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*OFFICIAL* Windsor Spitfires 2012-13 Season Thread (Part 2)

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05-24-2012, 05:57 AM
  #201
RayzorIsDull
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Never... sorry but thats an unrealistic expectation. He may have 40 in him in 2 years but thats it.
Thank you, the last Spitfire to do it of course was Steve Ott. Johnson is a solid player but unless he has better players around him what you see is what you get. He has problems creating his own offense and certainly doesn't shoot enough to get that many goals. To put it in perspective Taylor Hall barely approached 50 goals and that would have been in his rookie year. Better players like Henrique, Nemisz, Kuhnhackl etc.. never even approached 50 and Ben Johnson will?

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05-24-2012, 07:53 AM
  #202
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had Johnson done in the first part of the season what he achieved in the second half he'd have had about 27 goals ... as a rookie.
unless his production drops off 40 goals in a season this year or the next is certainly within reach.
50 goals may be a stretch, except that Windsor will likely have a more talented team two years from now than they had last year.
Johnson will likely either have more talent playing on his line OR be facing lesser talented lines when he is on the ice, so 50 is only a slight stretch within 2 years.
IF Johnson were back as an overager he'd likely be seeing major minutes in all situations and that might be his best opportunity to reach 50.

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05-24-2012, 09:30 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by OHLTG View Post
He's Eric Wellwood meets Steve Ott; Wellwood's speed and finishing ability with Ott's knack for pi$$ing everyone off within 100 feet of him.
Really? I'd say the Ben Johnson who drinks Cheetah is more of an agitator than the one who plays for the Spits.

For Johnson to become a consistent goal scorer and even reach 40, he's going to have to pay the price more going to the dirty areas and driving the night. He improved over the year from settling on those 20-foot wristers that probably worked in the Michigan high school leagues but won't get it done here and beyond. I think 40 goals at his peak in the OHL will be realistic.

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I don't get the hate for either Braithe or Posa. Neither is going to be a stud offensively, and neither is going to be Scott Stevens with their physical play. What they'll provide, though, is reliable defence, some offence, some physicality, and good leadership in the room. Both are under-rated to me.
I agree that Braithewaite is underrated on this thread. Not sure what people were expecting from him but he's a dependable rock who makes the right play and settled down a young corp. With what happened with Holden, without Braithewaite's consistency, the Spits don't make the playoffs. Hands down he was the best blueliner down the stretch for the Spits.

As for Posa, as much as I enjoy his ability to go end to end every now and then, I was quite disappointed at some really poor turnovers he had down the stretch. Unless he pulls his Scott Niedermayer imitation on a regular basis, I'd rather see Posa get dealt before Braithewaite.

Posa, Ebert and Braithewaite will need to carry the bulk of the load while the rest of the blueline figures it out. I think Bateman will establish himself quickly this season but Devlin will be playing for the right to stay a Spit. I wouldn't be surprised if McNaughton is a regular and Devlin is gone by the deadline. As for any American prospects or 2012 picks, like all rookies no matter how highly touted, they'll just be tryinig to figure out the league. Trading any of the trio prior to guys figuring it out would be sabotage.

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05-24-2012, 11:50 AM
  #204
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Originally Posted by dereksutton9 View Post
Really? I'd say the Ben Johnson who drinks Cheetah is more of an agitator than the one who plays for the Spits.

For Johnson to become a consistent goal scorer and even reach 40, he's going to have to pay the price more going to the dirty areas and driving the night. He improved over the year from settling on those 20-foot wristers that probably worked in the Michigan high school leagues but won't get it done here and beyond. I think 40 goals at his peak in the OHL will be realistic.



I agree that Braithewaite is underrated on this thread. Not sure what people were expecting from him but he's a dependable rock who makes the right play and settled down a young corp. With what happened with Holden, without Braithewaite's consistency, the Spits don't make the playoffs. Hands down he was the best blueliner down the stretch for the Spits.

As for Posa, as much as I enjoy his ability to go end to end every now and then, I was quite disappointed at some really poor turnovers he had down the stretch. Unless he pulls his Scott Niedermayer imitation on a regular basis, I'd rather see Posa get dealt before Braithewaite.

