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Old
09-16-2012, 02:44 AM
  #1
MiniMoose
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Lockout in Effect

Quote:
The NHL's collective bargaining agreement expired at Midnight et on Saturday night and with no significant progress on a new deal, the players have been officially locked out.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=405400

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Old
09-16-2012, 03:30 AM
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DeputyMcLaren
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Boooooo

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Old
09-16-2012, 10:34 AM
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Old
09-16-2012, 10:42 AM
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I honestly can't believe the league allowed this to happen. Again.

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09-16-2012, 10:46 AM
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There's already a thread open.

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Old
09-16-2012, 10:54 AM
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Thee Implication
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So is this 100% a full year of no hockey? Or do we not know yet?

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09-16-2012, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BleedsToronto View Post
So is this 100% a full year of no hockey? Or do we not know yet?
There will be a point in the season where it just doesn't make sense to play anymore games (less than 50) and I assume that's when the season will be written off.

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Old
09-16-2012, 11:15 AM
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From the general non-chalauntness both sides have shown so far during these negotiations, its not looking like NHL hockey is coming anytime soon to me.

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09-16-2012, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
From the general non-chalauntness both sides have shown so far during these negotiations, its not looking like NHL hockey is coming anytime soon to me.
They are putting far too much faith in their 'casual fans' returning.

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09-16-2012, 12:30 PM
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Daisy Joy
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This is so dangerous. They JUST recovered from the last one and they lock out again? This is the stupidest thing they could have done to the game. They could have played under the the old agreement/no agreement. They should have. They can't afford to have the game lock out for the entire year again.

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09-16-2012, 12:40 PM
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There's no way this one will take out the whole season. Neither side will allow it to get to the point of mutual destruction. The issues aren't so extreme this time. Last time it was cap or fold.

The owners need to acknowledge that they won the last round and listen to the players ideas by somehow incorporating some of them and the players need to realize that the owners will not accept a deal that does not ensure parity and sustainability for the small market teams.

Surely a compromise can be had. Until the players come down to the point where the owners can feel confident that the majority of the organizations won't be going broke, then the lockout will continue. 57% of revenues were all fine and good back when the Canadian dollar was 75cents, the price for oil was less than $60 per barrel and the US economy wasn't stagnating.

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Old
09-16-2012, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daisy Joy View Post
This is so dangerous. They JUST recovered from the last one and they lock out again? This is the stupidest thing they could have done to the game. They could have played under the the old agreement/no agreement. They should have. They can't afford to have the game lock out for the entire year again.
There's no way any professional sports league will ever play without a CBA in place ever again. Don't buy into that rhetoric, it's not feasible or realistic in any way to play without a deal in place. We can all thank Fehr for that.

The part that frustrates me is that as Leaf fans we're being screwed over the most by this ongoing dispute. The Leafs subsidize the majority of the League and are essentially the principal reason for the revenue gap between the teams. We have no need for a cap whatsoever and are the ONLY team in the past 7 years that had absolutely no benefit from this whole thing.

Whatever happens with this CBA I want only one thing and that is the Leafs get a big frickin bone thrown at them. Big revenue teams need a way to go over the cap. We lose a bit of parity but the League will be more stable in the face of growing revenues in large markets and stagnating revenues in small markets.

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Old
09-16-2012, 12:59 PM
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Daisy Joy
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What do you mean we can thank Fehr for that? (sorry, I'm slow)

Well maybe they can't,but they could have then played under the old one. Or something. But they shouldn't have locked out end of story.

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Old
09-16-2012, 01:05 PM
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rojac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinzler View Post
There's no way any professional sports league will ever play without a CBA in place ever again. Don't buy into that rhetoric, it's not feasible or realistic in any way to play without a deal in place. We can all thank Fehr for that.
Well, it always was a silly gamble.

Quote:
The part that frustrates me is that as Leaf fans we're being screwed over the most by this ongoing dispute. The Leafs subsidize the majority of the League and are essentially the principal reason for the revenue gap between the teams. We have no need for a cap whatsoever and are the ONLY team in the past 7 years that had absolutely no benefit from this whole thing.
Subsidize the majority of the league? Nice bit of hyperbole there. I believe the Leafs only pay about 10-20 million in revenue sharing (but I could be wrong) and the majority of the league does not collect revenue sharing.

