HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Owner position: Melnyk says NHLPA offer not good enough

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-13-2004, 09:22 AM
  #1
chara
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 894
vCash: 500
Owner position: Melnyk says NHLPA offer not good enough

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=107980

Cost certainty has to be part of any agreement moving forward. Goodenow knows it and threw the 24% out there as a desperate attempt to steer clear of it.

chara is offline  
Old
12-13-2004, 09:27 AM
  #2
Onion Boy
Registered User
 
Onion Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: Japan
Posts: 2,676
vCash: 500
Actually, the NHLPA has given the owners a perfect opportunity to exercise cost certainty. There's nothing wrong with the system, just owners paying too much for players. The 24% give-back essentially gives the owners a clean slate to work with and if they want cost certainty it should be up to them to create a budget and work within it.

Personally, I still favor a more stiff luxury tax scheme, but the beauty of the NHLPA's recent proposal is that it places the blame for the current economic state of the league squarely on the owners (which is precisely where it belongs IMO).

Onion Boy is offline  
Old
12-13-2004, 09:55 AM
  #3
djhn579
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Tonawanda, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,747
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjb3599
Actually, the NHLPA has given the owners a perfect opportunity to exercise cost certainty. There's nothing wrong with the system, just owners paying too much for players. The 24% give-back essentially gives the owners a clean slate to work with and if they want cost certainty it should be up to them to create a budget and work within it.

Personally, I still favor a more stiff luxury tax scheme, but the beauty of the NHLPA's recent proposal is that it places the blame for the current economic state of the league squarely on the owners (which is precisely where it belongs IMO).
The owners seem to think there is something wrong with the system. Maybe the problem is the players union is using their SCORE system to make sure they have a good chance of getting the best deal in arbitration and also make decisions on which players should hold out and for for what...

djhn579 is offline  
Old
12-13-2004, 10:10 AM
  #4
Lanny MacDonald*
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Tuvalu
Posts: 4,457
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjb3599
There's nothing wrong with the system, just owners paying too much for players.
The problem with the system is that players can collude and generla managers cannot. How fair is it that the NHLPA gets to share information with agents and get to discuss negotiating tactics, yet the NHL teams are not allowed to discuss this or be sued for collusion. The CBA is the only tool they can use to prevent this collusion. They have to hold fast.

Lanny MacDonald* is offline  
Old
12-13-2004, 10:32 AM
  #5
Benji Frank
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,646
vCash: 500
Has anyone read any rumours as to what will be countered tomorrow?? Will the owners move away from cost certainty and offer a stiff luxury tax?

At least last week, leading up to Thursday there was gossip & little leaks to the media!! I guess the players are more like women then the owners!!!!

Benji Frank is offline  
Old
12-13-2004, 10:36 AM
  #6
HFNHL PIT GM
The Darth of Tytan
 
HFNHL PIT GM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,624
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benji Frank
Has anyone read any rumours as to what will be countered tomorrow?? Will the owners move away from cost certainty and offer a stiff luxury tax?

At least last week, leading up to Thursday there was gossip & little leaks to the media!! I guess the players are more like women then the owners!!!!
i think its pretty clear they will not accept it. they will not accept until the players agree to cost certainty. where have you been ?

oh well, hope you all are happy when we get it. you will deserve what you get too.

lol, say hello to the era of NYR, TOR and STL finally having a chance to win.

dr

HFNHL PIT GM is offline  
Old
12-13-2004, 10:38 AM
  #7
Schlep Rock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,732
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by djhn579
The owners seem to think there is something wrong with the system. Maybe the problem is the players union is using their SCORE system to make sure they have a good chance of getting the best deal in arbitration and also make decisions on which players should hold out and for for what...
Please tell me you are kidding when you say the SCORE system is a problem?

Schlep Rock is offline  
Old
12-13-2004, 10:40 AM
  #8
SENSible1*
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,543
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DementedReality
i think its pretty clear they will not accept it. they will not accept until the players agree to cost certainty. where have you been ?

dr
Then perhaps the players should get on with the business of negotiating the best cost certainty deal they can get instead of losing another year or more of salary fighting a losing cause.

SENSible1* is offline  
Old
12-13-2004, 10:44 AM
  #9
HFNHL PIT GM
The Darth of Tytan
 
HFNHL PIT GM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,624
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
Then perhaps the players should get on with the business of negotiating the best cost certainty deal they can get instead of losing another year or more of salary fighting a losing cause.
perhaps they should ... but these are guys who are programmed to never back down. they are people who are willing to play on broken limbs rather than admit defeat.

they are not the type to give the bully their lunch money just to save getting beaten up and they wont give in to the bullys in the NHL either.

dr

HFNHL PIT GM is offline  
Old
12-13-2004, 10:47 AM
  #10
porknbeans
Registered User
 
porknbeans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,723
vCash: 500
Can someone tell me why the players decertifying and in turn destroying the league to the ground is not some big threat?

The players have the hammers. If the owners continue to be unreasonable, they will decertify, and the teams will not be worth anything.

