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Dale Tallon, Stan Bowman, Kevin Cheveldayoff, Marc Bergevin which one would you want?

View Poll Results: Who would be your No. 1 choice?
Dale Tallon 38 53.52%
Stan Bowman 19 26.76%
Kevin Cheveldayoff 5 7.04%
Marc Bergevin 9 12.68%
Voters: 71. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-04-2012, 03:34 AM
  #76
Sevanston
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
Wait, is that what we are playing for? I thought the whole idea of having a hockey league was to see who could get the most cap space and accumulate the most 2nd round draft picks.
Don't be daft.

The idea is to build a hockey club for a little bit, then blow up the team and fire all the coaches and management whenever anything goes slightly wrong, or at least once every two years.

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Old
05-04-2012, 05:43 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Rexy View Post
Hossa, Kopecky, Madden Signings - July 1

choice to not resign Havlat, Khabibulan, Phalsson, Walker, Johnson etc. - Before July 1st

Dale Tallon Fired - July 14

I'm not a mathematician but...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexy View Post
also well known that Tallon didn't want to sign Huet. McD likes to make a splash though...

and he wasn't on his way out at that point lmao, if you believe the RFA qualifications were the reason he was fired, perhaps you need to remember when those were declared "late"

(They were due on July 1st)
In other words... take away the bad he did and give him the good decisions he didn't even make.

No Hossa (= no Kopy) --> no Cup

I don't think Huet was McD only. Tallon wanted a new goalie in Huet was the best possible goalie that could be had that year & the next year

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexy View Post
Bowman did what? What move did he do to "round out" the roster to win the cup?

We obviously don't win a cup without Kim Johnsson and Nick Boyntons 3 playoff games, right?
Hossa, Madden, Kopy & got rid of Barker for the Cup Run
extended TKK during the season

not bad for a 1st year guy

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05-04-2012, 07:29 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post

Hossa, Madden, Kopy & got rid of Barker for the Cup Run
extended TKK during the season

not bad for a 1st year guy
again, Tallon was General Manager for the Hossa, Kopex, Madden signings.

Yeah, Stan got rid of Barker during the cup season. We don't win a Stanley cup with Cam Barker instead of Nick Boynton playing 3 games?

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05-04-2012, 08:46 AM
  #79
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Tallon. Guy could identify talent.

Ladd, Versteeg, Sharp, Hossa, Madden, and Signing Keith for absolute peanuts were all huge reasons we won the cup.

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05-04-2012, 09:17 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
In other words... take away the bad he did and give him the good decisions he didn't even make.

No Hossa (= no Kopy) --> no Cup

I don't think Huet was McD only. Tallon wanted a new goalie in Huet was the best possible goalie that could be had that year & the next year



Hossa, Madden, Kopy & got rid of Barker for the Cup Run
extended TKK during the season

not bad for a 1st year guy
If you give Tallon the blame for Huet, you should also give him credit for Hossa.

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Old
05-04-2012, 10:26 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by massivegoonery View Post
If you give Tallon the blame for Huet, you should also give him credit for Hossa.
but if he did that his argument would be flawed!

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05-04-2012, 12:05 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by massivegoonery View Post
If you give Tallon the blame for Huet, you should also give him credit for Hossa.
Tallon wanted Havlat, and Huet, tough to give him credit for Hossa.

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05-04-2012, 12:58 PM
  #83
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Let's look back to the day Bowman was given the job:

Quote:
"There was never a conversation, nor have I ever engaged in a conversation with Scotty Bowman about his son becoming general manager of the Chicago Blackhawks," McDonough volunteered without being asked Tuesday.
Yeah right. And if this was true, then Tallon gets credit for Hossa.

Quote:
A missed deadline due to a paperwork problem cost the Hawks considerably more money to re-sign such free agents as Kris Versteeg and Cam Barker. Hawks chairman Rocky Wirtz downplayed it.

"It cost us some money on the front end but we'd be paying this money eventually," said Wirtz. "I think in the long run, it's actually going to help us, not hurt us."

