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Offseason Discussion Part III (Contract/FA chart in post #1)

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Old
05-10-2012, 06:39 PM
  #326
Flat Stanley
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
Anyone mention in here or anywhere else that Michalek underwent successful hip surgery yesterday?
Yeah, it's in the injury thread.

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05-10-2012, 06:51 PM
  #327
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Sill could be what Adams was before he started slowing down, I think. He brings the same type of things, with the added bonus of being a pretty good fighter.
Sill is definitely a role player. I watched him in junior. Always skating, never taking a shift off. However, I'm not sure how much he has developed. If he's improved since last fall, then I see him slotted on the 4th line. Basically Vitale 2.0.

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05-10-2012, 08:02 PM
  #328
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I'm not sure if anyone saw this in Eliotte Friedman's 30 Thoughts column:

Quote:
15. Colorado didn't create a market for Chris Stewart before trading him to St. Louis, and teams were disappointed they didn't get a chance at a strong, right-shooting scorer. Not long after the deal, I asked a member of the organization about letting him go. All he said was, "We have our reasons." That was it. No further explanation, no shot at his character. Just that.

16. Thought of that conversation when Stewart was a healthy scratch for the second time in the playoffs, Game 2 against Los Angeles. As the Blues packed up, he told NHL.com's Lou Korac, "This is probably the biggest summer of my career." Yes, it is, if he wants to prove the Avalanche wrong.
That quote from Colorado sounds pretty ominous.

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05-10-2012, 08:58 PM
  #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Left Of The Dial View Post
I'm not sure if anyone saw this in Eliotte Friedman's 30 Thoughts column:



That quote from Colorado sounds pretty ominous.
Ouch. Luckily, St.Louis got Shattenkirk out of the deal so it wasn't a total waste.

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05-10-2012, 09:53 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by Left Of The Dial View Post
I'm not sure if anyone saw this in Eliotte Friedman's 30 Thoughts column:



That quote from Colorado sounds pretty ominous.
Hope Shero at least throws his hat in on that. I hated it when Horton got traded for essentially a late 1st, 2nd, & 3rd. I would have gave that up for Horton pre-concussion.

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05-10-2012, 10:23 PM
  #331
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Hope Shero at least throws his hat in on that. I hated it when Horton got traded for essentially a late 1st, 2nd, & 3rd. I would have gave that up for Horton pre-concussion.
Yep. Stewart has ridiculous upside. I'd bet DB can give him the confidence coupled with the system that he needs to succeed.

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05-10-2012, 11:23 PM
  #332
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If we're targeting a winger, I'd rather have Setoguchi than Stewart.


Setoguchi brings much more speed, and would fit in perfectly with our system. We have a good relationship with the GM in Minny, and they need defense, so I think there is a deal to be done there, although it would not be cheap to acquire him.

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05-10-2012, 11:31 PM
  #333
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If we're targeting a winger, I'd rather have Setoguchi than Stewart.


Setoguchi brings much more speed, and would fit in perfectly with our system. We have a good relationship with the GM in Minny, and they need defense, so I think there is a deal to be done there, although it would not be cheap to acquire him.
Unless it's in a deal for Staal, we ain't getting Seto. They have no reason to move him.

Stewart on the other hand, is a case where the GM is waiting for the right return. He had little to do with their success this year and with their salary cap structure, the money he's due isn't very appealing.

If I'm Shero and I'm trying to find a RHS big potential goal scorer on the cheap, I'm paying attention to the Blues this offseason. Especially if they're willing to take on some salary with new owership.

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05-11-2012, 08:50 AM
  #334
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Unless it's in a deal for Staal, we ain't getting Seto. They have no reason to move him.

Stewart on the other hand, is a case where the GM is waiting for the right return. He had little to do with their success this year and with their salary cap structure, the money he's due isn't very appealing.

If I'm Shero and I'm trying to find a RHS big potential goal scorer on the cheap, I'm paying attention to the Blues this offseason. Especially if they're willing to take on some salary with new owership.
I think that money will be for all of their other RFA's, not a guy like Martin.

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05-11-2012, 08:59 AM
  #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
If we're targeting a winger, I'd rather have Setoguchi than Stewart.


