HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The FAN 1200 - Pierre McGuire - 3rd overall vs J. Staal??

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-03-2012, 05:17 PM
  #151
GrangerX
Registered User
 
GrangerX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 70
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
If the trade is made for need A-it's dumb and B-we have bigger needs than a #2 center.
Plekanec and DD as our top 2 centers isn't bringing us anywhere..not big enough, not gritty enough and simply not good enough. Staal wouldn't be a number 2 center on our team, and has all the attributes to be a force and the top quality skilled center with size that we've needed for forever ad the type of guy you need to go deep in the playoffs. The idea you actually compared him possibly to Gomez is an assessment that would be met with total derision probably everywhere else in the hockey world other than here.

GrangerX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2012, 05:25 PM
  #152
HockeyFan87
Registered User
 
HockeyFan87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 91
vCash: 500
Oh boy!

Am I happy that guy (Mcguire) didn't get the GM job! And even more that some posters here don't work for the habs organization!

I'm a believer that if things go well the Habs can get a better offensive player with the 3rd pick than Jordan Staal in one of Galchenyuk, Forsberg and Grigorenko (even if some people here stopped believing in him).

We already have 2 players in his mold with Pleks and Eller.

No way I would trade that pick for Jordan Staal, 1 year away from being an UFA to boot.

HockeyFan87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2012, 05:29 PM
  #153
x74Pacioretty74x
Registered User
 
x74Pacioretty74x's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,924
vCash: 500
Im on the fence. I love Staal. So for me to trade for him..
1. He'd have to be extended.
2. We'd have to trade Plekanec for a good winger (i.e Ryan) (We may add but still id try and get Ryan)

Leaving us with something like..

Ryan-Staal-Cole (drooling...)
Pacioretty-DD-Gionta
Bourque-Eller-?
Moen-White-Staubitz/Darche

Subban-Gorges
Markov-Emelin
Kaberle-Diaz/Free Agent

Price
Budaj


Is that an improved team in your opinion? I would definitely say so.

x74Pacioretty74x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2012, 05:29 PM
  #154
peate
Habs fan 4 life.
 
peate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Island
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,581
vCash: 2007
We spent the whole winter with the fail for Nail and tank this tank that. Now we have a high draft pick and you want to trade it for a player who'll be gone after one year? No thanks. I'll take my chances with the draft.

peate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2012, 05:31 PM
  #155
Myron Gaines*
Trop Giou
 
Myron Gaines*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,391
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4life74 View Post
Im on the fence. I love Staal. So for me to trade for him..
1. He'd have to be extended.
2. We'd have to trade Plekanec for a good winger (i.e Ryan) (We may add but still id try and get Ryan)

Leaving us with something like..

Ryan-Staal-Cole (drooling...)
Pacioretty-DD-Gionta
Bourque-Eller-?
Moen-White-Staubitz/Darche

Subban-Gorges
Markov-Emelin
Kaberle-Diaz/Free Agent

Price
Budaj


Is that an improved team in your opinion? I would definitely say so.
If we trade for Staal, Pacioretty is going the other way for sure.

Myron Gaines* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2012, 05:35 PM
  #156
GrangerX
Registered User
 
GrangerX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 70
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by peate View Post
We spent the whole winter with the fail for Nail and tank this tank that. Now we have a high draft pick and you want to trade it for a player who'll be gone after one year? No thanks. I'll take my chances with the draft.
I think most people talking about it have stated they wouldn't do it if he wouldn't be signed. Obviously dealing our #3 pick for any player who would leave in a year is retarded.

GrangerX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2012, 05:36 PM
  #157
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,445
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrangerX View Post
Plekanec and DD as our top 2 centers isn't bringing us anywhere..not big enough, not gritty enough and simply not good enough. Staal wouldn't be a number 2 center on our team, and has all the attributes to be a force and the top quality skilled center with size that we've needed for forever ad the type of guy you need to go deep in the playoffs. The idea you actually compared him possibly to Gomez is an assessment that would be met with total derision probably everywhere else in the hockey world other than here.
I didn't compare HIM to Gomez I compared trading the #3 overall pick for him and giving him big $$ expecting him to carry the team to Gainey trading McDonagh for Gomez and his contract.

It's still adding yet another #2 center. If I was to make that kind of deal, then trade for Getzlaf, at least you can reasonably expect to get #1 center production out of him.

Trading for Staal is more a band aid solution than a remedy.

In terms of need, we need a winger behind Cole and Pacioretty waayyyy before another 50-60 point center...same for a #3-4 shutdown d-man.