Posa, Ebert and Braithewaite will need to carry the bulk of the load while the rest of the blueline figures it out. I think Bateman will establish himself quickly this season but Devlin will be playing for the right to stay a Spit. I wouldn't be surprised if McNaughton is a regular and Devlin is gone by the deadline. As for any American prospects or 2012 picks, like all rookies no matter how highly touted, they'll just be tryinig to figure out the league. Trading any of the trio prior to guys figuring it out would be sabotage.
I think Johnson looks more like Daryl Lloyd, lots of speed, gets decent chances but can't capitalize on them. As for Braithwaite or Posa it really doesn't matter to me which one stays or goes I just don't want both back and then the Spits to go get an OA goalie. A crop of OA goalie, Posa and Braithwaite doesn't look good to me considering goal scoring was a big area of concern as well.

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05-24-2012, 12:31 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Libbs View Post
Never... sorry but thats an unrealistic expectation. He may have 40 in him in 2 years but thats it.
Care to make a friendly wager?

Quote:
Better players like Henrique, Nemisz, Kuhnhackl etc.. never even approached 50 and Ben Johnson will?
Henrique was a two-way player who also had Hall and Nemisz (same goes for Nemisz, really). He wasn't going to score 50.

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05-24-2012, 03:52 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by OHLTG View Post
Care to make a friendly wager?



Henrique was a two-way player who also had Hall and Nemisz (same goes for Nemisz, really). He wasn't going to score 50.
I think that's kind of a cop out. Why didn't Hall ever score 50? Ott got 50 because he was on a line with Spezza and that's not taking anything away from Ott but there's a reason that he had a lot of success. How do you think Johnson approaches 50? Is he going to get 50 by having Michael Clarke on his line? If Johnson ever comes close to 50 he has to have a talented linemate do you agree?

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05-24-2012, 06:21 PM
  #207
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My view on Johnson is that he might peak at 35 goals,but at same time be a real effective 2 way player
I love his speed and willingness to hit
I agree with others it depends on who he plays with,determines his full offensive potential
He strikes me as more of a Darren Helm type player with his speed and hustle,and tossing in some offensive capabilities

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05-24-2012, 06:46 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
I think that's kind of a cop out. Why didn't Hall ever score 50? Ott got 50 because he was on a line with Spezza and that's not taking anything away from Ott but there's a reason that he had a lot of success. How do you think Johnson approaches 50? Is he going to get 50 by having Michael Clarke on his line? If Johnson ever comes close to 50 he has to have a talented linemate do you agree?
When you're on a line with talented teammates who can finish just as well, you're not going to score as many. Same as if you put a scorer on a line with grinders or defence-first players.