Setoguchi brings much more speed, and would fit in perfectly with our system. We have a good relationship with the GM in Minny, and they need defense, so I think there is a deal to be done there, although it would not be cheap to acquire him.
Yep - right handed shot too, which would come in handy on a team loaded with leftys.

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05-11-2012, 09:09 AM
  #336
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Yep - right handed shot too, which would come in handy on a team loaded with leftys.
Stewart is a right handed shot.

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05-11-2012, 11:15 AM
  #337
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Given Minny's struggles to score this season and the fact they they don't have anybody to replace Seto should they trade him, I think that it's very unlikely that they'll move him this summer.

STL has Tarasenko & Schwartz waiting in the wings, ready to fill-in for Stewart, should he get traded.

I too prefer Seto but it doesn't like like hell be available like Stewart will.

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05-11-2012, 11:25 AM
  #338
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I would actually prefer Stewart over Setoguchi.

Stewart is a big RW with a RH shot, before this season he had back to back 28 goal seasons.

He would be a good addition to the Pens, fills a bigger need than Setoguchi because Stewart can also hit, create space, etc.

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Old
05-11-2012, 11:28 AM
  #339
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Evgeni Malkin for:
David Backes
Vladimir Tarasenko
Kevin Shattenkirk
Draft pick

Jordan Staal and Paul Martin for:
Brandon Sutter
8th overall
2013 first round pick

Package the 8th overall with Bennett to get the 5th overall from Toronto (or higher pick)
Draft Filip Forsberg

Sign Zach Parise

Neal - Crosby - Parise
Kunitz - Backes - Tarasenko
Kennedy - Sutter - Dupuis
Cooke - Vitale - Tangradi
Adams, Forsberg replaces Kennedy eventually, trade TFK at that time.

Letang - Orpik
Shattenkirk - Michalek
Despres - Engo
Niskanen

MAF
Backup


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Old
05-11-2012, 11:41 AM
  #340
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Originally Posted by SprootsMasterFlex View Post
Given Minny's struggles to score this season and the fact they they don't have anybody to replace Seto should they trade him, I think that it's very unlikely that they'll move him this summer.

STL has Tarasenko & Schwartz waiting in the wings, ready to fill-in for Stewart, should he get traded.

I too prefer Seto but it doesn't like like hell be available like Stewart will.
Yep Stewart is expendable to Stl in a big way and Seto is just the opposite. As much as the STL fans don't like it they need a left PMD and we have Martin, who as bad as he has been this year has a great track record and did much better in a system like the Blues play. Or Orpik if they want to go that route.

I know people ***** about Martin's price tag, but subtracting what Stewart will make and what whichever D martin pushes out of a job will only cost Stl about an extra $500,000 in cap space

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05-11-2012, 11:50 AM
  #341
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They're not going to find a better defensive D-man with Martin's decade long track record in free agency, especially not for much cheaper. And they won't be able to swap Stewart for that answer at LD either. If their ownership group is serious about making them a contender, it'll be interesting what goes down.

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Old
05-11-2012, 12:00 PM
  #342
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
They're not going to find a better defensive D-man with Martin's decade long track record in free agency, especially not for much cheaper. And they won't be able to swap Stewart for that answer at LD either. If their ownership group is serious about making them a contender, it'll be interesting what goes down.
The blues need an overhaul and it starts with paul Martin? Neither of these things make sense to me. FYI I think they've proven they wanna win. How many moves do u want them to make?

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05-11-2012, 12:09 PM
  #343
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
The blues need an overhaul and it starts with paul Martin? Neither of these things make sense to me. FYI I think they've proven they wanna win. How many moves do u want them to make?
The answer for them isn't Paul Martin but he is the type of defenseman that would play well under Hitchcock, he's a top 4, left handed PMD that fills a need for them. Stewart doesn't fit in with Hitchcock's system and they have Tarasenko and Schwartz waiting.

It's a trade that addresses both teams' needs, like the Goligoski-Neal trade. They have wingers ready for the NHL with a young top 6 guy that doesn't play well under their current coach.

We have defensive depth, they need a left handed PMD like Martin, we have him and we have Despres and Morrow waiting.

