HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Bergevin named new General Manager V2.0

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-03-2012, 07:37 PM
  #151
hockeyfan2k11
Registered User
 
hockeyfan2k11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 9,944
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverAlone View Post
Not funnier than Michel Villeneuve saying that he tested him during the interview to see if he was really ready.


The media think they run the ****ing organization.
So true. Which is why I was hoping we'd get an Anglo just to troll the hell out of them.

The media in Montreal really annoys me.

hockeyfan2k11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2012, 07:44 PM
  #152
DekeLikeYouMeanIt
RIP
 
DekeLikeYouMeanIt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,095
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stasis View Post
I... I never implied anything? But cheers!

I'm very familiar with working class French. Many of my friends are working class, and my gf's dad is a trucker... all fully French, no English. I'm completely bilingual, speak French most of the time and have zero accent. I'm not some snotty half American guy coming in here to be an ass or anything, I was just really curious. First time I see something similar where the English is heavily accented AND the French is broken.

Nothing to do with his ability or inability to coach. He seems like a great fit to me, tbh.
It happens. Sometimes when I switch back and forth, I end up with a few badly pronounced words

DekeLikeYouMeanIt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2012, 08:01 PM
  #153
Beatnik
Registered User
 
Beatnik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Québec
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,690
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Beatnik
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
So true. Which is why I was hoping we'd get an Anglo just to troll the hell out of them.

The media in Montreal really annoys me.
M.Villeneuve will stay an arrogant ***** no mather what. Besides we got an anglo coach this year and that did'nt change him. I'll never understand how you can keep a job as a sport animator when you clearly hate the athletes and the business around the sport.

P.Trudel was like that, he still complains all day long on twitter and seems to wonder why he does'nt have a job.

There is greats sports guys in Montreal tho, it's just wrong to generalize.

Beatnik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2012, 09:26 PM
  #154
1UP
Registered User
 
1UP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Québec
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,058
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stasis View Post
I... I never implied anything? But cheers!

I'm very familiar with working class French. Many of my friends are working class, and my gf's dad is a trucker... all fully French, no English. I'm completely bilingual, speak French most of the time and have zero accent. I'm not some snotty half American guy coming in here to be an ass or anything, I was just really curious. First time I see something similar where the English is heavily accented AND the French is broken.

Nothing to do with his ability or inability to coach. He seems like a great fit to me, tbh.
Simple.

When you learn a language after adulthood, you tend to keep an accent. That accent will remain with you in most part for your life.

So, he leaves QC at 19, has to speak english only for a long time, which he speaks with an accent. However, he probably didn't get a chance to speak french that often in Chicago, so he lost a bit of it over time.

So his english is heavily accented and his french needs a bit of a cleanup from disuse (plus sleepyness). His french should come back quickly, but his english will remain the same. He's very understandable in both languages though, which is a lot better than Gauthier, who couldn't be understood in any language, because he didn't fudging speak.

Bergevin's english is also quite better than Gainey's french.

1UP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2012, 09:30 PM
  #155
hockeyfan2k11
Registered User
 
hockeyfan2k11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 9,944
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatnik View Post
M.Villeneuve will stay an arrogant ***** no mather what. Besides we got an anglo coach this year and that did'nt change him. I'll never understand how you can keep a job as a sport animator when you clearly hate the athletes and the business around the sport.

P.Trudel was like that, he still complains all day long on twitter and seems to wonder why he does'nt have a job.

There is greats sports guys in Montreal tho, it's just wrong to generalize.
I hate the ones Habs media...there are some exceptions of course. But watching RDS makes me sick to my stomach.

hockeyfan2k11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2012, 09:32 PM
  #156
hockeyfan2k11
Registered User
 
hockeyfan2k11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 9,944
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1UP View Post

Bergevin's english is also quite better than Gainey's french.
Eh...it should be. French is an extremely difficult language to learn.

hockeyfan2k11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2012, 10:24 PM
  #157
1UP
Registered User
 
1UP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Québec
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,058
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Eh...it should be. French is an extremely difficult language to learn.
Butbutbut... I learnt it when I was a kid! Can't be that hard, can it?!?