But it was still costly, still a sign of disorganization and, according to McDonough himself, important enough to cost Tallon his job.

McDonough made it a point several times to say it was an organizational error and that the buck stops with him. Stan Bowman, asked directly if he took responsibility for the error given that his former job as assistant GM included "all CBA-related matters such as contract negotiations, free agency, salary arbitration, player movement and player assignment," dodged it like a pro.
Blowman was just born this way.

Quote:
Several times, McDonough half-jokingly urged his new GM to jump in on some of the tougher questions. But they were better off with McDonough doing most of the talking.
Good luck with that.

Quote:
Asked what Stan Bowman brought to the job, Wirtz was his usual genial, candid self when he replied: "He's 36, Dale's 58. We always want younger people. So what he brings is a system in place to get better. That's something Dale was doing but also, Dale is at the tail end of his business career. I'm at the tail end also. I'm 56. So I want my son and cousins to do better than I am. I hope they're always pushing me and we constantly want to have younger people in the organization. … Stan will be a world-class general manager. Time will tell and we'll show you that."
Lame answer, also, time has shown us nothing, certainly nothing "world-class" about Bowman.

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Old
05-04-2012, 01:14 PM
  #84
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http://*******************/articles/...-under-the-bus

"Going into the offseason, former Blackhawks GM Dale Tallon made it clear to hockey fans that re-signing Martin Havlat was the organization's top priority."

"Havlat talked with TSN about Tallon, John McDonough, and the rest of the Blackhawks organization after Tallon was reassigned. Havlat was quoted saying, "My negotiation with Chicago was not between Dale and my agent; instead, it was between Dale and McDonough. Why? Because McDonough couldn't stand that Dale was so successful and getting the credit for building the Hawks from a last-place team to making the conference final in three short years."

Havlat also told TSN, "McDonough knew long ago he was going to fire Dale. He wanted someone he could claim as his own. He wanted to stand up at that convention and claim credit for signing this guy or that guy."

Tallon also wanted to re-sign Khabibulin for the record.

If Tallon stayed in control of the decision makings we would have had Havlat for somewhere around what he got (6 years, $30 million), Khabibulin for somewhere around what he got (4 years, $15 million). We would have had no Hossa and even more salary to shed that offseason. Bye bye Patrick Sharp.

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05-04-2012, 01:26 PM
  #85
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Nobody is disputing that Tallon wanted Havlat. What is being disputed is that he wanted Huet. If Tallon wanted to resign Khabby, why would he have signed Huet? Makes no sense.

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05-04-2012, 01:27 PM
  #86
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Come on Warrior. Look at the teams that signed those 2 guys. 2 of the least desirable destinations for NHL free agents. Bad teams in terrible winter climates. They both overpaid to lure them in. That's what you have to do when you have a bad team in the frozen tundra. Neither guy would have gotten those contracts in Chicago.

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05-04-2012, 01:31 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
Tallon. Guy could identify talent.

Ladd, Versteeg, Sharp, Hossa, Madden, and Signing Keith for absolute peanuts were all huge reasons we won the cup.
Ladd was a good trade but we gave up a good player in Tuomo Ruutu, who has become a nice player himself to get him making it more of a win-win for both parties involved.

Versteeg and Sharp trades were absolute thievery. I give Tallon all the credit in the world for identifying those guys and pulling off the moves he made to get them. Let's remember though that Philadelphia and Boston fans consider those among of the worst trades in their franchise's histories. It's not sustainable to rely on that kind of trading to keep lasting imo.

Tallon wanted to keep Havlat as I showed in my previous post. So I don't give him credit for Hossa. That was a McDonough signing.

Keith's 4 year- 5.9 million dollar contract (1.475 cap hit) was signed when he was coming off his first year in the NHL. The other 2 years of his ELC were in the AHL. A guy with one year of NHL experience is never going to get a big contract. Will give him credit for having the fortitude to sign him for four years rather than two as you often see with rookies. He also overpaid guys like Byfuglien and Bolland.

