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Dale Tallon, Stan Bowman, Kevin Cheveldayoff, Marc Bergevin which one would you want?

View Poll Results: Who would be your No. 1 choice?
Dale Tallon 38 53.52%
Stan Bowman 19 26.76%
Kevin Cheveldayoff 5 7.04%
Marc Bergevin 9 12.68%
Voters: 71. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-04-2012, 03:32 PM
  #101
Bubba88
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#5 DMen, what was a big hole to fill. Other than that, nothing to say about my posts? Would really like to hear your side of the views since we don't agree

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05-04-2012, 03:33 PM
  #102
coldsteelonice84
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Originally Posted by massivegoonery View Post
I forget, is four years more than one year?

Yeah, to make excuses for Bowman's offseason last year such as Rocky holding him back, etc. is just another way of saying it sucked.

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05-04-2012, 03:34 PM
  #103
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tell me what 2nd line center was available to sign longterm... I'll wait for the list

I made one already, see below



.

nothing, that's it

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05-04-2012, 03:37 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
tell me what 2nd line center was available to sign longterm... I'll wait for the list

I made one already, see below



.

nothing, that's it
We don't know what was out there trade wise but we know he punted on Cervenka. Jokinen will be out there. Will we sign him? What do you think? What do you think Bowman is going to do about No. 2 C? I think he'll trade Bolland for Roy or something like that and put Kruger as thrid line C and I think that is a lateral move at best.

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05-04-2012, 04:03 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Yeah, to make excuses for Bowman's offseason last year such as Rocky holding him back, etc. is just another way of saying it sucked.
Pretty much. Tallon is the reason we're in this cap mess. Rocky is the reason Bowman won't spend and makes ****** deadline deals. At some point people need to quit making excuses for Bowman and he needs to build this team into a winner again.

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05-04-2012, 04:15 PM
  #106
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Thank god Bowman got rid of Barker when he did.

Getting rid of him during that offseason would have been ridiculously hard. The playoffs would not have made Barker look like a promising young top 4 Offensive Defenseman the way he was playing that year. Minnesota tried to make a big move for the future and made a terrible mistake. I don't think too many teams would have been itching for the Hawks #6 Defenseman when it was known there was a firesale on Hawks Depth.

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05-04-2012, 04:16 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by brtriad View Post
Pretty much. Tallon is the reason we're in this cap mess. Rocky is the reason Bowman won't spend and makes ****** deadline deals. At some point people need to quit making excuses for Bowman and he needs to build this team into a winner again.
Tallon is the reason the 2010 offseason was a rebuilding summer.

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05-04-2012, 04:23 PM
  #108
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You guys can ***** about Bowmans signings all you want, they are still faaaaaarrrr better than the ones Tallon has made over his career. And thats not debatable.

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05-04-2012, 04:33 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
Tallon is the reason the 2010 offseason was a rebuilding summer.
Tallon is also the reason we won a cup. Unless of course it's the great Nick Boynton that put us over the top.

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05-04-2012, 04:39 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by brtriad View Post
Tallon is also the reason we won a cup. Unless of course it's the great Nick Boynton that put us over the top.
There were many reasons for winning the cup. The team being so bad for so long allowed us to take Toews and Kane. Bill Wirtz dying. Also big factors that go beyond Dale Tallon's greatness.

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05-04-2012, 04:45 PM
  #111
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All valid points. The fact still stands that Tallon vastly contributed to a cup win while Bowman has just stocked us with draft picks, prospects, and bad deadline deals. He's got two more years to turn this into a cup winning team. After no one can make anymore excuses for him.

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05-04-2012, 04:45 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
You guys can ***** about Bowmans signings all you want, they are still faaaaaarrrr better than the ones Tallon has made over his career. And thats not debatable.
Andrew Brunette, Fernando Pisani, Marty Turco, Jamal Mayers, Montador, Emery, and Scott versus the multitude of impact players Tallon has brought in both here and in Florida? Seriously?

Every year Tallon has been in charge of a team it's gotten better.

I wish I could say the same for Bowman.

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05-04-2012, 04:59 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
Andrew Brunette, Fernando Pisani, Marty Turco, Jamal Mayers, Montador, Emery, and Scott versus the multitude of impact players Tallon has brought in both here and in Florida? Seriously?

Every year Tallon has been in charge of a team it's gotten better.

I wish I could say the same for Bowman.
You'll say different when Florida is in cap hell in the next 3 years and Tallon doesn't know what to do.

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05-04-2012, 05:05 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBSeabs27 View Post
You'll say different when Florida is in cap hell in the next 3 years and Tallon doesn't know what to do.
Until that's actually happened, haters are grasping at straws and future possible scenario's involving a GM that's proven he's a capable trader.

Will take a cup in hand over anything else any of our GM's have given us.


