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Offseason Discussion Part III (Contract/FA chart in post #1)

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Old
05-22-2012, 11:53 PM
  #976
Jacob
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
Especially when some of them have proven they can play very well at the professional level in the AHL for numerous years. It's not like we are talking about throwing in busts into the lineup. These are players with potential that are cheap and could be a big part of this teams future if given a chance. You'll never know if you don't.
Heck, I'd take it even further and say they've already proven they can contribute at the NHL level all be it in smaller sample sizes. And it's a plus that we have several guys to choose from.. So if Strait or Bortuzzo just plain flop, luckily Despres & Morrow are damn good prospects as well.

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05-22-2012, 11:54 PM
  #977
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So you have more hockey knowledge and insight than the 2 best hockey players playing the game today? Because I'm sure that I've read many times, Sid and Geno singing only high praise for the goalie who plays behind them.

Now if Fleury is as bad as you say he is, would those 2 (Crosby and Malkin) really be okay with that? You don't think they would give Shero a little nudge and tell him that they would like him gone, if they truly believed that having Fleury as their goalie would prevent them from winning? Or do they just want him on the team because he's a nice guy?

If the 2 best players in the world like their goalie, and think that he gives them just as good of a chance to win as anyone else...well, let's just say that I'm more inclined to go with their opinion, rather than some random dude's opinion from the internet.

BTW...sorry for insulting your intelligence.
Yeah, it always looks good when your best players throw any of their teammates under the bus.

I'm just about done with the Fleury argument. He really, truly is as bulletproof as any player I've ever seen in my life.

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05-22-2012, 11:55 PM
  #978
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Its about filling Martin's minutes. Niskanen/Despres/Strait/Bortuzzo/Engelland can handle it IMO.
At the very least they can't be any worse than he was this year, and we managed to get 4th in the conference.

While I was watching Bortuzzo in WBS's playoff games, I saw a guy that plays playoff hockey. He's what we need on this team. He's big, doesn't take **** from anybody, and hits people. I'm really pulling for the guy this up coming training camp and preseason. The only concern I have is his skating.

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05-22-2012, 11:56 PM
  #979
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All I get done doing is blaming the defense. Yes I do think better goaltending would have beat the Flyers. There is no way we would have went any further playing defense like that but making some average saves would have went a long way in a series that was any ones to take.

I'm not saying Fleury is a bad goaltender even. I'm saying Thomas is better.
There is absolutely no way the Pens would have won that series with Thomas in net. None.

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05-22-2012, 11:57 PM
  #980
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Heck, I'd take it even further and say they've already proven they can contribute at the NHL level all be it in smaller sample sizes. And it's a plus that we have several guys to choose from.. So if Strait or Bortuzzo just plain flop, luckily Despres & Morrow are damn good prospects as well.
Exactly, and they are still young enough to net you something in return either way if they prove not to fit in here.

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05-23-2012, 12:00 AM
  #981
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I don't want to see Engelland pushed to the #7 slot, but a bottom pairing of Despres/Bortuzzo would be great.

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05-23-2012, 12:03 AM
  #982
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I don't want to see Engelland pushed to the #7 slot, but a bottom pairing of Despres/Bortuzzo would be great.
Engelland isn't irreplaceable as much as I like him and what he brings. He would be a great #7 to have actually.

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05-23-2012, 12:09 AM
  #983
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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
There is absolutely no way the Pens would have won that series with Thomas in net. None.
Why are you arguing over a hypothetical situation that can never be proved? It's the most important position on the ice so you would want the best player in that position no matter his age.

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05-23-2012, 12:16 AM
  #984
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Yea he's an option for next year.....
I thought they were talking about prospects.