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05-24-2012, 06:54 PM
  #209
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Well we are 4 plus weeks to the NHL and CHL import drafts,and I imagine things are still unsettled leading up to those 2 events
Question #1- Does Khoklachev return from Russia for his final jr season
Question #2- Does Pavelka get moved and for what assets,I still think he will traded btw
Question #3- Do the Spits acquire an O/A goalie ie- Morrison from Pet or a 19 year old goalie ie D'agostini,Chartrand or Clint Windsor,assuming of course Pavelka is moved
Question #4- Which O/A s start the season? Posa,Braithwaite,and Czinder
Question # 5- Which American drafted players do you target heavily- Barber,Seiloff,De Guisseppe
Answers to many of these questions are not easy,alot of variables involved
I will try to analayze each as I see it and from what I have heard as well
Question #1 was whether Koko returns- still not sure on this one but if he plans not to dont be surprised to see the Spits trade both their 1st rd euro picks for next year to acquire another 1st rder for this year
This combined with the trading of Pavelka and answering my 2nd question would allow the spits to draft 2 Euros
My targets if this were to occur would be 2 Swedish players,D-man Robert Haag and forward with the last name of DeRose
Both players have great size and i feel would make an impact immediately despite being 17 years old
Their acquistion would be good for 2-3 years,with Haag being an Ollie Maata type D-man
DeRose would be a power size winger in the making with huge upside
Question #3 deals with the acquistion of a goalie,if the Spits were to get Haag,I would be tempted to go after o/a goalie Morrison,although I prefer a 19 year old such as Windsor or Dagostini,so I could with an o/a in 2013/14
Getting a player like Haag,means the Spits might need only 1 o/a D-man,and that would be Posa in my opinion
Which brings me to the 4th question of O/A s
If Spits gets a goalie ie Morrison,1 of Posa,Braithwaite and Czinder would be sacrificed
I think late Sept or early Oct is when this area will be settled
The final question #5 was which Americans should be heavily targeted,I say Seiloff would be my main target,with Barber the 2nd one,Deguiseepe is a 93 born,not sure he would be back an an O/a for 2013/14 though it would be desirable
Another American maybe to be considered would be 94 born Rw Tony Calderone who was picked 1st in the prospect draft of the USHL by Sioux Falls on Tuesday
Now he is committed to Princeton as of now,but he had a great season with Detriot Victory Honda leading his team in scoring,reg season and playoffs,after missing the previous season to shoulder surgery
Interesting questions for sure ,and alot to think about
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05-24-2012, 07:12 PM
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeylegend11 View Post
Well we are 4 plus weeks to the NHL and CHL import drafts,and I imagine things are still unsettled leading up to those 2 events
Question #1- Does Khoklachev return from Russia for his final jr season
Question #2- Does Pavelka get moved and for what assets,I still think he will traded btw
Question #3- Do the Spits acquire an O/A goalie ie- Morrison from Pet or a 19 year old goalie ie D'agostini,Chartrand or Clint Windsor,assuming of course Pavelka is moved
Question #4- Which O/A s start the season? Posa,Braithwaite,and Czinder
Question # 5- Which American drafted players do you target heavily- Barber,Seiloff,De Guisseppe
Answers to many of these questions are not easy,alot of variables involved
I will try to analayze each as I see it and from what I have heard as well
Question #1 was whether Koko returns- still not sure on this one but if he plans not to dont be surprised to see the Spits trade both their 1st rd euro picks for next year to acquire another 1st rder for this year
This combined with the trading of Pavelka and answering my 2nd question would allow the spits to draft 2 Euros
My targets if this were to occur would be 2 Swedish players,D-man Robert Haag and forward with the last name of DeRose
Both players have great size and i feel would make an impact immediately despite being 17 years old
Their acquistion would be good for 2-3 years,with Haag being an Ollie Maata type D-man
DeRose would be a power size winger in the making with huge upside
Question #3 deals with the acquistion of a goalie,if the Spits were to get Haag,I would be tempted to go after o/a goalie Morrison,although I prefer a 19 year old such as Windsor or Dagostini,so I could with an o/a in 2013/14
Getting a player like Haag,means the Spits might need only 1 o/a D-man,and that would be Posa in my opinion
Which brings me to the 4th question of O/A s
If Spits gets a goalie ie Morrison,1 of Posa,Braithwaite and Czinder would be sacrificed
I think late Sept or early Oct is when this area will be settled
The final question #5 was which Americans should be heavily targeted,I say Seiloff would be my main target,with Barber the 2nd one,Deguiseepe is a 93 born,not sure he would be back an an O/a for 2013/14 though it would be desirable
Another American maybe to be considered would be 94 born Rw Tony Calderone who was picked 1st in the prospect draft of the USHL by Sioux Falls on Tuesday
Now he is committed to Princeton as of now,but he had a great season with Detriot Victory Honda leading his team in scoring,reg season and playoffs,after missing the previous season to shoulder surgery
Interesting questions for sure ,and alot to think about
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Morrison likely, no way you get D'agostini unless the petes are taking a Euro goalie.

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05-24-2012, 07:31 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by PetesFan94 View Post
Morrison likely, no way you get D'agostini unless the petes are taking a Euro goalie.
What about Pavelka for Dagostini?

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05-24-2012, 08:02 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by hockeylegend11 View Post
What about Pavelka for Dagostini?
No way. Petes need help up front with that Euro pick. Not enough improvement in Net to warrant giving up a euro spot.

