line up will always remain experienced enough to be solid every year. Without adding a few extra impact players they will very rarely be in a position to challenge for anything more than a couple of rounds in the playoffs.

20 years sounds impressive but 20 years with not much to show for it at the end of the day when only 2 out of 10 teams missed the playoffs each year doesn't sound quite as impressive.

They are consistent but unwilling to do what it takes to win it all.

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05-10-2012, 10:18 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by cfaub View Post
20 years in a row in the playoffs sounds impressive but if you break it down it really only shows consistency.

Every team has gone all in, the price to take a chance to win it all. Plymouth usually sticks with the kids they draft, no really big splashes unless they are selling. While you need to build through the draft you also need to augment your line up with a few impct players. As long as you cannot trade 1st round picks it will always be the case.

Plymouth can either remain consistent, keep making the playoffs which in a conference that 8 out of 10 teams make the playoffs really isn't overly impressive or they can actually go for it. Every other team has gone all in, some with more success than others.

Any team that wants to add to their top four rookies and an 18 year old Euro should be able to maintain a certain level of play since the line up will always remain experienced enough to be solid every year. Without adding a few extra impact players they will very rarely be in a position to challenge for anything more than a couple of rounds in the playoffs.

20 years sounds impressive but 20 years with not much to show for it at the end of the day when only 2 out of 10 teams missed the playoffs each year doesn't sound quite as impressive.

They are consistent but unwilling to do what it takes to win it all.
I am not necessarily sure it only shows consistency since becoming a franchise and being around for 21 years or so they have won 2 OHL titles and been to 5 OHL Finals. I realize 8 teams make the playoffs in every conference but if it's so easy to make the playoffs why hasn't another team been able to put together a streak like that together? Once again you can't win a championship if you don't make the playoffs and if you're an 8th seed you're probably not going to win either this isn't the NHL. Usually to win it all in the OHL you need to be a 1 or 2 seed in the conference the better shot you have to win.

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05-10-2012, 02:30 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
I am not necessarily sure it only shows consistency since becoming a franchise and being around for 21 years or so they have won 2 OHL titles and been to 5 OHL Finals. I realize 8 teams make the playoffs in every conference but if it's so easy to make the playoffs why hasn't another team been able to put together a streak like that together? Once again you can't win a championship if you don't make the playoffs and if you're an 8th seed you're probably not going to win either this isn't the NHL. Usually to win it all in the OHL you need to be a 1 or 2 seed in the conference the better shot you have to win.
If not maily consistency then what does it show?

When was the last time Plymouth went all in to go for it?

When was the last time they won it all?

When they were considered as the odds on favourite fom the West at the start of the year they stood pat and did what? They made it to the second round and while they may have a solid line up returning next year it does not look as strong to start the year as last year did if they are losing their starting goaltender and likely three of their top six blueliners.

What is going to change between this season and next to say they will do things any differently to win it all?

If they follow the same pattern they have for years now they will be a solid 3rd to 6th team that gets in the playoffs, maybe wins the first round and likely goes out in the second with everyone saying the same thing they do every year about Plymouth, they didn't go all in which leaves them assets for next season when they should be stronger.

If nothing ever changes then it is consistent and unless they go all in one day they are not likely to win it all anytime soon unless the NHL changes the draft age because that changes things as well if you have a couple of top end kids who are capable of moving up as 18 or 19 year olds.

Tyler Seguin has been gone for two seasons, he could have been an OA next season. You can't bet on four years for any kid so while they may have drafted some other kids since then whose to say they will be here for four years?

If you have the line up then you need to go for it when the chance is there otherwise while you may make the playoffs every season you are not likely going to win it all betting on all your draft picks playing a full OHL career.

If they go all in they will likely miss the playoffs a season or two later unless they have a bunch of flyer picks showing up every season.

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05-10-2012, 02:52 PM
  #108
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Give me two Cups and three-straight trips to the west finals over 20-years of making the playoffs with nothing to show for it any day.

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05-10-2012, 03:05 PM
  #109
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IMHO....to reach the playoffs year after year is very simple.
Keep all of your draft picks and draft safe picks who will show up.
Hire an average coach and scouting staff.
Play the trap (not 100% necessary though).