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05-23-2012, 12:29 AM
  #985
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Why are you arguing over a hypothetical situation that can never be proved? It's the most important position on the ice so you would want the best player in that position no matter his age.
My point was that the savior that is Tim Thomas wouldn't have made a bit of difference in this series. And you and MTL are acting like MAF didn't make a save in this series and every goal was a softy, which is ********. The defense was terrible giving the Flyers great chances, and the Flyers were making great shots. Most of their shots were off a post and in, breakaways and cross crease passes. It was ridiculous how well they were shooting.

And switching Thomas for MAF this summer would be ****ing retarded. He's 38 and on the decline, but will totally play 65+ games next year then carry the Pens on his back to a Cup.

You MAF bashers need to live in the real world a little bit. Not every goal against is stoppable and the goalies fault and trading your franchise goalie, who's been the team MVP for two seasons, for a 38 year old is a terrible, terrible idea.

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05-23-2012, 12:53 AM
  #986
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Yah - like Ragamuffin says.

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05-23-2012, 01:09 AM
  #987
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I'd take Thomas over Fleury right now and I do think he would have gave us a better chance to win than Fleury did in the Flyers series. Giving up the assets for Thomas and finding a taker for Fleury just to get a couple good years out of Thomas is probably not worth all the work though.

Fleury does deserve criticism. That playoff performance was awful. I don't care what defense was playing in front of him and I'm not giving the D a pass either. I've seen goalies play behind some horrendous defenses though and still perform better than Fleury did.

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05-23-2012, 01:17 AM
  #988
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
I agree, Fleury wasn't the only problem. So let's fix ALL of our problems instead of only some.

Not a big Montoya fan, though. Woefully inconsistent. Plus, he overhandles the puck outside the crease area. We already have 1 goalie we'd like to strap inside the crease and not have him wander aimlessly like a homeless person, we don't need 2.

I think we need to spend more money on goaltending, either by moving Fleury out or bringing in a REAL challenge for his throne.

We have excess salary cap money in 3 defensemen we don't want/need. We should spend some of that on goaltending.

My dream scenario would be...

- Toronto gets a No. 1 this off-season (Luongo, Thomas, Vokoun, other), then we trade one of the veteran Dmen for Reimer. Probably a pipe dream but that's the kind of guy I want if we're keeping Fleury. Someone with upside who we can stick in there for 2-3 weeks if Fleury craps the bed again. AND, someone who could be considered the heir apparent.

Zbynek Michalek for James Reimer? Too good to be true. Brooks Orpik for James Reimer? Burkey probably likes Brooks, so maybe. Paul Martin? Fuhgetaboutit, it'd cost too much from our end to even it out.
Pick another name besides Reimer because that's just not happening. We're not paying $1.8 million for a backup when we're pinching pennies as it is. That's an incredible luxury. We shouldn't have to spend more than $900k on a backup and still get a solid one without having to move pieces for THAT position.

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Old
05-23-2012, 01:23 AM
  #989
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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
My point was that the savior that is Tim Thomas wouldn't have made a bit of difference in this series. And you and MTL are acting like MAF didn't make a save in this series and every goal was a softy, which is ********. The defense was terrible giving the Flyers great chances, and the Flyers were making great shots. Most of their shots were off a post and in, breakaways and cross crease passes. It was ridiculous how well they were shooting.

And switching Thomas for MAF this summer would be ****ing retarded. He's 38 and on the decline, but will totally play 65+ games next year then carry the Pens on his back to a Cup.

You MAF bashers need to live in the real world a little bit. Not every goal against is stoppable and the goalies fault and trading your franchise goalie, who's been the team MVP for two seasons, for a 38 year old is a terrible, terrible idea.
No, MAF lovers need to live in the real world.

Of course Thomas coming here now is a terrible idea considering their age difference, but it's not even about Thomas right now.

Once again, it's this idea that MAF played as well as he could that's thrown out their by his Legion. There's a difference between letting in softies - and Lord knows he had his share - and allowing goals on shots that an elite goalie needs to stop.

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Old
05-23-2012, 01:24 AM
  #990
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Closing at that 1k mark. Let's get a new one started.

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