People need to give up this crazy dream that having a big #1 center magically makes you a powerhouse team...how big is Richards? Giroux? Henrique? Vermette? McDonald?

How far did big centers bring Pittsburgh? San Jose? Columbus? Anaheim? Calgary? Minnesota? Tampa Bay? Vancouver?

I see no direct corrselation between success in the NHL and the size of your centers. Sure you need size on your roster and can't win with a team of 5'8" smurfs, but that size has to be blended in up front and on defense to make room for the smaller players. Desharnais size is a non factor because he has 6'2" wingers.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2012, 05:43 PM
  #158
Boris Le Tigre
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
 
Boris Le Tigre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: More Toast !
Country: Vatican City State
Posts: 5,389
vCash: 500
If the league continues on its current trajectory toward the return of the dead puck era then I am more open to this move.

I hope the NHL trys to ride the refs to call the games more by the book next year. I think that is the key for more scoring. If the NHL goes in that direction I am less open to this move.

Staal's appeal is stronger in the play-offs where the gameplay dictates that a guy as skilled as Ovechkin is a role player.

Boris Le Tigre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2012, 05:51 PM
  #159
x74Pacioretty74x
Registered User
 
x74Pacioretty74x's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,924
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverAlone View Post
If we trade for Staal, Pacioretty is going the other way for sure.
Disagree completely.

x74Pacioretty74x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2012, 05:55 PM
  #160
Myron Gaines*
Trop Giou
 
Myron Gaines*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,391
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4life74 View Post
Disagree completely.
Good for you.

Myron Gaines* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2012, 05:57 PM
  #161
tlureb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 35
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyReb View Post
Man, tough crowd.

Staal is exactly what we need, only we won't have to wait the three years it will take Grigorenko/Galchenyuk/Forsberg to get there. I mean geez, the chance to get a 24 year old, 6'3, 220lbs, character center who scored 25 goals last year and who is already defensively polished... and you guys are worried about his contract?? You'll have over a year to sign him! Have you no faith in your city, your organization, your fans, your owner?? Why wouldn't he re-sign here?? If you can't convince a guy to sign with your team with over a year to do so what makes anybody think we can sign somebody like Parise instead??

Everybody wants the new GM to be aggressive... well, being aggressive comes with risk. Paul Homlgren traded a first round pick for two UFAs... not guys who were a year away from being on the market, guys who were weeks away from being on the market. Guys who would never have a chance to play in front of Philly fans, to live in the city, to experience what it was like to be Flyers before making their decision. THAT was aggressive, and Timonen and Hartnell have become key cogs in that organization.

Like I said in my original post, if you are worried about him being injury-prone that's one thing. But if you think he's going to be healthy... With the 3rd overall we would be lucky to get what Staal already brings, and he's still getting better.
J.Stall for 3rd overall + Gomez' contract.

You then turn around and use cap space on an all out bid for left winger Parise. With Stall in the fold, the albatross out in the cold, you raise your odd of catching the big fish considerably. Although you ought to expect a huge challenge from Lamoriello ...among others.

The new GM and the new HC start their partnering tenure with a clean slate, two proven leaders of captaincy material...one presently at the forefront, the other circumstantially upstaged..., the making of an extremely high IQ, highly dedicated alternate first line...if you plug quick learner, high upside Louis Leblanc in at right wing.

You get your ticket to post season play and more, ....and Pittsburg gets its hands on either the winger of its dreams (Yakupov or Forsberg) or defenseman Murray, ...its missing back-end link to hitting pay dirt. And they get it for cheap, making up for their new third line center's cap hit with a Stanley Cup dowry.

Trading in Sports should never be a zero-sum game. In this scenario, it certainly wouldn't be. Good call Pierre McGuire...!

tlureb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2012, 05:59 PM
  #162
overlords
Hfboards
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Trolling Brian Wilde
Posts: 26,411
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverAlone View Post
Good for you.
Pac got more goals and assists than Staal ever has playing on the worst team in the conference while coming off a career threatening injury.

Pac > Staal.

Although if you mean that the pens would WANT him in return, well sure, who wouldn't?

overlords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2012, 06:06 PM
  #163
GrangerX
Registered User
 
GrangerX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 70
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I didn't compare HIM to Gomez I compared trading the #3 overall pick for him and giving him big $$ expecting him to carry the team to Gainey trading McDonagh for Gomez and his contract.

It's still adding yet another #2 center. If I was to make that kind of deal, then trade for Getzlaf, at least you can reasonably expect to get #1 center production out of him.

Trading for Staal is more a band aid solution than a remedy.

In terms of need, we need a winger behind Cole and Pacioretty waayyyy before another 50-60 point center...same for a #3-4 shutdown d-man.