Never ever roll the dice by "going for it" since it may cost you in the future.
But the fans will never experience any true "highs" or enjoy seeing young kids develop into a powerhouse.

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05-10-2012, 03:10 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by cfaub View Post
If not maily consistency then what does it show?

When was the last time Plymouth went all in to go for it?

When was the last time they won it all?

When they were considered as the odds on favourite fom the West at the start of the year they stood pat and did what? They made it to the second round and while they may have a solid line up returning next year it does not look as strong to start the year as last year did if they are losing their starting goaltender and likely three of their top six blueliners.

What is going to change between this season and next to say they will do things any differently to win it all?

If they follow the same pattern they have for years now they will be a solid 3rd to 6th team that gets in the playoffs, maybe wins the first round and likely goes out in the second with everyone saying the same thing they do every year about Plymouth, they didn't go all in which leaves them assets for next season when they should be stronger.

If nothing ever changes then it is consistent and unless they go all in one day they are not likely to win it all anytime soon unless the NHL changes the draft age because that changes things as well if you have a couple of top end kids who are capable of moving up as 18 or 19 year olds.

Tyler Seguin has been gone for two seasons, he could have been an OA next season. You can't bet on four years for any kid so while they may have drafted some other kids since then whose to say they will be here for four years?

If you have the line up then you need to go for it when the chance is there otherwise while you may make the playoffs every season you are not likely going to win it all betting on all your draft picks playing a full OHL career.

If they go all in they will likely miss the playoffs a season or two later unless they have a bunch of flyer picks showing up every season.
07-Daniel Ryder, O'Connor and Whitely

I still thought London was the odds on favorite this year or certainly 1a or b with Plymouth so there was no heavy favorite this year. Once again their starting goalie next year was more productive in net than Wedgewood seems to me they should be fine in net.

What's going to change? Taking everything at face value and people not making the NHL Miller should be a lot better after his first year in the OHL. Noesen is capable of leading the league in scoring. They return 5 of their top 6 scorers which should help things and with Tom Wilson a possible 1st round pick and Ryan Hartman. They should have around 6 ppg scorers which is kind of the baseline you want for a contending team. London had 5 this year, Niagara had 6 this year Plymouth only had 4.

Since you seem to hold other teams to a different standard. what should Windsor do if Rychel is going to be a high pick? Should the Spits go all in next year since Rychel may not be around for another year? What happens if they get a top import who's a top 10 pick and he may not return? I would bet you a large sum of money regardless of how good Windsor is next year Rychel will not take a shot at a championship. If that's the case I expect you to criticze Windsor the same way you criticize Plymouth.

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05-10-2012, 03:15 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by OHLTG View Post
Give me two Cups and three-straight trips to the west finals over 20-years of making the playoffs with nothing to show for it any day.
They have won 2 OHL titles though over those 20 years so they do have something to show for it.

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05-10-2012, 04:53 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
07-Daniel Ryder, O'Connor and Whitely

I still thought London was the odds on favorite this year or certainly 1a or b with Plymouth so there was no heavy favorite this year. Once again their starting goalie next year was more productive in net than Wedgewood seems to me they should be fine in net.

What's going to change? Taking everything at face value and people not making the NHL Miller should be a lot better after his first year in the OHL. Noesen is capable of leading the league in scoring. They return 5 of their top 6 scorers which should help things and with Tom Wilson a possible 1st round pick and Ryan Hartman. They should have around 6 ppg scorers which is kind of the baseline you want for a contending team. London had 5 this year, Niagara had 6 this year Plymouth only had 4.

Since you seem to hold other teams to a different standard. what should Windsor do if Rychel is going to be a high pick? Should the Spits go all in next year since Rychel may not be around for another year? What happens if they get a top import who's a top 10 pick and he may not return? I would bet you a large sum of money regardless of how good Windsor is next year Rychel will not take a shot at a championship. If that's the case I expect you to criticze Windsor the same way you criticize Plymouth.
If the baseline is 6 ppg players, then Windsor should be fine with Koko, Rychel, Vail, Marchese all very likely and Maletta, Ho-Sang and Johnson all very probable and not to mention the potential for a top import.