As for benefits, that depends on how you look at it. I wouldn't be surprised if salaries + revenue sharing is lower than what the Leafs would have been paying in salaries if no cap was in place and pre-2004/05 salary trends had continued. So, it's very possible, that the Leafs are making more money because of the cap. Sounds like a benefit to me.

Quote:
Whatever happens with this CBA I want only one thing and that is the Leafs get a big frickin bone thrown at them. Big revenue teams need a way to go over the cap. We lose a bit of parity but the League will be more stable in the face of growing revenues in large markets and stagnating revenues in small markets.
Pretty sure that is not going to happen.

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Old
09-16-2012, 01:14 PM
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blasted_Sabre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
From the general non-chalauntness both sides have shown so far during these negotiations, its not looking like NHL hockey is coming anytime soon to me.
In part because no one is losing any money yet. Owners dont lose money for another 10 days or so (until the first pre-season game) and players dont lose money until the regular season. Theres almost no reason to hurry ATM.

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Old
09-16-2012, 01:18 PM
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I don't think I have ever felt as negatively towards a sports commissioner as I feel about Badtman. Never saw a leader with so little passion for the fans or the sport itself. Wish the guy was running an asbestos plant, something appropriate to his nature.

The worse he gets, the stronger a position (and payday) he holds with those owners. They all want the players to pay for the large paydays they are flinging at the players.

A plague on their houses.

When does curling start?

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Old
09-16-2012, 01:19 PM
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Kessely Snipes
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This is terrible anytime, but it would happen the year we were having Winter Classic and getting 24/7.

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Old
09-16-2012, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BleedsToronto View Post
So is this 100% a full year of no hockey? Or do we not know yet?
Last time the season was cancelled, it became official on February 15th 2005.
Basically we have 152 Days or 21 Weeks and 5 Days until that same amount of time passes. Let the countdown begin!

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Old
09-16-2012, 03:44 PM
  #19
Brozak
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What I don't understand is why they leave this garbage to the last minute? Scrambling to get a deal in place before a fake deadline. So childish.

**** you Bettman and the NHL.

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09-16-2012, 03:45 PM
  #20
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This is like having your own child without having to go through the whole pregnancy thing. I can reach the light at the end of the tunnel, without having to actually go through the darkness. I can get a top-five pick, without having to lose all season for it. I can get rid of Lombardi, Connolly, etc. without having to do anything.

Good for the Leafs, horrible for hockey.

The only bad thing is that players don't usually attend camp until a week later, so although they are technically ''locked-out'', they aren't locked out from anything. This means they have potentially a week left to work out on a deal.

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Old
09-16-2012, 03:49 PM
  #21
calcal798
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Bettman should just quit. Three lockouts in three attempts. Get it together there bud.

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Old
09-16-2012, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daisy Joy View Post
This is so dangerous. They JUST recovered from the last one and they lock out again? This is the stupidest thing they could have done to the game.
Yup.

The finally recover, they get a hugely important city to win a cup, and they start making a great deal of progress and they seem intent to totally piss all over that.

It'll probably have no long-term negative impacts in Canada, but it'll only help the league be more irrelevant in struggling markets.

Look at this analysis of ESPN SportsCenter from last week:
http://deadspin.com/5942670/bristolm...giants+cowboys
0% coverage of the NHL (yes I know its off-season, but it was about to be a lockout during that time frame and they don't even get mentioned), and from the timespan between Jan 7-Sep6, the NHL comprised less than 4% of the show's coverage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vamonos Pest View Post
What I don't understand is why they leave this garbage to the last minute? Scrambling to get a deal in place before a fake deadline. So childish.

**** you Bettman and the NHL.
Its last minute like most management/labour disputes; both sides feel the other will cave in at the eleventh hour rather than making a concession at a earlier time.

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Old
09-16-2012, 04:11 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calcal798 View Post
Bettman should just quit. Three lockouts in three attempts. Get it together there bud.
Why Bettman, this is bigger than him?

LOL, are you aware the teams voted 29-0 to lock-out?