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05-24-2012, 08:42 PM
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeylegend11 View Post
Well we are 4 plus weeks to the NHL and CHL import drafts,and I imagine things are still unsettled leading up to those 2 events
Question #1- Does Khoklachev return from Russia for his final jr season
Question #2- Does Pavelka get moved and for what assets,I still think he will traded btw
Question #3- Do the Spits acquire an O/A goalie ie- Morrison from Pet or a 19 year old goalie ie D'agostini,Chartrand or Clint Windsor,assuming of course Pavelka is moved
Question #4- Which O/A s start the season? Posa,Braithwaite,and Czinder
Question # 5- Which American drafted players do you target heavily- Barber,Seiloff,De Guisseppe
Answers to many of these questions are not easy,alot of variables involved
I will try to analayze each as I see it and from what I have heard as well
Question #1 was whether Koko returns- still not sure on this one but if he plans not to dont be surprised to see the Spits trade both their 1st rd euro picks for next year to acquire another 1st rder for this year
This combined with the trading of Pavelka and answering my 2nd question would allow the spits to draft 2 Euros
My targets if this were to occur would be 2 Swedish players,D-man Robert Haag and forward with the last name of DeRose
Both players have great size and i feel would make an impact immediately despite being 17 years old
Their acquistion would be good for 2-3 years,with Haag being an Ollie Maata type D-man
DeRose would be a power size winger in the making with huge upside
Question #3 deals with the acquistion of a goalie,if the Spits were to get Haag,I would be tempted to go after o/a goalie Morrison,although I prefer a 19 year old such as Windsor or Dagostini,so I could with an o/a in 2013/14
Getting a player like Haag,means the Spits might need only 1 o/a D-man,and that would be Posa in my opinion
Which brings me to the 4th question of O/A s
If Spits gets a goalie ie Morrison,1 of Posa,Braithwaite and Czinder would be sacrificed
I think late Sept or early Oct is when this area will be settled
The final question #5 was which Americans should be heavily targeted,I say Seiloff would be my main target,with Barber the 2nd one,Deguiseepe is a 93 born,not sure he would be back an an O/a for 2013/14 though it would be desirable
Another American maybe to be considered would be 94 born Rw Tony Calderone who was picked 1st in the prospect draft of the USHL by Sioux Falls on Tuesday
Now he is committed to Princeton as of now,but he had a great season with Detriot Victory Honda leading his team in scoring,reg season and playoffs,after missing the previous season to shoulder surgery
Interesting questions for sure ,and alot to think about
Comments
Great post and it raises plenty of questions..............

......Starting with #5...US targets

My targets would be #1 Pat Sieloff a '94
#1A Jordan Schmaltz a late 93 so this is his draft year.
#2 Phil DiGiuseppe also a late 93 and this is his draft year.
#3 Riley Barber a 94
Tony Calderone is a late 94 as is Kerby Rychel- draft yr 2013[/B]

Question #4.. If the Spits are able to land Sieloff or Schmaltz
It would free up Posa or Braithwaite for trades and allow the Spits to get
an O/A scorer.

Question #3.. I'd prefer a goaltender that has 2 years left and is not an import. I feel an import goalie handcuffs a team unless he's a game changer.

Question #2 .. trading Pavelka. He did have his moments but my preference is the import slots be filled with skilled forwards not defencemen or goaltenders. If the Spits can find a trading partner for Pavelka by including some future 2nd round picks along with him I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Question #1... Koko. Will he join the KHL or return to the Spits? He is a sometimes good, sometimes great player who appeared disinterested when he returned from the Worlds. From all accounts he showed well at the Bruins training camp but I'm sure they were less than impressed with his late season effort. Rumours of the KHL $$$ calling abound. I'm sure the Bruins would prefer he plays in the O rather than mother Russia. If the Spits can upgrade their team in the next few weeks it might have an effect on Koko's decision.

Now that high school is finished in the U.S. and the USHL playoffs have concluded we should with any luck hear some whispers of potential additions to the Spits. If any of the US players do agree to join the Spits it will make the long wait until training camp much more bearable.

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05-24-2012, 09:14 PM
  #214
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Real good response to questions raised,I really doubt Schmaltz reports however,I would be pleased if Spits landed Sieloff and Hagg

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05-25-2012, 09:12 AM
  #215
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Seiloff and Haag would remake the defence. However we'd probably have to move Devlin along with Braithwaite.

Ebert, Posa, Bateman, Sanvido would be our other four with Bowen/Brown being #7.

I think we need to move up in the import draft if it's possible. I don't trust bringing Russians over - but Swedes have the SEL just the same. What about trading our import pick for a Canadian kid?

I think we have to trade up or trade out. Trade up go get a top kid you know will report now. Or trade out and get a Canadian kid who you can add to our line-up - London might be looking for a new import to replaces Namesnikov and could afford to buy them over.