(for safety)

1UP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2012, 10:44 PM
  #158
NotProkofievian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,347
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Eh...it should be. French is an extremely difficult language to learn.
All languages are difficult to learn: but so far as I'm concerned, French isn't even "up there," so to speak.

If French is extremely difficult, then Lithuanian is literally impossible.

NotProkofievian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2012, 10:58 PM
  #159
hockeyfan2k11
Registered User
 
hockeyfan2k11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 9,944
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
All languages are difficult to learn: but so far as I'm concerned, French isn't even "up there," so to speak.

If French is extremely difficult, then Lithuanian is literally impossible.
English is not difficult. Neither is spannish. French is quite difficult...with the tenses, exceptions, metric system, etc... But it's a matter of opinion.

hockeyfan2k11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2012, 11:24 PM
  #160
NotProkofievian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,347
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
English is not difficult. Neither is spannish. French is quite difficult...with the tenses, exceptions, metric system, etc... But it's a matter of opinion.
French has some specific challenges, but on the whole, it's not singularly difficult.

What's most challenging isn't grammar, or verb conjugation or exceptions: it's how to speak it, or even write it, without someone picking up that you're not French. How you go about conveying meaning is very metaphorical, in many cases.

NotProkofievian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2012, 11:26 PM
  #161
Kingbobert
Registered User
 
Kingbobert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Greece
Posts: 4,726
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1UP View Post
Simple.

When you learn a language after adulthood, you tend to keep an accent. That accent will remain with you in most part for your life.

So, he leaves QC at 19, has to speak english only for a long time, which he speaks with an accent. However, he probably didn't get a chance to speak french that often in Chicago, so he lost a bit of it over time.

So his english is heavily accented and his french needs a bit of a cleanup from disuse (plus sleepyness). His french should come back quickly, but his english will remain the same. He's very understandable in both languages though, which is a lot better than Gauthier, who couldn't be understood in any language, because he didn't fudging speak.

Bergevin's english is also quite better than Gainey's french.
its abit weird though cause he left at a young age so you'd think the accent would disappear. Mario, Bourque, and a lot of euros that come over quickly lose their accents or never had one. He must of really not have spoken a lick of english before he left though.

Its fine though i mean to me it's just a man thats fluent in both languages and speaks them with his own accent.

If you listen to Carbo, he speaks french similarly by mincing his words sometimes, but obviously carbo spend more time here so it's not as evident.

Kingbobert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 12:02 AM
  #162
hockeyfan2k11
Registered User
 
hockeyfan2k11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 9,944
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
French has some specific challenges, but on the whole, it's not singularly difficult.

What's most challenging isn't grammar, or verb conjugation or exceptions: it's how to speak it, or even write it, without someone picking up that you're not French. How you go about conveying meaning is very metaphorical, in many cases.
Again, it's a matter of opinion. There's no right/wrong answer here.

hockeyfan2k11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 05:51 AM
  #163
Analyzer*
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Renfrew, ON.
Country: Canada
Posts: 44,996
vCash: 50
It's easier to attain a basic grasp of English than French.

Poor grammar in English is so common due to so many foreigners just learning it that it's become acceptable and everyone understands.

I doubt hearing poor French sentence structure is as common.

With that out of the way, I'm sure Bergevin will do a fine job. Can't wait for the first trade/action/whatever you want to call it.

Analyzer* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 06:17 AM
  #164
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
PricePkPatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,196
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
English is not difficult. Neither is spannish. French is quite difficult...with the tenses, exceptions, metric system, etc... But it's a matter of opinion.
The metric system? You mean, the international standards of measure? Sorry to break it to you buddy, but most country except the Americans already uses it officially. It's not something language-specific.