Only an idiot would think this is to help fix the system for the small markets, when its clear that the ownres do not want to share revenues. The way they would help the smaller revenue teams is by sharing revenues from the top clubs. They do not want to share more than 65 million, to replace the old TV deal.

You think melnyk is gonna be with bettman when the sens are on the verge of destruction? You really think Ottawa could compete if all players became free-agents at will and could sign with whatever team offered them the most?

porknbeans is offline  
Old
12-13-2004, 10:50 AM
  #11
SENSible1*
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,543
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DementedReality
perhaps they should ... but these are guys who are programmed to never back down. they are people who are willing to play on broken limbs rather than admit defeat.

they are not the type to give the bully their lunch money just to save getting beaten up and they wont give in to the bullys in the NHL either.

dr
That is exactly why they needed competent leadership. Too bad they have Goodenow and co.

SENSible1* is offline  
Old
12-13-2004, 10:51 AM
  #12
SENSible1*
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,543
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by scaredsensfan
Can someone tell me why the players decertifying and in turn destroying the league to the ground is not some big threat?

The players have the hammers. If the owners continue to be unreasonable, they will decertify, and the teams will not be worth anything.

Only an idiot would think this is to help fix the system for the small markets, when its clear that the ownres do not want to share revenues. The way they would help the smaller revenue teams is by sharing revenues from the top clubs. They do not want to share more than 65 million, to replace the old TV deal.

You think melnyk is gonna be with bettman when the sens are on the verge of destruction? You really think Ottawa could compete if all players became free-agents at will and could sign with whatever team offered them the most?
Because you continue to be under the delusion that the owners wouldn't welcome decertification with open arms.

SENSible1* is offline  
Old
12-13-2004, 10:52 AM
  #13
Pepper
Registered User
 
Pepper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,251
vCash: 500
That article should open some eyes here, especially those of those confused, young pro-PA Sens fans here who really thought Melnyk likes to lose money every year to keep his current team intact under the PA's proposal.

Pepper is offline  
Old
12-13-2004, 11:01 AM
  #14
porknbeans
Registered User
 
porknbeans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,723
vCash: 500
Melnyk is a sleazy liar just like the rest of the owners. You really think that the Sens generate less than 31 milion US in revenues? They are AT Least 2 times that, if not more.

Their primary expense (salaries) would be around 32 million next year. Therefore by your own stupidity, you are arguing that the Sens generate less than that, or Melnyk would not be "losing money"

Why did anyone think that Melnyk would come out and say something different than his sheep owner group? They aren't going to contradict Bettman, after he proposes a system tommorow that the NHLPA will surely reject.

porknbeans is offline  
Old
12-13-2004, 11:04 AM
  #15
SPARTAKUS*
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hearst
Country: Canada
Posts: 680
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper
That article should open some eyes here, especially those of those confused, young pro-PA Sens fans here who really thought Melnyk likes to lose money every year to keep his current team intact under the PA's proposal.
There is no doubt that the owners do not want to negotiate in good faith. The only thing they want to do from the get go was break the union. IMO they're making a huge mistake. They don't want to negotiate they want to implement.
:mad:

SPARTAKUS* is offline  
Old
12-13-2004, 11:05 AM
  #16
shakes
Ancient Astronaut
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,859
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
That is exactly why they needed competent leadership. Too bad they have Goodenow and co.

They need competent leadership to know when to give in to a bully? I will never understand why some of you think that total capitulation by the NHLPA is the only way. Maybe you wish that we could go back to the "good old days" where the owners made all the money and the players got paid a pittance? Or how about the same salary structure as the CFL...

shakes is offline  
Old
12-13-2004, 11:06 AM
  #17
SENSible1*
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,543
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper
That article should open some eyes here, especially those of those confused, young pro-PA Sens fans here who really thought Melnyk likes to lose money every year to keep his current team intact under the PA's proposal.
The misguided support for the PA from my fellow Sens fans is based on selfishness and misapprehension. Personally, I know that the Sens are managed so well they'll succeed under any system and would rather see a system that benefits the majority of the teams in the league and rewards brains rather than bucks.

SENSible1* is offline  
Old
12-13-2004, 11:07 AM
  #18
hockeytown9321
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,343
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by scaredsensfan
Can someone tell me why the players decertifying and in turn destroying the league to the ground is not some big threat?
Another of my favorite arguments. Sure the lower end guys will end up being screwed but if you're worried about competitive balance, decertification aint the solution.

hockeytown9321 is offline  
Old
12-13-2004, 11:07 AM
  #19
YellHockey*
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,830
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper
That article should open some eyes here, especially those of those confused, young pro-PA Sens fans here who really thought Melnyk likes to lose money every year to keep his current team intact under the PA's proposal.
He spent a million dollars so that his wife could watch her favourite band at the Corel Centre. Or so he claimed.

I always perceived it as a attempt to increase the season ticket base.

The SEC doesn't believe what he says and neither do I.