If we do use our import pick, I think we go offense. Our team will lack a dynamic offensive threat outside of Ho-Sang assuming he's all he's advertised as come 2014.

Koko's drama is between Boston and his family. They want Koko signed by Boston to get the kid some money in his pocket from the SB. I can see where they're coming from given the injury he suffered this season - I mean he came over to sow he was committed to the NHL, but he can't play for peanuts because what if he suffered a knee injury or an eye injury that ended his career playing in the OHL? Boston needs to step up and sign him - if they don't than if I was in his shoes I'd advise him to play in KHL as well. Get a nice low to mid 6-figure contract and support your family.

That being said - I'd look to maybe trade Koko to a 2013 contender because he won't be here in 2014 and it seems he's "over the OHL" mentally. IIRC he was in the Kassian lockerroom clique and wonder if he'll carry the same attitude.

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05-25-2012, 09:40 AM
  #216
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As for the questions.

1. Khokhlachev hopefully returns because he only has value to Windsor right now. After his injury at the end of the year and the news that he may stay back in Russia other teams will not be willing to trade for Khokhlachev because there's probably just too many red flags for a team to take a risk on.

2. I don't think Pavelka returns, he was fine for what Windsor was looking for last year but expectations are raised this year. Spits need to make some noise just as people think Khokhlachev should be dealt because he holds no value as being part of a 2014 team the same goes for Pavelka. Maybe you use Niagara's import pick to move they could be bad next year but if Strome and Hamilton return then that import pick won't be as good and doesn't hold much value next year.

3. I would prefer seeing a goalie that has done something in his OHL career. Neither Chartrand or Morrison have done much in the OHL. Windsor would be okay but I think Saginaw would rather hang on to him. The other option is Palazzesse in Kitchener he would cost more but Steve Spott said both goalies deserve to be a #1 and if Gibson returns then Palazzesse becomes expendable. He would be a perfect goalie to play 40 games or so and have DeKort play the other 25+.

4. OA's that start the season probably what you already see on the roster that being said if you don't think they will be with you for the whole season you move them before the season begins and not waste a card on a player you don't see playing the whole year.

5. The whole recruiting thing is interesting I have moved past the idea of really trying to recruit these kids hard. If they don't want to be in Windsor don't waste your time and trade them for picks. Everett wasn't going to get Seth Jones so they traded his negotiating rights to Portland, Jones ended up signing with Portland and Everett got 3 young prospects in return and another 18 year old. That's a good haul for a player that was never going to play for your team and we aren't talking draft picks we are talking players that can come to camp and make a team. If Seiloff is really waiting to see what NHL team drafts him then he can stay at Miami and play there same with Barber. Schmaltz is a pipe dream and then you're only left with his younger brother and Billings. If Schmaltz isn't on board for next year you trade his rights and get some prospects in return of course that can't happen until next offseason.

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05-25-2012, 11:12 AM
  #217
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Originally Posted by hockeylegend11 View Post
Real good response to questions raised,I really doubt Schmaltz reports however,I would be pleased if Spits landed Sieloff and Hagg
Another factor that I failed to address are the OHL Gold Education packages.
If I understand it correctly teams are limited in the # of packages they can use
in a given year.
If as we hope, the Spits bring in some new US born players, how many opennings are there.

In this instance I'm talking about US players.
So a few questions if I may, to help clarify things in my mind.

a) which US born Spits are on Gold education packages.
b) are there different types of educational packages.
c) specifically are the following players on educational packages....
Vail, Czinder, Alonge,Bowen,Johnson,Ebert,Posa and Deeley.

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05-25-2012, 11:52 AM
  #218
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Another factor that I failed to address are the OHL Gold Education packages.
If I understand it correctly teams are limited in the # of packages they can use
in a given year.
If as we hope, the Spits bring in some new US born players, how many opennings are there.