PricePkPatch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 06:48 AM
  #165
Zam Boni
Registered User
 
Zam Boni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: 8 km from the Globe
Country: Sweden
Posts: 1,162
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
English is not difficult. Neither is spannish. French is quite difficult...with the tenses, exceptions, metric system, etc... But it's a matter of opinion.
Metric system difficult? What?
What am I missing?

100 cents to a dollar, right?
Well, how is 100 centimeter to a meter more difficult?

Zam Boni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 07:51 AM
  #166
BLONG7
Registered User
 
BLONG7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 13,588
vCash: 500
I like that Bergevin seems to be ready to communicate better with the team, and the media/fans...that being said, I don't think he needs to be on radio and TV the way a Brian Burke does....

Communicating with the players, and the coaching staff is a no brainer, but somehow doing a better job with the media and therefore the fans feel more part of things will be welcomed by all.....

The guy seems to be his own man, and will do a great job!!!

BLONG7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 08:16 AM
  #167
yianik
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,187
vCash: 500
I like the fact MB has no history with the Habs, was with the Hawks for the Kane cab incident, and has a sense of humour. Reason is that we have carried the Jean Beliveau standard of player conduct to our detriment. Dont get me wrong, Jean Beliveau is the epitomy of class and it would be terrific if all our players showed 75% of the class this man has. Unfortunately we live in a different time and we have thrown away too many bad boys over the years. I have read Chelios was moved because he was a partying bad boy and so did not live up to the CH. Carbonneau was traded for giving the media the bird at a golf tournament. Of course the worst trade in Habs history was Roy being traded due to his 10 second meltdown even they he apologized. Roy, in the eyes of Corey and Houle disgraced the team and as no one player is bigger than the team, he was gone. More recently we had many players struggle under JMs system, then react with frustration and then they were eventually gone.
The Habs just cant afford not to have patience with its players and we also need to have a level of tolerance because guys just arent like they were in Beliveaus day. Kane would have been gone if he were a Hab and Im guessing the return would have been so-so.
Im also reading that MB might have a better grasp of pro-scouting, which has been a weak spot ( more like a disaster ) on the team with Houle ( Andre Savard wasnt here long enough to judge, unfortunately), to BG . I acually thought PG was okay so far here.
With our top notch pro-scouting, improvement to even average in pro-scouting and player development should result in a sustained better team.

yianik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 08:24 AM
  #168
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 33,228
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by yianik View Post
I like the fact MB has no history with the Habs, was with the Hawks for the Kane cab incident, and has a sense of humour. Reason is that we have carried the Jean Beliveau standard of player conduct to our detriment. Dont get me wrong, Jean Beliveau is the epitomy of class and it would be terrific if all our players showed 75% of the class this man has. Unfortunately we live in a different time and we have thrown away too many bad boys over the years. I have read Chelios was moved because he was a partying bad boy and so did not live up to the CH. Carbonneau was traded for giving the media the bird at a golf tournament. Of course the worst trade in Habs history was Roy being traded due to his 10 second meltdown even they he apologized. Roy, in the eyes of Corey and Houle disgraced the team and as no one player is bigger than the team, he was gone. More recently we had many players struggle under JMs system, then react with frustration and then they were eventually gone.
The Habs just cant afford not to have patience with its players and we also need to have a level of tolerance because guys just arent like they were in Beliveaus day. Kane would have been gone if he were a Hab and Im guessing the return would have been so-so.
Im also reading that MB might have a better grasp of pro-scouting, which has been a weak spot ( more like a disaster ) on the team with Houle ( Andre Savard wasnt here long enough to judge, unfortunately), to BG . I acually thought PG was okay so far here.
With our top notch pro-scouting, improvement to even average in pro-scouting and player development should result in a sustained better team.
If you always keep the "bad boys" though the pendelum can swing the other way too and you have a team of radulov's who have the skill to do great things but don't because they don't care and the off ice stuff becomes a huge distraction in the room and in the media.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 09:22 AM
  #169
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
PricePkPatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,196
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edmontreal View Post
Metric system difficult? What?
What am I missing?

