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Offseason Discussion Part III (Contract/FA chart in post #1)

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05-04-2012, 06:28 PM
  #126
Shrimper
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Originally Posted by Mister Ed View Post
Ship out M&M + Lovejoy, sign Bryan Allen, re-sign Strait, Niskanen, and Bortuzzo, roll into training camp with:

Orpik-Letang
Allen-Bortuzzo
Niskanen-Engelland
(Strait)

+Despres and Morrow for call-ups
You get rid of Orpik before Michalek. That defence is worse than it is now.

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05-04-2012, 08:16 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Hottubber View Post
If Asham wants to re-sign for 700K, there really isnt much downside
Except the eleventy billion and three main board threads about that hypocrite Lemieux re-signing the guy after what he pulled in the playoffs!!!!111!!!1!!!1


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05-04-2012, 08:46 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
Being a healthy scratch doesn't mean a player has fallen out of favor with the team. It just means that player isn't playing well enough to take another guys spot.
He's looked pretty good tonight. I wonder what the reason was that they didn't have him in the lineup. It's not like Nashville is blessed with a ton of offensively talented forwards.

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05-04-2012, 09:42 PM
  #129
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Asham's done.

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05-04-2012, 10:04 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
Asham's done.
I kind of liked Ash but his role here is done.

If Staal is going top 6 or gets traded I'm really hoping the Pens bring in Gaustad. Size, fits that 3rd line C role, scores about 15 goals a year, fights and is a face off beast.

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05-04-2012, 10:55 PM
  #131
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I'm in favor of letting Asham go. Not because of what he did in the playoffs, but because he's just not that useful of a player most of the time. He's a terrific middleweight, but he's not much of a factor physically outside of that. At least, with someone like Travis Moen you're getting PK ability to go along with the other stuff.

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05-04-2012, 10:58 PM
  #132
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I think Shrimper and others would like to see Parise signed. This essentially allows the Pens to trade Staal for a high-end defenseman.

I would love to see Erik Gudbranson on the Pens defense.

This is the make smiles scenerio:

Sign Parise

Trade Staal for Gudbranson and Grimaldi

Orpik, TK and Strait for Stewart and Cole

Parise (6.5) - Crosby (8.7) - Stewart (3.25)
Kunitz (3.75) - Malkin (8.7) - Neal (5)
Cooke (1.8) - Dupuis (1.5) - Tangradi (.9)
Asham (.65) - Vitale (.550) - Jeffrey (.575)

Letang (3.5) - Michalek (4) or Letang (3.5) - Gudbranson (3.2)
Gudbranson (3.2) - Niskanen (2) Suter (6.5) - Niskanen (2)
Cole (1.3) - Engelland (.567) Cole (1.3) - Engelland (.567)
Despres (.840) /Bortuzzo (.6)

Still leaves room to trade Michalek for a decent 3C and to bring in Suter.

Signed... Greedy Pens fan.

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05-04-2012, 11:06 PM
  #133
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Even though the Preds are going down, Suter has shown me he's absolutely incredible in every facet of the game.

Hell, I think he's better than Weber.

Give me that guy. As much as I want Parise or another star winger, Suter makes us an insanely better team. Nobody else on the market is going to improve this team nearly as much.

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05-04-2012, 11:15 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Coach John McGuirk View Post
Even though the Preds are going down, Suter has shown me he's absolutely incredible in every facet of the game.

Hell, I think he's better than Weber.

Give me that guy. As much as I want Parise or another star winger, Suter makes us an insanely better team. Nobody else on the market is going to improve this team nearly as much.
Suter has a super steady game. I just like how Weber pushes people around.

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05-05-2012, 01:12 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Coach John McGuirk View Post
Even though the Preds are going down, Suter has shown me he's absolutely incredible in every facet of the game.

Hell, I think he's better than Weber.

Give me that guy. As much as I want Parise or another star winger, Suter makes us an insanely better team. Nobody else on the market is going to improve this team nearly as much.
In my mind, Suter is the best defenseman in the league. The guy is so damn good at everything he does and he's better than Weber for sure. He's the reason (In my mind at least) that makes Weber look so good.

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05-05-2012, 04:21 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
You get rid of Orpik before Michalek. That defence is worse than it is now.
Look at the defense that kept the Pens at bay in the final game.

It's not the names that matter, it's what works. I think at this point, Niskanen works a hell of a lot better in the line-up than Martin, Michalek and Orpik.


I never thought I would see the day where I would actually say something like that. But the last 3-4 games and then the entire playoffs...that was more and more the case. Most of the season, I was rarely impressed with Michalek, Orpik and Martin anyway. As a defenseman most of my life, I love watching guys in that position do their job very well, Michalek at times is good but his mobility seemed to actually get worse as the season went on and he seemed to put himself in some insanely vulnerable situations for getting knocked out with a brutal injury, kind of like what Letang would do at times but more often. At this point, I don't care for all 3 of those guys. I would rather dump all 3, go after Suter and that's it.