People need to give up this crazy dream that having a big #1 center magically makes you a powerhouse team...how big is Richards? Giroux? Henrique? Vermette? McDonald?

How far did big centers bring Pittsburgh? San Jose? Columbus? Anaheim? Calgary? Minnesota? Tampa Bay? Vancouver?

I see no direct corrselation between success in the NHL and the size of your centers. Sure you need size on your roster and can't win with a team of 5'8" smurfs, but that size has to be blended in up front and on defense to make room for the smaller players. Desharnais size is a non factor because he has 6'2" wingers.
Getzlaf has basically been a point per game player...topped 81 points only once and hasn't been over 76 in the last 4 years. Why is he a quality number 1 center?..because he has size, grit and is dependable in both ends of the ice even though he doesn't put up superstar offensive numbers...all similar attributes to Staal IMO. Staal was on pace for about a 65 point season this year spending practically half the year on the 3RD line. He was a beast in the playoffs, a sensational penalty killer and is already regraded as one of the best 2 way centers in the game..and he's only 23 years old. If this guy gets 1st line minutes somewhere I think he's gonna shine and all things being equal (i.e. he'd be signed long term) I'd take all of that any day of the week.

To me thinking that DD and Pleks is a good enough 1-2 punch to make us an elite team in this league is kind of a crazy dream. Size isn't everything agreed..I really like DD and I don't mind Pleks...and I'm also convinced that this is not good enough to compete with teams at the elite level and in the playoffs for a variety of reasons. As you said size has to be blended which is why one of those guys in the top 6 is fine...not both of them. Staal combined with DD for example for reasons already mentions instantly makes us a significantly better team IMO.

True we need more depth at wing as well..we also need more size, stability and aggression on defense..all reasons why we finished 28th. All these things have to be addressed over time. I think you are underrating Staal and what this guy could be if given top minutes, and given his youth think he is a proven option so we'll just have to respectfully disagree on that. Having said that, there are not many guys or situations I would deal this pick for as I think we do need to build through the draft..this just happens to be an intriguing option. Given though that he can't be negotiated with till after the draft and because when all is said and done I'm not sure the Pens will want to let him go, we'll probably in the end be talking about who we drafted and hopefully how he can help us moving forward.


Last edited by GrangerX: 05-03-2012 at 06:20 PM.
GrangerX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2012, 06:09 PM
  #164
Myron Gaines*
Trop Giou
 
Myron Gaines*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,391
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Pac got more goals and assists than Staal ever has playing on the worst team in the conference while coming off a career threatening injury.

Pac > Staal.

Although if you mean that the pens would WANT him in return, well sure, who wouldn't?
I clearly meant that the pens would want Pacioretty, it's logical. Now to say that Pacioretty is better than Jordan Staal who plays much tougher minutes ...not so sure about that. To boot it off they're the same age and the only reason Jordan Staal isn't a top 6 centre, is that the two best players in the world have those spots in his team.

Myron Gaines* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2012, 06:20 PM
  #165
LyricalLyricist
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,277
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Pac got more goals and assists than Staal ever has playing on the worst team in the conference while coming off a career threatening injury.

Pac > Staal.

Although if you mean that the pens would WANT him in return, well sure, who wouldn't?
Staal and max are pretty much equal.

LyricalLyricist is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2012, 06:28 PM
  #166
Kimota
Nation of Poutine
 
Kimota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: La Vieille Capitale
Country: France
Posts: 21,774
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RC51 View Post
look everyone.
the best deal in hockey is when you draft a great player who during his first rookie contract at 1.2 mil per year scores you 40-50 goals per year.
Stall has already ended his " good deal years".
only 1 more year at 4 mil and he is free again to sign for 5-6 mil.

No way I do this.
I like how you think. This is the way a GM should think in a cap/free agency World.

I keep thinking of McGuire as GM and even if he would gotten players I would not approve, his managment years would have been entertaining. The guy would not have stayed on his laurels, things would have happened.

Kimota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2012, 06:45 PM
  #167
habitue*
 
habitue*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,252
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by peate View Post
We spent the whole winter with the fail for Nail and tank this tank that. Now we have a high draft pick and you want to trade it for a player who'll be gone after one year? No thanks. I'll take my chances with the draft.
1- No one knows if it's gonna happen...

2- If it happens, I am pretty sure the Habs would offer a long-term deal with Staal"s agent before finalizing the trade.