Last edited by DisgruntledHawkFan: 05-04-2012 at 05:54 PM.
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Old
05-04-2012, 05:44 PM
  #115
Ace Rothstein
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Originally Posted by BBSeabs27 View Post
You'll say different when Florida is in cap hell in the next 3 years and Tallon doesn't know what to do.
The Hawks were in cap hell because of the Campbell signing, a slight overpayment to Bolland and half the team getting major raises over a 2 year period. So you had 2 options after '07-08.

1. Don't sign Brian Campbell as you have a lot of raises due in the next 2 years. Do the Hawks win the cup without Campbell? Are they still able to afford all of Ladd, Niemi, Versteeg and Buff if Campbell wasn't signed? Maybe for 1 season but all of those guys are making MUCH more than they were 2 years ago.
2. Sign Brian Campbell, go for it all over a 2 season stretch. Win a Cup, deal with the cap problems later.

The truth is, Tallon was never given the chance to fix the cap issues after 2010 for some reason. McDonough wanted a yes man and got him in Stan Bowman.

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05-04-2012, 06:14 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
Andrew Brunette, Fernando Pisani, Marty Turco, Jamal Mayers, Montador, Emery, and Scott versus the multitude of impact players Tallon has brought in both here and in Florida? Seriously?

Every year Tallon has been in charge of a team it's gotten better.

I wish I could say the same for Bowman.
All of those deals, aside from Monty were 1 year deals..and half of them happened because we were in cap hell from Tallons crappy signings.

Let's see..

Campbell 7+mil for 8 years
Huet 5+ mil for 4 years
Upshall 3.5mil for 4 years
Kopecky 3mil for 4 years
Bergenheim 2.75mil for 4 years
Traded for Campbell (lol)
Jovanovski 4.125mil for 4 years (+35 contract)

I'll take the 1 year deals over all that crap, seriously.

Fwiw, Bowmans team improved over last years cap hell team caused by Tallon.

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05-04-2012, 06:28 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by brtriad View Post
All valid points. The fact still stands that Tallon vastly contributed to a cup win while Bowman has just stocked us with draft picks, prospects, and bad deadline deals. He's got two more years to turn this into a cup winning team. After no one can make anymore excuses for him.
Tallon was handed great propspects from Mike Smith, and got 2 franchise players because the team was awful. Bowman had to deal with cap hell from Tallon so he went out and stacked our farm so we could get back the depth in a couple years since Tallons horrible signings made us gut the team.

Bad deadline deals? What, one? Even that one (Oduya) is questionable because he really helped turn the end of the season around. (yes, he was bad in the playoffs, just like most of the team)

The other 2 deals were trading Skille for Frolik and Salak and Barker for Leddy plus Kim Johnsson.

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05-04-2012, 06:45 PM
  #118
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lets take a look back to the time where there weren't bandwagoners left and right. Go to the summer of 08. Hawks were on the rise and the money machinery already started to go up. McD wanted Tallon to make some big splashes to get more attention. Sign the best Free Agents and spend some money.
I start with the list of the Top DMen that were available as UFAs
Vishnovsky
Pitkanen
Streit
Campbell
Blake
& Boyle via trade

Tallon was able to overpay big time for Campbell and made him the best offer he could accept. ATL wanted him and offered him more, but not much and he had no reason to go to a non PO team without that future he could find with the Hawks.

He got the best DMan available and made the first splash


Now go and take a look at the forwards.
Via trade, Cammalleri was available but it would have been a bit pricey
Hossa only considered the Wings or Pens - the best teams at that time.
Tanguay and Jokinen made no reason to sign and they took the best offer.

with all the young talent we've had there was no real reason to make the 2nd splash here.


Now we go to the biggest weakness since Thibault had a career year - Goaltender.
Huet, Theodore and C Mason were the only UFAs that could have become the #1 Goalie.
Theo went to the Caps and was overpaid big time. Mason was the worst out of these three.
Huet had 2 good/great seasons for the Habs until he lost his job to Price (with Halak in the minors waiting). He hasn't lost it because of his play, it was because of Price was just better. Then they traded Huet to the Caps as pending UFA and he saved the RS for the Caps with a great run to finish the year. His PO performance wasn't bad either, the problem was the D. Huet played good enough to take them to a 7 game series.

Tallon went out and deceided to make his 2nd big splash on goaltending and he failed.
Right after Tallon signed Huet, he made Khabby available and tried to trade him. It ended with waiving Khabby right before the season started and no team wanted him for free with 1 year left on the contract. Tallon WANTED to sign Huet to upgrade goaltending with McD wanting him to make a big signing. Tallon signed Huet, not McD. McD never told him to sign Campbell or Huet, he told him to make some noise - that's a big difference. After the season ended and Khabby won the job, he wanted to keep him because he realized he made a mistake



compare that to the Havlat-Hossa situation and tell me it's the same and Tallon signed Hoss. Bowman(s), Q and McD (for promotion - it's easier to showcase Hossa and make some money with him than with Havlat) wanted Hossa and it's well known that Tallon wanted to pay and keep his boy Havi. He lost this signing as well as his job.