I liked Tallon and hope he keeps to win with Florida but let's not deify the guy too much. The Cup was really made possible due to the best forwards being on ELC's. "With the third pick, the Chicago Blackhawks take Jonathan Toews" "With the first pick, the Chicago Blackhawks select Patrick Kane". Those are the reasons Tallon was able to build a Cup Champ here.

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05-04-2012, 02:02 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
http://*******************/articles/...-under-the-bus

"Going into the offseason, former Blackhawks GM Dale Tallon made it clear to hockey fans that re-signing Martin Havlat was the organization's top priority."

"Havlat talked with TSN about Tallon, John McDonough, and the rest of the Blackhawks organization after Tallon was reassigned. Havlat was quoted saying, "My negotiation with Chicago was not between Dale and my agent; instead, it was between Dale and McDonough. Why? Because McDonough couldn't stand that Dale was so successful and getting the credit for building the Hawks from a last-place team to making the conference final in three short years."

Havlat also told TSN, "McDonough knew long ago he was going to fire Dale. He wanted someone he could claim as his own. He wanted to stand up at that convention and claim credit for signing this guy or that guy."

Tallon also wanted to re-sign Khabibulin for the record.

If Tallon stayed in control of the decision makings we would have had Havlat for somewhere around what he got (6 years, $30 million), Khabibulin for somewhere around what he got (4 years, $15 million). We would have had no Hossa and even more salary to shed that offseason. Bye bye Patrick Sharp.
Bye bye Nik Hjalmarsson, you mean.

Anyways, all of your quotes basically prove that McDonough and Bowman are gigantic tools. Any identity that this team had is disappearing bit-by-bit and they'll be back to perennial losers soon enough.

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05-04-2012, 02:07 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by massivegoonery View Post
Bye bye Nik Hjalmarsson, you mean.

Anyways, all of your quotes basically prove that McDonough and Bowman are gigantic tools. Any identity that this team had is disappearing bit-by-bit and they'll be back to perennial losers soon enough.
Hjalmarsson doesn't get offer sheeted if the Hawks don't win the Cup which doesn't happen if the Hawks sign Havlat and don't bring in Hossa.

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05-04-2012, 02:08 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by massivegoonery View Post
Anyways, all of your quotes basically prove that McDonough and Bowman are gigantic tools. Any identity that this team had is disappearing bit-by-bit and they'll be back to perennial losers soon enough.
Havlat quotes are facts? I doubt that... at the time, the guy was probably talking out of his ass because we decided to sign someone better than him.

I will take Havlats words with a grain of salt.

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05-04-2012, 02:09 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Let's look back to the day Bowman was given the job:

Yeah right. And if this was true, then Tallon gets credit for Hossa.
Just because he didn't talk to Scotty Bowman about his son becoming the GM, doesn't mean he didn't talk to Stan himself.

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05-04-2012, 02:23 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
Hjalmarsson doesn't get offer sheeted if the Hawks don't win the Cup which doesn't happen if the Hawks sign Havlat and don't bring in Hossa.
Like Hossa was a big piece of winning the cup. They would have won it easier if they had Havlat instead of Hossa.

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05-04-2012, 02:25 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
Hjalmarsson doesn't get offer sheeted if the Hawks don't win the Cup which doesn't happen if the Hawks sign Havlat and don't bring in Hossa.
Also, if the Hawks don't win the cup, Toews doesn't win the Smythe and the Hawks have the cap space to cover Sharp's raise.

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05-04-2012, 02:45 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by massivegoonery View Post
Also, if the Hawks don't win the cup, Toews doesn't win the Smythe and the Hawks have the cap space to cover Sharp's raise.
Good point. The bonuses murdered us. We likely keep Hammer and Ladd without them, although I know some of them would have happened anyway due to scoring bonuses from the regular season.