No way they would trade a 3rd pick for one-year of Staal.

habitue* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2012, 06:51 PM
  #168
The Gal Pals
Breaking Hab
 
The Gal Pals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,829
vCash: 1549
Hells to the no. Has anyone actually looked at this guys numbers? He has 50 pts in his best season. And since his first yr in the NHL he has come no where near hitting 29 goals. Plus he'll be unrestricted next yr so there's guarantee he sticks around. Big fat no for me.

I'm 100% sure that if we draft Galchenyuk or Forsberg, they'll be better than Jordan Staal.

The Gal Pals is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2012, 06:54 PM
  #169
habitue*
 
habitue*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,252
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by airic000 View Post
Hells to the no. Has anyone actually looked at this guys numbers? He has 50 pts in his best season. Plus he'll be unrestricted next yr so there's guarantee he sticks around. I'm 100% sure that if we draft Galchenyuk or Forsberg, they'll be better than Jordan Staal.
50 points in 62 games, and 9 points in 6 playoffs games.

+ the guy is playing behind Malkin and Crosby....

habitue* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2012, 07:00 PM
  #170
The Gal Pals
Breaking Hab
 
The Gal Pals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,829
vCash: 1549
Quote:
Originally Posted by habitue View Post
50 points in 62 games, and 9 points in 6 playoffs games.

+ the guy is playing behind Malkin and Crosby....

Well first off, Crosby's been injured more than not so Staal has seen his fair share of the 2nd line centre role. Even Malkin has been injured quite a bit. And still his numbers ain't great for someone you're willing to trade the 3rd overall pick for. Plus he's had his fair share of injury woes these past 2 seasons.

All I'm saying is that we have the chance of getting someone equal to or better than Staal who is younger and not gonna cost a fortune for many years to come. Forget Staal man.

The Gal Pals is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2012, 07:01 PM
  #171
habdynasty
Registered User
 
habdynasty's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,778
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habitue View Post
50 points in 62 games, and 9 points in 6 playoffs games.

+ the guy is playing behind Malkin and Crosby....
I want a Staal on the team and i dont care which one , those boys are awesome hockey players..

habdynasty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2012, 07:02 PM
  #172
habitue*
 
habitue*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,252
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by airic000 View Post
Well first off, Crosby's been injured more than not so Staal has seen his fair share of the 2nd line centre role. Even Malkin has been injured quite a bit. And still his numbers ain't great for someone you're willing to trade the 3rd overall pick for. Plus he's had his fair share of injury woes these past 2 seasons.

All I'm saying is that we have the chance of getting someone equal to or better than Staal who is younger and not gonna cost a fortune for many years to come. Forget Staal man.
That new kid won't play in the NHL next year, and possibly not the next...

Plekanec can be dealt for something really good: a top-two line winger...


Then we are back in business.

Staal is ONLY 24 !

habitue* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2012, 07:05 PM
  #173
The Gal Pals
Breaking Hab
 
The Gal Pals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,829
vCash: 1549
Quote:
Originally Posted by habitue View Post
That new kid won't play in the NHL next year, and possibly not the next...

Plekanec can be dealt for something really good: a top-two line winger...


Then we are back in business.


Staal is ONLY 24 !
So what? I'd rather watch the best prospect we've had in yrs develop than overpay for a guy that'll bank us 50 pts a season and probably demand over $5M. It's absolutely ludicrous.

And he may only be 24 this yr but he'll be 25 next yr and then he can say bye bye Mtl.

The Gal Pals is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2012, 07:07 PM
  #174
habitue*
 
habitue*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,252
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by airic000 View Post
So what? I'd rather watch the best prospect we've had in yrs develop than overpay for a guy that'll bank us 50 pts a season and probably demand over $5M. It's absolutely ludicrous.
The guy has played with very ordinary wingers since the beginning of his carreer.

Put him on the market and I am sure Edmonton would give their 1st overall pick for him.

I'd rather give 5 million a year to Staal than to Plekanec

habitue* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2012, 07:07 PM
  #175
LyricalLyricist
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,277
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by airic000 View Post
Hells to the no. Has anyone actually looked at this guys numbers? He has 50 pts in his best season. And since his first yr in the NHL he has come no where near hitting 29 goals. Plus he'll be unrestricted next yr so there's guarantee he sticks around. Big fat no for me.

I'm 100% sure that if we draft Galchenyuk or Forsberg, they'll be better than Jordan Staal.
He scored 25 in 62 games this year. How is 25 no where close to 29?

In fact, 25 goals in 62 games is like 33 goals in 82 games.

Staal is likely a 30 goal-35/40 assist center IMO.

Not elite but with his size and solid two-way play he'd make an excellent combo with Plekanec IMO.

LyricalLyricist is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:39 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.