100 cents to a dollar, right?
Well, how is 100 centimeter to a meter more difficult?
Precisely. Plus, it's not even language-specific. You can use the imperial system when speaking French, or the metric while speaking english.

Some people are just out to find excuses as to why not to learn French.

PricePkPatch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 09:44 AM
  #170
yianik
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,187
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
If you always keep the "bad boys" though the pendelum can swing the other way too and you have a team of radulov's who have the skill to do great things but don't because they don't care and the off ice stuff becomes a huge distraction in the room and in the media.
I agree with this. Im talking about having what appears to be a 0 tolerance policy. If you look at what the player did, why he did it, whether you can work with the player ,what his value is to the team, and what you can get for him, this is what I ask for. Roy had a brief meltdown, you dont trade a franchise player for that. Given how Ribs acted in his last game to the Bell Centre makes me think he would have kept up his antics if he had stayed with the Habs and been a problem, but our return for him was awful given to horrible pro-scouting. Absolute policies are usually ( not always) absolutely bad and I think it appears we have such a policy and its been bad. Again, not saying that some bad boys dont need to go.


Last edited by yianik: 05-04-2012 at 09:45 AM. Reason: left out word
yianik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 09:50 AM
  #171
DenverHabsFan
Registered User
 
DenverHabsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Highlands Ranch, CO
Country: United States
Posts: 1,625
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
English is not difficult. Neither is spannish. French is quite difficult...with the tenses, exceptions, metric system, etc... But it's a matter of opinion.
I argue that with other Americans here all the time. What's so difficult with multiples of 10??

As opposed to:

1 mile = 5280 feet
1 gallon = 128 ounces
tenths of a mile on a highway??

...and all sorts of other oddball stuff I have to remember here in the US.


DenverHabsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 10:05 AM
  #172
NotProkofievian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,347
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Again, it's a matter of opinion. There's no right/wrong answer here.
Opinions can be wrong, too.

I would rank French somewhere in the middle of difficulties for an English speaker. Not as easy as Swedish, but not as impossible as Lithuanian, or Finnish.

There's just nothing especially unique about French that makes it difficult beyond the clever way that most French people speak. This is because of the inflection of the language. The only unique inflection compared to english is gender. Case is generally not inflected for, as case is mostly dealt with using prepositions and word order. Even though the word order is very different from English, the idea that you use word order and prepositions to control your sentence structure is a familiar one.

Languages which are "heavily inflected," inflect based on case as well as number, gender, and tense, which makes the ideas of how you go about saying anything of value very foreign to an English speaker. It's no longer word order: in fact, in many case based languages, word order is of rather secondary importance in many situations.

NotProkofievian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 10:12 AM
  #173
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 33,228
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by yianik View Post
I agree with this. Im talking about having what appears to be a 0 tolerance policy. If you look at what the player did, why he did it, whether you can work with the player ,what his value is to the team, and what you can get for him, this is what I ask for. Roy had a brief meltdown, you dont trade a franchise player for that. Given how Ribs acted in his last game to the Bell Centre makes me think he would have kept up his antics if he had stayed with the Habs and been a problem, but our return for him was awful given to horrible pro-scouting. Absolute policies are usually ( not always) absolutely bad and I think it appears we have such a policy and its been bad. Again, not saying that some bad boys dont need to go.
Roy thing was a huge mistake...started with hiring Tremblay as coach, then making a panic trade for NHLers instaed of loading up on picks and prospects.

Ribeiro in hindsight obviously Ninimmaa didn't work out but they had to move him, lots of off ice, attitude and diving issues, he was not very well liked by the vets and had a "posse". I think he'd be playing in Europe right now had he not been traded to a non hockey market and got his act mostly in order.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 11:54 AM
  #174
Iwishihadacup
Registered User
 
Iwishihadacup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Quebec City
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,724
vCash: 500
let the honeymoon begin

Iwishihadacup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 11:57 AM
  #175
Habaneros
Habs Cup champs 2010
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,810
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwishihadacup View Post
let the honeymoon begin
Steve is already married!

Habaneros is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:10 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.