In this instance I'm talking about US players.
So a few questions if I may, to help clarify things in my mind.

a) which US born Spits are on Gold education packages.
b) are there different types of educational packages.
c) specifically are the following players on educational packages....
Vail, Czinder, Alonge,Bowen,Johnson,Ebert,Posa and Deeley.
Some answers to your questions
Teams are allowed to designate 7 gold edc packages and the Spits currently have 6 leaving 1 open
Of the USA born players Ben Johnson is the only non 1st rder who was given one
The others are ist rders including Rychel,Ebert,Bateman,Maletta and HoSang
I am aware that both Ebert and Rychel are USA born but their 1st rd drafted status made their birthplace irrevelant
As for the players u listed only Johnson and Ebert have the gold packages,the others have negotiated deals that may vary from player to play,ie 3years edc for 3 played,or 4 years for 2,or 3 years for 1 or 2,others go for 1/2 year at a time,there are several options that teams employ to get players signed

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05-25-2012, 01:02 PM
  #219
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I think Johnson should have between 25-30 this season and maybe 30-35+ goals in his Third season. If he does come back for an OA season then depending on who he is playing with maybe somewhere close to 45 Goals.

Former Spitfire Justin Shugg won a Kelly Cup with the Florida Everblades in the ECHL. In 11 Playoff Games SHugg had 7 Goals and 5 Assists and was a +7

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05-25-2012, 01:18 PM
  #220
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I had said it once in this thread and I'll repeat it after a the year has past. Ben Johnson is Eric Wellwood 2.0 100% look at the videos of them both in their first years its scary. I think eric had a better team around him his first year but once the core is made around this kid he will be a star.

35-40 Goals max is his output, the one differnet from the two is I think Johnny will be smaller than Eric in the long run but that might also mean JOhnny will be a little faster and a better playmaker. Johnny will be the go-to-guy in OT I beleive when its all set and done.

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05-25-2012, 04:44 PM
  #221
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According to sources on twitter Alexander Khokhlachev will not return the OHL next season and will play in KHL. Unless Boston signs him.

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05-25-2012, 04:46 PM
  #222
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CTV is going to have a report, according to Facebook, at 6pm tonight. Makes me wonder what's going on. I can't see him saying no to the Spitfires or being upset with them.

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05-25-2012, 05:05 PM
  #223
RayzorIsDull
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Originally Posted by NHL Fanatic View Post
According to sources on twitter Alexander Khokhlachev will not return the OHL next season and will play in KHL. Unless Boston signs him.
Still early but if he doesn't return the team takes a huge step back. Look at how this team played without Khokhlachev last year and x68 and people will understand how much he means.

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05-25-2012, 05:33 PM
  #224
hockeylegend11
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
Still early but if he doesn't return the team takes a huge step back. Look at how this team played without Khokhlachev last year and x68 and people will understand how much he means.
While I agree the Spits take a huge hit if Koko stays in Russia
it has little to do with 2013/14 in my view
He was not counted on being here anyways and should the Spits draft and convince 2 high impact euros to play this year,they should have them for 2013/14 as well
As I have projected before I expect HoSang to make an immediate impact,the addition of 2 euros and expected improvement of everybody returning,the drop off may not be the doomsday some think
Can Windsor be in the top 3 probably not but 4,5 or 6 is not unrealistic
Alot to be determined before we all can predict what may happen

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05-25-2012, 05:58 PM
  #225
RayzorIsDull
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Originally Posted by hockeylegend11 View Post
While I agree the Spits take a huge hit if Koko stays in Russia
it has little to do with 2013/14 in my view
He was not counted on being here anyways and should the Spits draft and convince 2 high impact euros to play this year,they should have them for 2013/14 as well
As I have projected before I expect HoSang to make an immediate impact,the addition of 2 euros and expected improvement of everybody returning,the drop off may not be the doomsday some think
Can Windsor be in the top 3 probably not but 4,5 or 6 is not unrealistic
Alot to be determined before we all can predict what may happen
No but if you believe it has an impact on the type of team they put on the ice this year and that impacts the type of bid you make then yes it could have an impact. For instance Spits will need to know in about a month for Khokhlachev you either know he's coming back or cut bait. This is where it gets difficult and the problem is two fold.

1. You won't get any assets in return for Khokhlachev which could have helped in the present and going forward.

2. If you want to bulk up and get 2 top tier imports then you're going to have to use assets to certainly move up possibly costing picks, players (Clarke, Bateman).

I still think if you're talking about a 6th seed or 8th seed it will make things very difficult to spin as being a top contender in the league the next year. You can talk about having players on paper but you do need the results on the ice otherwise they just look like another average team.

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