When guys like Stamkos, Seguin and Skinner were in their draft year, they had a star quality and, to me at least, were clearly the best players on their teams. So I was not surprised that they were not sent back to juniors. I don't see that star quality in Rychel's game, I think he'll be a first rounder, but not top ten and will be in Windsor for their Host bid. Having said that, if Windsor is dynamite next year I can see Warren making deals to improve the team, but mayber for guys who will be in the line-up the next year as well.

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05-10-2012, 05:12 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
They have won 2 OHL titles though over those 20 years so they do have something to show for it.
What about the Memorial Cup? We don't play for the OHL title.

As for Kerby making the NHL in the next couple of years...can't see it. No way. He's legit, but he's a one-year player so far. One year of solid stats.

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05-10-2012, 05:21 PM
  #114
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What about the Memorial Cup? We don't play for the OHL title.

As for Kerby making the NHL in the next couple of years...can't see it. No way. He's legit, but he's a one-year player so far. One year of solid stats.
Would have to agree with you, nothing against the Whalers as they are a respected organization and have those two titles to show for it. I think Windsors back to back Memorial Cups are more impressive as that pretty much never happens although St. Johns may do it this year.

As far as Kerby making the NHL there is no way that happens, he is a great player but is by no means NHL ready yet.

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05-10-2012, 07:59 PM
  #115
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With 09/10 being the year Rychel was looking to make a run when he had a shot in 08/09 he went for it and yes I would have been rather disappointed if he sold that year instead of going for it.

This year should be no exception, if he has a legite shot at making a run he should be making smart moves to add and go for it. If he gets the bid in 2014 and can pull off a major coup next year and go far, or even pull off deals to go all the way a chance to repeat at home would be something. No, I am not expecting them to be in a position to go that far next season without a major turn around. If the chance is there then yes he should be making a push for a run.

As for London and Plymouth being a 1A and 1B this year, I don't and have not seen many who thought that. Most thought London had a shot at their division but with what was expected to be a still pretty young line up winning their division and going a couple of rounds in the playoffs was what most were expecting. Plymouth was being thought of by many as the team to beat from all I read. London put Hunter in a position to go for it or stand pat. If he would have stood still and kept building for next year I would have been disappointed in the tactic. A young team that was clearly playing well and not just overachieving, similar to Windsor in 08/09. Even with Dale leaving for the NHL Mark had another reason/excuse to stand pat and he didn't. I can respect the decision to make the push when the chance came up, you don't know when the next will come.

Velucci had a more veteran line up than London, he stood pat and was knocked out in the second round again. One made a push and one stood still. They both gambled on their decision and whose is paying off at the moment?

20 straight years is impressive simply based on the numbers. Yes Plymouth has had some success but when 80 per cent of the teams make the playoffs he should have more than 2 OHL titles to show for that much success when you consider how many different teams have not made the playoffs in that time frame as well. Obviously over the years everyone has missed at least once, I don't know how many times each team has missed but with much less success as far as playoff experience there are a few teams who have had almost as much success when it comes to titles in the same time frame without the same number of appearances.

If the goal in sports is to win and a team has similar playoof success, titles etc but fewer playoff appearances which team has been more successful, Plymouth because of more playoff appearances or another team with fewer playoff appearances but a similar success rate in the appearances they have especially when making the playoffs should not be overly difficult?

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05-10-2012, 09:00 PM
  #116
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I think before the season started Plymouth was thought to be the top team but after the trade deadline it was pretty obvious that London would be the team to beat. Adding McKegg and Watson for a criminally ridiculous price allows them to be in the mix next season while still clearly going for it this year. Plymouth's lack of moves was absolutely puzzling to me at the deadline. They should have been the class of the west, but they traded away a first round player in Iafrate without getting anything useful back, then watched London bulk up on the cheap without any sort of response. I remember them trading for Caria, Fletcher, Brittain, McCrae, and Ryder over the past few years in half assed attempts to bulk up for the playoffs, so it's not like Vellucci is afraid to do anything. He's just afraid to do enough it seems. Time will tell if London did enough, but it's looking good so far for them.