YellHockey* is offline  
Old
12-13-2004, 11:11 AM
  #20
YellHockey*
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,830
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeytown9321
Another of my favorite arguments. Sure the lower end guys will end up being screwed but if you're worried about competitive balance, decertification aint the solution.
But it isn't the fans decision. It's the owners actions that would drive the players to do this.

People who talk about the players decertifying don't do it in the hopes it happens. It's just that it is the next logical step for the players to take when dealing with an unreasonable opponent.

I honestly believe that the players decertifying would be horrible for competitive balance due to the revenue inequities amongst teams. But that's what could happen if the ignorant masses continue to hope for the owners to lockout the players for years.

YellHockey* is offline  
Old
12-13-2004, 11:11 AM
  #21
Benji Frank
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,646
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DementedReality
i think its pretty clear they will not accept it. they will not accept until the players agree to cost certainty. where have you been ?

oh well, hope you all are happy when we get it. you will deserve what you get too.

lol, say hello to the era of NYR, TOR and STL finally having a chance to win.

dr
I don't think anywhere have I argued in favour of cost certainty, unless there's an opportunity for huge revenue sharing ... which isn't possible in today's gate driven NHL. As for my query, the owners have actually had an offer in their hands for going on five days now ... which has not been formally rejected. Granted, they won't likely accept it, but the fact they're actually preparing a counter-proposal is further along then in the fall when the players offered a simular - albeit with a little less teeth - proposal to what they presented Thursday.

As to where I've been, I was at my sons hockey game yesturday morning then I went to my daughter's dance class X-Mas party with Santa, then last night I had to go into the office to get a bit of a head start on this week!! I also stopped by my parents to refill their BBQ propane tank and fix a hinge on one of their closet doors ... but that was Saturday during what was supposed to be HNIC night!!!! How about you DR?? Where have you been???

Benji Frank is offline  
Old
12-13-2004, 11:17 AM
  #22
hockeytown9321
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,343
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRedGold
But it isn't the fans decision. It's the owners actions that would drive the players to do this.

People who talk about the players decertifying don't do it in the hopes it happens. It's just that it is the next logical step for the players to take when dealing with an unreasonable opponent.

I honestly believe that the players decertifying would be horrible for competitive balance due to the revenue inequities amongst teams. But that's what could happen if the ignorant masses continue to hope for the owners to lockout the players for years.
To be fair, some of the posters here do hope the PA decertifies. And if you listen to them, the PA might as well because they have no bargaining power anyway.

And yes, decertification would be terrible for the small market teams. I don't know why thats so hard for some to grasp.

hockeytown9321 is offline  
Old
12-13-2004, 11:21 AM
  #23
SENSible1*
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,543
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by shakes
They need competent leadership to know when to give in to a bully? I will never understand why some of you think that total capitulation by the NHLPA is the only way. Maybe you wish that we could go back to the "good old days" where the owners made all the money and the players got paid a pittance? Or how about the same salary structure as the CFL...
The PA needed to know that they were in a fight with no exit strategy. Better to lose this round on your terms and return to fight again, than sticking your fingers in your ears and then panicking when the chips are down.

Goodenow should be shown the door right now for the way he has handled this whole process.

SENSible1* is offline  
Old
12-13-2004, 11:25 AM
  #24
Taranis_24
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 655
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Taranis_24
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRedGold
People who talk about the players decertifying don't do it in the hopes it happens. It's just that it is the next logical step for the players to take when dealing with an unreasonable opponent.

BRG - Don't you think it's both sides that are unreasonable? You can't always complain that the NHL is unreasonable because it will not give into NHLPA demands in fact. The NHLPA is doing the same thing by not giving into the NHL demands. An unreasonable opponent vs an unreasonable opponent.

Taranis_24 is offline  
Old
12-13-2004, 11:26 AM
  #25
Lanny MacDonald*
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Tuvalu
Posts: 4,457
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by scaredsensfan
Can someone tell me why the players decertifying and in turn destroying the league to the ground is not some big threat?
Because its a joke? Who cares if the players decertify. Who really cares? What are they going to do? Go to Europe and play for thousands of dollars rather than millions? Play in the AHL for even less? Maybe start an European Super league where the buildings aren't large enough to sustain the money demands the players have? Oh wait, I know, they're going to start their own league! And how are they going to do this?

Where are they going to play? They have to play in markets that are hockey markets. The NHL owners already own all those buildings. Maybe they can build their own buildings? Okay, feel free to cough up the $6 billion dollars to build the 24 arenas capable of sustaining the salary levels the players want. Now try and promote this new league. Try and convince the fans to come and watch you play at $250 a ticket to pay for your salaries and the money it takes to pay for the mortgages on the buildings. That doesn't even include the development and organzational costs that would be required and the expertise to run the teams.

Players decertifying would be a god send to the league. That would essentially bust the union and at that point it is every man for themselves. You would see players crossing the lines so fast ot would make your head spin. The players best bet is to understand the challeneges that the owners face and just how lucky they are to make the money they do assuming no risk other than their physical well being.

Lanny MacDonald* is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:41 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.