Suter, Letang
Despres, Niskanen
Strait, Engelland

Orpik + Martin + Michalek = 12.75m

I'd be ecstatic if Shero spent half that on Suter for a 5yr term. I wouldn't be angry at that for a second.

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05-05-2012, 04:28 AM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach John McGuirk View Post
Even though the Preds are going down, Suter has shown me he's absolutely incredible in every facet of the game.

Hell, I think he's better than Weber.

Give me that guy. As much as I want Parise or another star winger, Suter makes us an insanely better team. Nobody else on the market is going to improve this team nearly as much.
If there is one scenario that I would be completely ok with...it's this.

Shero calls up his buddy Poile and talks to him about a sign and trade for Suter, in the deal, Shero dangles Staal + one of Martin, Michalek or Orpik.

Pens end up getting Suter + one of their youngsters like Wilson or maybe they want to gift us Hornqvist (gladly take that too) and the Preds get Staal and a guy to step in and be a top 4 minute cruncher for the Preds.





Then I woke up.

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05-05-2012, 07:06 AM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach John McGuirk View Post
Even though the Preds are going down, Suter has shown me he's absolutely incredible in every facet of the game.

Hell, I think he's better than Weber.

Give me that guy. As much as I want Parise or another star winger, Suter makes us an insanely better team. Nobody else on the market is going to improve this team nearly as much.
Its like Orpik vs Martin last year. Martin was probably the better player but Orpik brings that easily definable quality to hang your hat on. Suter is very much like Martin in that he's not out there being overly physical or scoring lots of goals, only he's better at everything than Martin. Weber has the physicality and shot. He's the game changer. Which is better? Depends who you ask.

I'm curious what the people who didn't like Martin last year at 5 mil think of Suter getting 6-7 mil somewhere. I hear you don't pay a guy top defenseman dollars if he doesn't have a specific hat-hanging quality. I would assume that translates to Suter too unless he's good enough at everything to bypass that argument.

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Old
05-05-2012, 07:20 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by hockeyisgood View Post
I think Shrimper and others would like to see Parise signed. This essentially allows the Pens to trade Staal for a high-end defenseman.

I would love to see Erik Gudbranson on the Pens defense.

This is the make smiles scenerio:

Sign Parise

Trade Staal for Gudbranson and Grimaldi

Orpik, TK and Strait for Stewart and Cole

Parise (6.5) - Crosby (8.7) - Stewart (3.25)
Kunitz (3.75) - Malkin (8.7) - Neal (5)
Cooke (1.8) - Dupuis (1.5) - Tangradi (.9)
Asham (.65) - Vitale (.550) - Jeffrey (.575)

Letang (3.5) - Michalek (4) or Letang (3.5) - Gudbranson (3.2)
Gudbranson (3.2) - Niskanen (2) Suter (6.5) - Niskanen (2)
Cole (1.3) - Engelland (.567) Cole (1.3) - Engelland (.567)
Despres (.840) /Bortuzzo (.6)

Still leaves room to trade Michalek for a decent 3C and to bring in Suter.

Signed... Greedy Pens fan.
Signing Parise would be a dream.

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Old
05-05-2012, 08:54 AM
  #140
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Pipe dream even.

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Old
05-05-2012, 09:00 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Signing Parise would be a dream.
Signing Parise would free the Pens up to trade Staal for a high-end defenseman.

Then signing a 3C would be the priority.

What are your thoughts on Gudbranson to the Pens for Staal?

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05-05-2012, 09:06 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Pipe dream even.
I don't think the Pens signing Parise is unrealistic. In fact, the Staal situation may make it more likely.

Who knows how the reality will unfold as there are many factors. Who knows what Parise wants and what value he puts on money, situation and team.

But we will surely find out. And this is a nice place to imagine "what could bes."

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Old
05-05-2012, 09:34 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by hockeyisgood View Post
I don't think the Pens signing Parise is unrealistic. In fact, the Staal situation may make it more likely.

Who knows how the reality will unfold as there are many factors. Who knows what Parise wants and what value he puts on money, situation and team.

But we will surely find out. And this is a nice place to imagine "what could bes."
I'll never say never after the Marian Hossa trade but Parise seems like the kind of player a GM would be willing to clear some space for in order to keep him long term. Marty's 5M might be coming off the books this summer if he retires... if the cap goes up a bit / the CBA gets done, I could see Parise getting his long-term deal to lower the hit.

Thinking about what Shero would have to trade to get his rights (and then possibly have him walk) isn't all that appealing to me. Maybe Lou will take Martin back in return for Parise's rights. Talk about a pipe dream. Or, he could wait until FA but...