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05-10-2012, 10:15 PM
  #117
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Don't forget that the whalers lost their best player/leading scorer and another top 6 forward in the first round. Noesen was a huge loss for that team

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05-10-2012, 10:24 PM
  #118
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I think before the season started Plymouth was thought to be the top team but after the trade deadline it was pretty obvious that London would be the team to beat. Adding McKegg and Watson for a criminally ridiculous price allows them to be in the mix next season while still clearly going for it this year. Plymouth's lack of moves was absolutely puzzling to me at the deadline. They should have been the class of the west, but they traded away a first round player in Iafrate without getting anything useful back, then watched London bulk up on the cheap without any sort of response. I remember them trading for Caria, Fletcher, Brittain, McCrae, and Ryder over the past few years in half assed attempts to bulk up for the playoffs, so it's not like Vellucci is afraid to do anything. He's just afraid to do enough it seems. Time will tell if London did enough, but it's looking good so far for them.
I really do not think they got McKegg for as low of a price as you say. Two 2nd rounds, Fox who will be a top three round draft pick, and Donnay who will get drafted and when he fills out should be a monster, both have two more years of eligibility. Cook is an OA and although I always liked him he would not have brought in a whole lot, and Tyson who has been awful. Difficult to say London did not win in the deal but we will see in the next few years, McKegg has not really done much all playoffs as Watson has been much better.

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05-10-2012, 10:57 PM
  #119
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Watson was the complete head-scratcher in that London gave up literally nothing for him. Plymouth could have beat it and should have - makes me wonder if there is money changing hands in this deal. We paid more for Carrick.

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05-11-2012, 03:53 PM
  #120
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Watson was the complete head-scratcher in that London gave up literally nothing for him. Plymouth could have beat it and should have - makes me wonder if there is money changing hands in this deal. We paid more for Carrick.
There was cash going back

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05-11-2012, 04:27 PM
  #121
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Watson was the complete head-scratcher in that London gave up literally nothing for him. Plymouth could have beat it and should have - makes me wonder if there is money changing hands in this deal. We paid more for Carrick.
Watson more or less picked where he wanted to go. He said no to a Sarnia deal, there wasn't mutual interest in Plymouth and what was Watson left with?

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05-11-2012, 05:33 PM
  #122
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Not sure why this hasnt been posted yet, may not be big enough news, but the Windsor Spitfires have named Terry Doran assistant GM
per spitfires website

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05-11-2012, 05:52 PM
  #123
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Not sure why this hasnt been posted yet, may not be big enough news, but the Windsor Spitfires have named Terry Doran assistant GM
per spitfires website
I saw that and Doran probably deserves. Not necessarily sure how much his actual job will change. It's possible Rychel and Boughner leave after a possible Memorial Cup though and this is kind of greasing the wheel for the change. Rychel leaves and you can promote Doran who was already assistant GM. If he wasn't assistant GM that would be promoting your head scout, kind of semantics especially with Doran who's been a GM before but I can see Doran taking over as GM in a couple years.

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05-11-2012, 06:04 PM
  #124
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I saw that and Doran probably deserves. Not necessarily sure how much his actual job will change. It's possible Rychel and Boughner leave after a possible Memorial Cup though and this is kind of greasing the wheel for the change. Rychel leaves and you can promote Doran who was already assistant GM. If he wasn't assistant GM that would be promoting your head scout, kind of semantics especially with Doran who's been a GM before but I can see Doran taking over as GM in a couple years.
I Agree

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05-11-2012, 06:12 PM
  #125
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Doran Promotion

In response To Doran post

I read the Star article and thought perhaps the timing of the added title + raise might be the result of the recent ownership changes in Guelph and Mississauga.
Not sure if it applies in the OHL as it does in other sports where lateral moves
are harder to make than promotions.


Last edited by punch1943: 05-11-2012 at 06:15 PM. Reason: wrong quote
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