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Old
05-11-2012, 12:10 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
The blues need an overhaul and it starts with paul Martin? Neither of these things make sense to me. FYI I think they've proven they wanna win. How many moves do u want them to make?
They don't need an overhaul. But they do need to address at least one of their issues. A top pairing LHD and top line center. One of those will need to be done on the cheap in assets to maintain their core.

Unless they can snag Garrison, who's very unproven, or Suter, who's a pipedream, they won't find a cheaper way to get a big minute defenseman for the left side. 5 mil is just about the going rate for that role moving forward. It's not a sexy deal, but it may come to that for them.

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05-11-2012, 12:24 PM
  #345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosberry87 View Post
Evgeni Malkin for:
David Backes
Vladimir Tarasenko
Kevin Shattenkirk
Draft pick

Jordan Staal and Paul Martin for:
Brandon Sutter
8th overall
2013 first round pick

Package the 8th overall with Bennett to get the 5th overall from Toronto (or higher pick)
Draft Filip Forsberg

Sign Zach Parise

Neal - Crosby - Parise
Kunitz - Backes - Tarasenko
Kennedy - Sutter - Dupuis
Cooke - Vitale - Tangradi
Adams, Forsberg replaces Kennedy eventually, trade TFK at that time.

Letang - Orpik
Shattenkirk - Michalek
Despres - Engo
Niskanen

MAF
Backup

I know you are joking, but that lineup is worse than what we have now by a fair amount.

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Old
05-11-2012, 12:50 PM
  #346
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I hope Sutter resigns with Nashville because I can see Philly making a good run at him. Especially if Timonen retires.
That would be a travesty. I don't want to think about that possibility but it is a very real one IMO.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Left Of The Dial View Post
I'm not sure if anyone saw this in Eliotte Friedman's 30 Thoughts column:

That quote from Colorado sounds pretty ominous.
IMO this season has proven that Stewart is a head-case. The fact that Colorado would not give a more mundane reason like "it wasn't a good fit at the time", or, "we felt he needed a fresh start", combined with getting 4th line minutes this year and being benched at various times, including the playoffs (under Hitchcock)... tells you all you need to know. People are delusional if they think Bylsma is some kind of head-shrinker who can fix guys with bad attitudes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Yep. Stewart has ridiculous upside. I'd bet DB can give him the confidence coupled with the system that he needs to succeed.
His downside is seemingly as big as his upside (see above). I don't know what his actual problem is, but there is clearly a problem and it's resulting in him not performing up to levels where he should be (on decent teams) and even getting denied minutes on account of same. Hitchcock DID use the word "effort" in one of his commentaries on Stewart earlier this year (as to why his minutes were down), which is also a big signal.

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Old
05-11-2012, 01:10 PM
  #347
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As Jiggy said, big guys take time to realize their potential. He had back to back 28 goal seasons and was on pace for 70 pts in both. I think things came easy to him early. Being sent to Hitch's system is just about the worst thing you could do to his game. They don't mix.

I'd take a chance on him. If it costs a 1st+ or similar value in roster player/s, it's worth it IMO. You don't refuse 40 goal potential that easily.

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05-11-2012, 01:32 PM
  #348
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
As Jiggy said, big guys take time to realize their potential. He had back to back 28 goal seasons and was on pace for 70 pts in both. I think things came easy to him early. Being sent to Hitch's system is just about the worst thing you could do to his game. They don't mix.

I'd take a chance on him. If it costs a 1st+ or similar value in roster player/s, it's worth it IMO. You don't refuse 40 goal potential that easily.
I concur that you take the risk . . . Kennedy + Bennett? Enough from STL perspective?

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05-11-2012, 01:44 PM
  #349
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I concur that you take the risk . . . Kennedy + Bennett? Enough from STL perspective?
People on here won't like it, but I remember a pretty solid Blues poster saying 1st+Harrington was the best offer he read on here for Stewart.

That's alot to give up. Especially when Harrington is the best defensive D-man prospect we have. Shero's too conservative to pull the trigger on that IMO. I'm confident that Stewart will find his game here, but as a GM, you can't really deal in hypotheticals. Stewart's value isn't anywhere near that return right now.

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05-11-2012, 01:44 PM
  #350
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As long as the price is right I would take Setoguchi or Stewart. I don't want to lose Morrow, Despres, or Bennett. Tanrgadi, Kuhn, Harrington, or a pick would be fine to bundle a package for them.

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