...it's about 100:1 Shero makes a big move on the offensive side of the equation when our D and G were so lousy the last month of the season / post-season. I think it's more likely any big addition will be on defense and/or in goal, while he'll plan on putting Dupuis back with Crosby, leaving Neal with Geno and signing typical drifter forwards like he always does during the summer. We had no problems at all scoring goals so I don't think that will be his focus.

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05-05-2012, 09:35 AM
  #144
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You don't think there is a reason why Phoenix and Boston always have a top 5 goalie no matter who is in net? You don't think there is a reason why both of St. Louis goalies had outstanding numbers this year? It certainly is all about system. So Fleury has been bad in the playoffs, what about Brodeur's choke job against Carolina in 09? Is he not still one of the greatest? Goalies have bad stretches. Goalies have bad playoff performances. It is just the way it is. Our structure needs fixed.
Watching the Devils D against Philly makes me realize just how bad our defense was.

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05-05-2012, 09:43 AM
  #145
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Watching the Devils D against Philly makes me realize just how bad our defense was.
I was thinking the same thing. And frankly our goaltending too. I'm trying not to be too much of a MAF homer on this because he's one of my favorite players but the fact is he sucked, and there is a trend over the last three post-seasons that's hard to ignore. But yah it's frustrating to watch how well NJ has handled Philly's offense and makes me wonder who else among the remaining teams could do the same / if our D is not only not the deepest of the lot but the worst of the lot. And defensive coaching comes into play also in that assessment. D doesn't play in a vacuum. They use the coach's system and pairings and matchups.

But clearly some big change is required, maybe in all three areas. A big D acquisition (swap Martin for a proven physical D, or Staal for a great D+ while sending Martin elsewhere or buying him out), a change in goal (or at least the G coach), and a change in system might all be in the offing.


Last edited by Darth Vitale: 05-05-2012 at 09:49 AM.
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05-05-2012, 10:00 AM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
I was thinking the same thing. And frankly our goaltending too. I'm trying not to be too much of a MAF homer on this because he's one of my favorite players but the fact is he sucked, and there is a trend over the last three post-seasons that's hard to ignore. But yah it's frustrating to watch how well NJ has handled Philly's offense and makes me wonder who else among the remaining teams could do the same / if our D is not only not the deepest of the lot but the worst of the lot. And defensive coaching comes into play also in that assessment. D doesn't play in a vacuum. They use the coach's system and pairings and matchups.

But clearly some big change is required, maybe in all three areas. A big D acquisition (swap Martin for a proven physical D, or Staal for a great D+ while sending Martin elsewhere or buying him out), a change in goal (or at least the G coach), and a change in system might all be in the offing.
I think there will be changes on D. I know people are saying "realistically we should expect the same D core as last season", I doubt it, I think Shero knows we need bigger, more physical defensemen.

As for the goaltending situation, there will be a change in goal, Brent Johnson's leaving and there will be a new back up. . Nah but in all honesty, nothing needs changed for the goaltending, there is no point in hiring a new coach because Meloche can still help Fleury, he's not a bad coach. And we can hire all the goalie coaches we want, Fleury won't play any better in the playoffs until he himself plays better, defense not ******** the bed would help also I should add.

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05-05-2012, 10:12 AM
  #147
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Why do the Pens need Parise? Offense isn't an issue, it's keeping pucks out of their own net.

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05-05-2012, 10:33 AM
  #148
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Why do the Pens need Parise? Offense isn't an issue, it's keeping pucks out of their own net.
I almost want to agree but the Pens don't play a clean offensive game. I think part of its because of the system but some of it has to do with a lack of poise and skating ability on the wing. Can you imagine what Crosby and Malkin could do with wingers that could force defenses off the blue line?

I actually like the Pens team and wouldn't cry if they came back next year looking the same but added more structure. At the same time its fun blowing up and talking trades so how about this...

Staal for Kipper and John Gaudreau
MAF and Martin for Patrick Sharp and Mike Frolik

Kunitz-Crosby-Sharp
Frolik-Malkin-Neal
Cooke-Gaustad-Dupuis
Adams or Park-Vitale-Parros

Orpik-Letang
Despres-Zib
Nisk-Engo

Kipper
Conk

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05-05-2012, 10:43 AM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
You get rid of Orpik before Michalek. That defence is worse than it is now.
I disagree, give Orpik a healthy summer to rest and train and I think he comes into training camp much fresher than the last few years. Orpik-Letang has also been a very effective pairing in the past and could be again, just as Niskanen-Engelland was this past season. The second pairing and the coaching systems/defensive strategy is what needs re-worked.

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05-05-2012, 10:58 AM
  #150
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Why do the Pens need Parise? Offense isn't an issue, it's keeping pucks out of their own net.
The only circumstance I would like to see Parise is if Staal is bent on leaving. It's the only player that is an impact player that could replace him. Other wise the cap space is better spent on defense.

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