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Old
05-04-2012, 10:34 AM
  #26
vflawiess
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2 words, Vesa Toskala

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05-04-2012, 10:41 AM
  #27
The Beyonder
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I call it the leafs nation syndrome, in which we constantly have to a group of players to constantly belittle and harp on even though, or even if, they might be playing well... Hall Gill was one of those guys here. Hal Gill was great on the PK and was a serviceable defencemen when he was here.

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05-04-2012, 10:50 AM
  #28
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Playing in front of a good goalie makes everyone look good. Is there a "great" defense man out there that doesn't play in front of a great goalie? Tyler Myers' level of play coincides with the play of some other guy on his team, and that's just one example.

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05-04-2012, 10:55 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Anfernee Hardaway View Post
Playing in front of a good goalie makes everyone look good. Is there a "great" defense man out there that doesn't play in front of a great goalie? Tyler Myers' level of play coincides with the play of some other guy on his team, and that's just one example.
Detriot's biggest weakness for years was goaltending. But that guy with the C on his jersey still played pretty GREAT

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05-04-2012, 11:05 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by The Beyonder View Post
I call it the leafs nation syndrome, in which we constantly have to a group of players to constantly belittle and harp on even though, or even if, they might be playing well... Hall Gill was one of those guys here. Hal Gill was great on the PK and was a serviceable defencemen when he was here.
This is true, for the simple fact our coaching never catered to the player’s strengths and to compound the problem you have our media always harping on the player’s weaknesses making their confidence level drop.

Larry Murphy and Kris Versteeg were mentioned previously. Larry Murphy is the perfect example where he did well after leaving the Leafs coming in a Red Wings environment where he flourished without the media calling him out every other day. Kris Versteeg was not used properly by the Leafs or Flyers coaching staff and subsequently found his game in Florida.

No team is perfect, but with the Leafs Nation it compounded even more. You see Leafs fans key up Versteeg's Audi and it just shows this team, the fans, and the media has this obsession with forcing players to fail by asking them to be winners ALL the time.

It's like having hockey parents paying $5,000 per year for their kids to play hockey thinking it’s an "investment" in their child’s potential NHL career. These hockey parents try to nurture their kids to become great players but when failure happens these same parents turn on their kids forcing them to be better. These kids can't take the pressure and eventually quit hockey all together.

This is the same scenario for Leafs players where the investment is paying them millions per year and the expectation is to always be winners without support when things go wrong. Players are humans and they all need some form of support regardless of what the team pays their players. The Leafs, fans, and media need to get their head out of their arse and create an environment of accountability, but support when it is needed.

The media putting up headlines to trade Kessel is plain stupid and short sighted! Why would that even be a topic of discussion? In what other city would the media constantly call out their best players and advocate trading their best players? No wonder the Leafs perpetually fail when the fans and media jump down the Leafs players throats every other day.

Just watch, the Leafs will trade for a Luongo, or Nash, or whoever and at the start the media will call these players saviors. At the first sign of failure of that said player that was previously exalted, the fans and media will turn on the player running them out of Toronto. This perpetual cycle will never end and this is why some of the elite players don’t want to sign or waive their trade clauses to be with the Leafs.

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05-04-2012, 11:07 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by HellasLEAF View Post
You know, I've said for a long time that we as Leaf fans, because we watch every movement our players make on the ice, seam to pick apart their flaws and amplify them. Whereas we never really watch other teams's dmen and how they play all the time. We never see their faults, we just assume they are better.

Hall Gill comes to mind. Here is a player, that was if I recall correct, deemed a pylon by the end of his term here. Everywhere else though, he is an invaluable piece to the dcorps playing in important situations.

Why was he thought of as terrible here and amazing elsewhere. He's the same guy, doing the same thing. I think this applies to so many dmen that have come through the team over the years.
He was deemed a pylon here because most people here aren't very bright.

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05-04-2012, 11:22 AM
  #32
Joey Hoser
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Originally Posted by NaiveLeafsFan View Post
He was never a top pairing defenceman and should never have been put into that situation in the first place.
I'm not sure what exactly you mean by "top pairing defenceman", but I would think that leading a Cup winning team in minutes played in the playoffs should qualify, no?

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05-04-2012, 12:30 PM
  #33
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CUJO CU JO CU JO CU JO CU JO CU JO CU JO CUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO i remember them chanting this and i could feel the heavy vibrations in my living room.... dont forget how scary it is to play in the ACC and to play as a leaf in general ..

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05-04-2012, 12:37 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by HellasLEAF View Post
You know, I've said for a long time that we as Leaf fans, because we watch every movement our players make on the ice, seam to pick apart their flaws and amplify them. Whereas we never really watch other teams's dmen and how they play all the time. We never see their faults, we just assume they are better.

Hall Gill comes to mind. Here is a player, that was if I recall correct, deemed a pylon by the end of his term here. Everywhere else though, he is an invaluable piece to the dcorps playing in important situations.