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Old
09-16-2012, 04:34 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vamonos Pest View Post
What I don't understand is why they leave this garbage to the last minute? Scrambling to get a deal in place before a fake deadline. So childish.

**** you Bettman and the NHL.

You're cursing Bettman and the NHL yet they've been trying to work out a new deal for 3 years, it
s the NHLPA to thank for last minute scrambling.

Make sure to do some homework before propagating nonsense and lies.


NHL/NHLPA signed a 5 year CBA after the lockout, the NHLPA had the option to extend the contract for each of the last 2 seasons, and they used that right. The owners acted liked adults, and withheld their end of the contract. But were requesting new CBA talks well in advance to this summer, this year, or this season.


I find it embarrassing that there is suddenly talks of "4 lockouts in 20 years", there was a shortened season and a lost season, the other 2 did not result in a negative impact for fans. Fehr's reference to MLB is scary, that league is horrible and unbalanced to the point of being a farce - not something I'd push to fans.
--------

I also feel the need to comment regarding " owners should stop signing players to stupid contracts if they don't want to pay the players so much". I'll start by saying how I could see, if you knew NOTHING about the CBA you could believe in what you've said above, however in actual fact it doesn't matter what the owners sign the players too, the players are entitled (by legal contract) to 57% of league revenue. 57% of the projected league revenue = the salary cap.
I'll say that another way incase anyone misses the point - If every single team spent to the cap, that would be what the owner HAVE TO PAY the NHLPA.
Not spending to the cap does not save the NHL money - players share the unspent money based on the average annual value (AAV) of their current contract. I do not recall the exact numbers, but i believe Sidney Crosby received his $8.7M + $900k which was share to the unspent revenue. Ryan Kesler got his $4M + $425k.

The CBA dictates how much the owners are required to pay the players.


--------------------

I feel like this requires much more detail then most fans want to ***** about, but loving the game and disliking how a rat/nerdy looking commissioner talks doesn't make you informed. It's akin to Zach Parise saying he's owned 100M and no-roll back as that's not what he and Craig Leopold agreed on -> that right to a 1:1 contract is what HE CHOSE TO GIVE UP (all players) by joining the union (NHLPA), individual contracts on a union worksite are governed through the CBA, not between the individual and the owner.

-----------------

Final note, no doubt the players union didn't want a cap going into the previous CBA talks; but saying they lost talks would be incorrect. They're prospering more then ever, with safer work conditions, MUCH higher average salary, etc. They'd also love to continue operating under the current system. That is not true of the owners, and if they were making hundreds of millions of dollars, they'd not be stopping to get a few more (the math doesn't work) FWICT, they want 7%, over a 5 year deal that stops being an increase after half a lost season (82x.07 = 6 games, + playoffs, x 5 seasons = 30 games + playoffs) -- unless of course they're not actually making money currently, in which case the wait is actually akin to NOT a loss of money. Please do not remove this comment from context, I have no doubt there are teams making money, but league revenue is not distributed evenly and it will never be (nor should it ever be). Currently we have too many teams losing money by owing players 57% of their revenue, before paying coaching staffs, building fees, gear, doctors, travel, insurance, advertising or league management ( incase math is the issues, that's all paid for with 43%), IMO that is a lot of risk and WORK [not to be confused with hockey] for an organization if they are not profitable


The previous CBA they did improve the game by leaps and bounds. We're spoiled with the most competitive pro-sports league, 7 years with an effective cap = 7 different cup winners. 5 different president trophy winners. 12 of 14 unique teams in the cup finals, more than 1/2 the league has won their division since the cap has been in place. The NHL has created a level playing field for all teams, and the game is better for it. It's depressing that the leafs are the only team not to be in the playoffs since the cap system has been in place. Someone want to give Gary some credit for this?

(final, final note-> like everyone else, I find Gary Bettman super annoying, his voice, how he looks, how he talks. I agree he doesn't appear to 'love' the game, but logic tells me he's devoted a large part of his life to it, so going beyond the face value of the above, this is a guy who has made the game I love better. For that I can get past how he looks.)

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Old
09-16-2012, 04:40 PM
  #25
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facey, well done.

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