After reading this, tell me again that Huet was not a Tallon signing...
Huet was not a Tallon signing lol. He wanted Khabibulan.

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05-04-2012, 06:46 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
You guys can ***** about Bowmans signings all you want, they are still faaaaaarrrr better than the ones Tallon has made over his career. And thats not debatable.
It's night and day man. For the first two years of Tallon's tenure he had to drastically overpay to get people to come to the team. Nobody wanted to play for Chicago.

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05-04-2012, 06:50 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
There were many reasons for winning the cup. The team being so bad for so long allowed us to take Toews and Kane. Bill Wirtz dying. Also big factors that go beyond Dale Tallon's greatness.
How do you figure? In the last Wirtz years he showed he was willing to open the wallet.
Being bad and allowing us to take Kane and Toews, no argument there, but do you remember those drafts? Neither were consensus picks. I can't describe how happy I am that Dale picked Toews and Kane, because he could have picked Kessel and Turris.

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05-04-2012, 06:59 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
All of those deals, aside from Monty were 1 year deals..and half of them happened because we were in cap hell from Tallons crappy signings.

Let's see..

Campbell 7+mil for 8 years
Huet 5+ mil for 4 years
Upshall 3.5mil for 4 years
Kopecky 3mil for 4 years
Bergenheim 2.75mil for 4 years
Traded for Campbell (lol)
Jovanovski 4.125mil for 4 years (+35 contract)

I'll take the 1 year deals over all that crap, seriously.

Fwiw, Bowmans team improved over last years cap hell team caused by Tallon.
And I'll take a cup over Bowman's first round exits.

Bell - Arnason - Calder
Bourque - Ruutu - Lapointe

was our top six when Tallon took over.

We've come a hell of a long way.

And it's hard for a team with nearly nine million in cap space - the Panthers - to be in cap hell anytime soon.

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05-04-2012, 07:01 PM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexy View Post
How do you figure? In the last Wirtz years he showed he was willing to open the wallet.
Being bad and allowing us to take Kane and Toews, no argument there, but do you remember those drafts? Neither were consensus picks. I can't describe how happy I am that Dale picked Toews and Kane, because he could have picked Kessel and Turris.
Toews was far from a slam dunk pick. Kessel was wanted by quite a few, and our pick was considered "safe".

Kane was the consensus #1, with a few questions lingering because of his size.

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05-04-2012, 07:07 PM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Tallon was handed great propspects from Mike Smith, and got 2 franchise players because the team was awful. Bowman had to deal with cap hell from Tallon so he went out and stacked our farm so we could get back the depth in a couple years since Tallons horrible signings made us gut the team.

Bad deadline deals? What, one? Even that one (Oduya) is questionable because he really helped turn the end of the season around. (yes, he was bad in the playoffs, just like most of the team)

The other 2 deals were trading Skille for Frolik and Salak and Barker for Leddy plus Kim Johnsson.
Tallon did inherit a few good players from Smith. He continued to develop those players, added more players around them, and made this team into a cup winner. As DHF said, Tallon has only made teams better wherever he has went. Bowman has inherited a roster better than what Tallon had, and this team has regressed. As I said, he deserves two more years before the Fire Bowman movement has reasonable grounds.

And not another Bowman apologist argument: The Toews and Kane 'gimme' picks. Plain and simple, there are no gimme picks. Toews and Kane are here because Tallon drafted them.

Bad deadline deals were Campoli and Oduya. Both overpayment because they didn't help us win and they don't fit in long term. If you're going to make a move, make it worthwhile and what you give up is insignificant. 0/2 on deadline deals isn't a good ratio.

Other two deals were completed well before the deadline. Skille for Frolik and Salak is looking like a wash at this point. They're all just happy to pick up paychecks.

Leddy trade was absolutely robbery. That's the best move Bowman has made since he's been here.

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05-04-2012, 07:11 PM
  #124
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Leddy is certainly a feather in Bowman's cap. The fact that his second best acquisition is Jamal Mayers is damning with very feint praise.

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05-04-2012, 08:27 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
Toews was far from a slam dunk pick. Kessel was wanted by quite a few, and our pick was considered "safe".

Kane was the consensus #1, with a few questions lingering because of his size.
Ignoring the Skille feud I see. Kessel was never an option for Hawks because of it (Those 2 cant coexist)

Toews was gonna be the pick no matter what when he fell and Hawks weren't passing up the American with personality in Kane at #1 ,, Hawks desperately needed a face to sell to fans and that was Kane

Quote:
Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
Leddy is certainly a feather in Bowman's cap. The fact that his second best acquisition is Jamal Mayers is damning with very feint praise.
Jimmy Hayes (Acquired in trade with Leafs)
1st rounder for Troy Brouwer
Dumping Campbell contract

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