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Your Young Future Top Defenseman To Philly

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Old
05-02-2012, 02:57 PM
  #51
Viqsi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
You don't draft by need when you have a #2 pick in the draft.
Which would be why I mentioned Galchenyuk.

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Old
05-02-2012, 03:17 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exporta View Post
Both fanbases may not like this, but Gardiner is on the table if I have a shot at Couturier or possibly Schenn.
I really doubt Burke thinks like you do about that.

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Old
05-02-2012, 03:57 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
He said future potential top defenseman, not a current top defenseman.

Someone like Bogosian, Kulikov, Gudbranson, etc., not Pietrangelo, Doughty, etc.

(I don't think Gardiner is in either class, and when I read posts suggesting he's a sure-fire future 1D, I can't help but remember the extraordinary predictions regarding Luke Schenn, who I like as a player, but whose ceiling seems more like Braydon Coburn).

Can the Flyers get one of them with just JVR? I don't know. Maybe for some, probably not for others. Florida would seem an interesting potential partner, but there are other threads on that.
Why...cause he's a Leaf? He lead rookie D-men in alot of areas this season. I find it hard to understand how Kulikov or Gudbranson are immediate sure fire but not Gardiner.

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Old
05-02-2012, 04:09 PM
  #54
Jack de la Hoya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Why...cause he's a Leaf? He lead rookie D-men in alot of areas this season. I find it hard to understand how Kulikov or Gudbranson are immediate sure fire but not Gardiner.
Why would his team have anything to do with it?

I never said that either Kulikov or Gudbranson are "sure-fire" 1Ds, but I think that both are better positioned to develop into that (or something close to that) than Gardiner.

I like Gardiner--I just think he's more likely to top-out as a good second pairing defenseman on a playoff caliber team. I'm not completely sold on his ability to shut down an opposing team's top line, which is an important part of the "1D" package, IMO.

On the flip-side, Gudbranson is well-positioned to contribute at a high level at both ends of the ice, while also bringing superior physicality, etc.

Kulikov is the most rounded of the three, but perhaps doesn't have elite potential at either end of the ice. He might be the least likely to reach "franchise cornerstone" status, but the safest bet to play top-pairing minutes for the next decade.

If Gudbranson never develops an elite offensive game, he's Braydon Coburn. If Gardiner never develops a superior defensive game, he's Matt Carle (albiet with a better shot). Ask Flyers fans who is more valuable.


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Old
05-02-2012, 05:39 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stache of Shea Weber View Post
JVR for Ryan Ellis, or Jonathan Blum and a B-level prospect

Fair value-wise? JVR has had some consistency/injury issues, but when he's on he's an absolute beast. Ryan Ellis will for sure be a top-4 defense, has the poise and awareness of a veteran. Kimmo Timonen with a bomb is his ceiling and Ellis is our top prospect.
Also, would trading JVR alienate potential free agents/current players from signing long-term deals with the Flyers? James seemed ecstatic to sign this deal a year ago. I think it would rub a lot of players the wrong way seeing Richards, Carter, and JVR being shipped out after commiting to the franchise.
I think JVR has a bit more value than this does. PHI does have a couple of bigger dmen. What would the other prospect that NAS adds.

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Old
05-02-2012, 06:22 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Couturioux View Post
No, we could easily pull a deal for someone like Bogosian using just JVR, our 1st and Bob. Just because the OP listed 4 untouchables doesn't mean that we don't have enough talent to deal. I am inclined to agree with his untouchables, none of our centers will be dealt. Holmgren is pretty adamant about having excellent center depth, and Couturier and Schenn have yet to show us a reason not to believe in them. Also, I highly doubt Simmonds is traded...he is exactly what Holmgren wanted, a young version of Hartnell.

If we do trade for a D this summer, Voracek or JVR will prob be the odd man out. Personally, I think Voracek is the one to stay, but he's also a pending RFA, while JVR is signed. It is a tough decision that Holmgren will have to make, but hopefully he just signs Suter and its done. We also have Read who can be a piece.