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05-04-2012, 03:07 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by massivegoonery View Post
If you give Tallon the blame for Huet, you should also give him credit for Hossa.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexy View Post
but if he did that his argument would be flawed!
lets take a look back to the time where there weren't bandwagoners left and right. Go to the summer of 08. Hawks were on the rise and the money machinery already started to go up. McD wanted Tallon to make some big splashes to get more attention. Sign the best Free Agents and spend some money.
I start with the list of the Top DMen that were available as UFAs
Vishnovsky
Pitkanen
Streit
Campbell
Blake
& Boyle via trade

Tallon was able to overpay big time for Campbell and made him the best offer he could accept. ATL wanted him and offered him more, but not much and he had no reason to go to a non PO team without that future he could find with the Hawks.

He got the best DMan available and made the first splash


Now go and take a look at the forwards.
Via trade, Cammalleri was available but it would have been a bit pricey
Hossa only considered the Wings or Pens - the best teams at that time.
Tanguay and Jokinen made no reason to sign and they took the best offer.

with all the young talent we've had there was no real reason to make the 2nd splash here.


Now we go to the biggest weakness since Thibault had a career year - Goaltender.
Huet, Theodore and C Mason were the only UFAs that could have become the #1 Goalie.
Theo went to the Caps and was overpaid big time. Mason was the worst out of these three.
Huet had 2 good/great seasons for the Habs until he lost his job to Price (with Halak in the minors waiting). He hasn't lost it because of his play, it was because of Price was just better. Then they traded Huet to the Caps as pending UFA and he saved the RS for the Caps with a great run to finish the year. His PO performance wasn't bad either, the problem was the D. Huet played good enough to take them to a 7 game series.

Tallon went out and deceided to make his 2nd big splash on goaltending and he failed.
Right after Tallon signed Huet, he made Khabby available and tried to trade him. It ended with waiving Khabby right before the season started and no team wanted him for free with 1 year left on the contract. Tallon WANTED to sign Huet to upgrade goaltending with McD wanting him to make a big signing. Tallon signed Huet, not McD. McD never told him to sign Campbell or Huet, he told him to make some noise - that's a big difference. After the season ended and Khabby won the job, he wanted to keep him because he realized he made a mistake



compare that to the Havlat-Hossa situation and tell me it's the same and Tallon signed Hoss. Bowman(s), Q and McD (for promotion - it's easier to showcase Hossa and make some money with him than with Havlat) wanted Hossa and it's well known that Tallon wanted to pay and keep his boy Havi. He lost this signing as well as his job.




After reading this, tell me again that Huet was not a Tallon signing...

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05-04-2012, 03:11 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by massivegoonery View Post
Also, if the Hawks don't win the cup, Toews doesn't win the Smythe and the Hawks have the cap space to cover Sharp's raise.
what has this 1.3 bonus to do with Sharp's raise

his contract wasn't up and he was extended 2 years before we've won the cup

Cap Hit 3.9 from 08/09 to 11/12



Toews conn Smyhte was the difference in keeping Ladd/Niemi or in the end Reasoner for sure

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05-04-2012, 03:15 PM
  #97
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I am sure the lack of success under the Bowman regime the coming years will somehow be Tallon's fault as well among the Bowman nuthuggers.

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05-04-2012, 03:22 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by EmeticDonut View Post
I am sure the lack of success under the Bowman regime the coming years will somehow be Tallon's fault as well among the Bowman nuthuggers.
I'm already sick of hearing about the cap crunch. That was a loooong time ago.

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05-04-2012, 03:22 PM
  #99
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who is a Bowman nuthugger here? Nobody defends him, we are all disappointed that we lost in the 1st round two years in a row and have a team of underachievers.

Some just look at the situation with a bit more objectivity than others. Just tell me who would have been a better 1 year singing than Bruno as UFA this offseason. Arnott or Langenbrunner?
We don't even know if he was allowed to sign players for more than 1 year

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05-04-2012, 03:26 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
We don't even know if he was allowed to sign players for more than 1 year
I forget, is four years more than one year?


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