Absolutely not. The JETS are not looking for a goalie and your 1st could very well be 30th overall so basically it is like a 2nd rounder. So then it boils down to Van Riemsdyk and no way are the JETS taking him straight up.

Honestly don't think I'd move Bogosian for anything short of massive overpayment. It would take a deal like Couturier, Simmonds and a 1st in 2013 for Bogosian and Cormier for me to even think about it.

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Old
05-02-2012, 06:42 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Crazy8oooo View Post
A future top defensemen would likely mean that you would also have to give up a future top player...your list of untouchables makes it less likely that other teams would be willing to engage in discussions.
Simple as this.

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Old
05-02-2012, 06:45 PM
  #58
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The one young Defenseman I would love the Flyers to try to get would be Gudbranson. Florida fans reluctantly though don't want him moved, and I don't blame them

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Old
05-02-2012, 07:06 PM
  #59
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Can Couturier just transition to being a full-time defenseman? He's good enough defensively, and he seems to like his slapshot more than his wrist shot. Just saying.

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Old
05-02-2012, 07:40 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Couturioux View Post
No, we picked up a Schenn-type defender in Grossman for a 2nd, and we already have Coburn. He is not what we need now. We need a TOP pairing defender, one who can do everything.
you aren't getting a TOP pairing defender for Simmonds or ANY of the other players on the flyers save the ones you left off. essentially a TOP pairing young dman has arguably the most value in the NHL outside an elite center. FACT

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Old
05-02-2012, 08:01 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by CHill Seeker View Post
you aren't getting a TOP pairing defender for Simmonds or ANY of the other players on the flyers save the ones you left off. essentially a TOP pairing young dman has arguably the most value in the NHL outside an elite center. FACT
Completely agree. FACT

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Old
05-02-2012, 08:13 PM
  #62
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Somebody mentioned Greenie here... Green for Couturier.

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Old
05-02-2012, 08:21 PM
  #63
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i don't want to trade simmonds,JVR cuz when Jagr retires we will be stuck if we deal both our current lines go like this:
Jagr-Giroux-Hartnell
Simmonds-Schenn-Briere
Talbot-Coutourier-Voracek(interchange with simmonds)
JVR-READ-WELLWOOD

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Old
05-02-2012, 08:26 PM
  #64
Bryzard of Oz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fedfed View Post
Somebody mentioned Greenie here... Green for Couturier.
Green's value has plummeted this year, there is no way he nets the caps Couturier. Even if it hadn't, do not want

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Old
05-02-2012, 08:28 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHill Seeker View Post
you aren't getting a TOP pairing defender for Simmonds or ANY of the other players on the flyers save the ones you left off. essentially a TOP pairing young dman has arguably the most value in the NHL outside an elite center. FACT
Correct. You are not getting a top pairing young dmen in the NHL. However, prospects are a different story. Dmen not in the NHL have less value than established players no matter what these boards say. That is why Rundblad, who was ranked as one of the best prospects, had to be packaged with a 2nd rd pick to get Turris who had minimal success at that point. That trade would have been laughed off these boards if someone posted it last summer.

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Old
05-02-2012, 08:54 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fedfed View Post
Somebody mentioned Greenie here... Green for Couturier.
Almost as unrealistic as the Flyers getting an established #1 DMan for Simmonds/Read/1st.

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Old
05-02-2012, 09:09 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by NitHeel View Post
Almost as unrealistic as the Flyers getting an established #1 DMan for Simmonds/Read/1st.
What'd you give for Green?

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Old
05-02-2012, 09:14 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by fedfed View Post
What'd you give for Green?
Considering what contract he's going to sign for, I'm not interested in him at all.

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Old
05-02-2012, 09:45 PM
  #69
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Gunnarson,3rd for Simmonds

Macarthur,Reimer,Franson,2nd,2nd 2013 for Luongo

Colbrone,Holzer,D'Amigo,Kulemin,Bozak for Zajack

DUMP-L.A.C.K

Draft-

EDM-Nail Yakupov
CLB-Michael Grigorenko
MTL-Alex Galchenyuk
NYI-Filip Forseberg
TML-Ryan Murray

Sign-Stoll 2 years 7 million
Sign-Schultz 3 years 9 million
Sign-Tootoo 2 years 4 million
Sign-Harding 2 years 6.4 million

Lupul-Zajack-Kessel
Simmonds-Grabo-Kadri
Tootoo-Stoll-Ashton/Frattin
Brown-Steckel-Crabb

Phaneuf-Murray
Schenn-Gardiner
Schultz-Liles

Luongo
Harding

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Old
05-02-2012, 09:57 PM
  #70
LordClaudeAlmighty28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O4GM View Post
Gunnarson,3rd for Simmonds

Macarthur,Reimer,Franson,2nd,2nd 2013 for Luongo

Colbrone,Holzer,D'Amigo,Kulemin,Bozak for Zajack

DUMP-L.A.C.K

Draft-

EDM-Nail Yakupov
CLB-Michael Grigorenko
MTL-Alex Galchenyuk
NYI-Filip Forseberg
TML-Ryan Murray

Sign-Stoll 2 years 7 million
Sign-Schultz 3 years 9 million
Sign-Tootoo 2 years 4 million
Sign-Harding 2 years 6.4 million

Lupul-Zajack-Kessel
Simmonds-Grabo-Kadri
Tootoo-Stoll-Ashton/Frattin
Brown-Steckel-Crabb

Phaneuf-Murray
Schenn-Gardiner
Schultz-Liles

Luongo
Harding
You might be in the wrong thread, buddy.

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Old
05-02-2012, 10:26 PM
  #71
Bryzard of Oz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O4GM View Post
Gunnarson,3rd for Simmonds

Macarthur,Reimer,Franson,2nd,2nd 2013 for Luongo

Colbrone,Holzer,D'Amigo,Kulemin,Bozak for Zajack
A trifecta of nos.

Well done

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Old
05-02-2012, 10:46 PM
  #72
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what would Philly want for Simmonds and Read package.

obviously the untouchables are: 5th overall, Kessel, Lupul, Gardiner, Phanuef (not by me but Burke wouldn't do it)

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Old
05-02-2012, 11:01 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Couturioux View Post
No, we could easily pull a deal for someone like Bogosian using just JVR, our 1st and Bob. Just because the OP listed 4 untouchables doesn't mean that we don't have enough talent to deal. I am inclined to agree with his untouchables, none of our centers will be dealt. Holmgren is pretty adamant about having excellent center depth, and Couturier and Schenn have yet to show us a reason not to believe in them. Also, I highly doubt Simmonds is traded...he is exactly what Holmgren wanted, a young version of Hartnell.

If we do trade for a D this summer, Voracek or JVR will prob be the odd man out. Personally, I think Voracek is the one to stay, but he's also a pending RFA, while JVR is signed. It is a tough decision that Holmgren will have to make, but hopefully he just signs Suter and its done. We also have Read who can be a piece.
As a few others have mentioned there is no way you get Bogosian for that offer. Getting a future # 1 D for spare parts or pieces you can do without is every teams dream. Not going to happen.

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Old
05-02-2012, 11:02 PM
  #74
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Nearly all of these deals are just aweful for the Flyers.

This is one that was proposed in a Caps thread so I'll throw it back out there (and yes Flyers fans are going to hate it):

To Wash: Simmonds + Meszaros
To Phil: Mike Green (+ 2nd to even it out??)

I atill really like Green but hey, this is HF & everyone knows that here the only thing that matters is how you have played the last 2 weeks to 6 months.

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Old
05-02-2012, 11:40 PM
  #75
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Bogosian's clearly off the table without stupid overpayment. Like 2 young top-6 forwards and a first round pick type of stupid overpayment.

The Flyers are better served by trying to get a prospect like Runblad, i.e. one not yet established at the NHL level, ideally from a team with depth to spare on defense, or a 5th-10th overall pick in this years draft considering the defensemen that are available in that range.

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