Why was he thought of as terrible here and amazing elsewhere. He's the same guy, doing the same thing. I think this applies to so many dmen that have come through the team over the years.
Because Gill was terrible here and amazing elsewhere, hope that clears it up.

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05-04-2012, 12:45 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by HellasLEAF View Post
You know, I've said for a long time that we as Leaf fans, because we watch every movement our players make on the ice, seam to pick apart their flaws and amplify them. Whereas we never really watch other teams's dmen and how they play all the time. We never see their faults, we just assume they are better.

Hall Gill comes to mind. Here is a player, that was if I recall correct, deemed a pylon by the end of his term here. Everywhere else though, he is an invaluable piece to the dcorps playing in important situations.

Why was he thought of as terrible here and amazing elsewhere. He's the same guy, doing the same thing. I think this applies to so many dmen that have come through the team over the years.


It is called the giant glass bubble that the Leafs live in. They can't take a **** without someone commenting on the odor.

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05-04-2012, 12:47 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by The Beyonder View Post
I call it the leafs nation syndrome, in which we constantly have to a group of players to constantly belittle and harp on even though, or even if, they might be playing well... Hall Gill was one of those guys here. Hal Gill was great on the PK and was a serviceable defencemen when he was here.
Give me a break - Hal Gill turned like a ****ing battleship when he played for the Leafs. Somehow he learned how to skate properly once he left.

But really, who cares? A player was **** when he was a Leaf, and was good elsewhere. Dmitry Khristich if I remember correctly was pretty much the same. On the opposite side of the spectrum, Grabovski was once a poisonous cancer not fit for NHL duty, and has flourished in the lively Toronto market.

People are upset because we all though Gill was garbage when he was here, happy when he was traded, and then he became a better player? Good for him, I say.

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05-04-2012, 01:57 PM
  #37
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People forget a lot of stuff. People were ready to run him out of town before he even played a game here. But yeh, it's because he got better AFTER he left. Most people didn't even give him a chance.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...light=hal+gill


Oh and Larry Murphy? He was good BEFORE he got here... For 15 years before he joined the Leafs. That guy was run out of town plain and simple.

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05-04-2012, 02:13 PM
  #38
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Detriot's biggest weakness for years was goaltending. But that guy with the C on his jersey still played pretty GREAT
They had good goaltending.

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05-04-2012, 02:23 PM
  #39
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UFA contract to the leafs= Kiss of death. He had good point totals which tells you he was trying to do too much.

Besides Cujo and Belfour, I am trying to recall a UFA who did well in year one with the leafs.

Edit...just remembered Mac as well.

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05-04-2012, 02:48 PM
  #40
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If i remember correctly, it was Boston fans that deemed Gill a pylon before he came to us, and he surprised Leaf fans with some very solid play. This was one of the better JFJ moves out there.

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05-04-2012, 03:50 PM
  #41
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Hal Gill as a playoff player is exponentially better than Hal Gill the regular season player. For some reason he always 'brings it' for the playoffs.

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05-04-2012, 04:14 PM
  #42
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Hal Gill is a PK monster. We could have really used him this year.

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05-04-2012, 04:16 PM
  #43
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Hal Gill as a playoff player is exponentially better than Hal Gill the regular season player. For some reason he always 'brings it' for the playoffs.
Komisarek perhaps too?

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Old
05-04-2012, 04:19 PM
  #44
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I think it's the opposite, Leafs fans don't know what they're missing out on when they just watch Leafs games. Schenn isn't a shut down defenseman, just watch Girardi, Staal, Alzner and Carlson. That's shutdown defending...

I think this is exactly the mentality the OP refers to. Schenn is a card carrying elite shutdown D IN THE MAKING if handled correctly. I am CERTAIN that if traded, he takes a giant step forward in his development. He has taken a step back, but that doesn't mitigate the skill set or overall attributes of his game.

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05-04-2012, 04:42 PM
  #45
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I think this is exactly the mentality the OP refers to. Schenn is a card carrying elite shutdown D IN THE MAKING if handled correctly. I am CERTAIN that if traded, he takes a giant step forward in his development. He has taken a step back, but that doesn't mitigate the skill set or overall attributes of his game.
How is he an elite shutdown defenseman in the making when he's struggling on the third pairing? Isn't he falling away from that, by definition, since he's regressing? Also, I haven't seen too many defensemen with Schenn's skating deficiencies in the playoffs.

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05-04-2012, 04:43 PM
  #46
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How is he an elite shutdown defenseman in the making when he's struggling on the third pairing? Isn't he falling away from that, by definition, since he's regressing?
elite level players don't struggle?

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05-04-2012, 04:48 PM
  #47
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elite level players don't struggle?
When was he ever elite at anything? Just because you use that word and attach it to him doesn't mean he was ever elite. Promising? yes. Competent? yes. Good? yes. Elite? Never.

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05-04-2012, 04:51 PM
  #48
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List is endless. Beauchemin, Phaneuf, even Aulie.

I think that if used properly, even Komisarek is worth his contract. But that's for another day.

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05-04-2012, 05:02 PM
  #49
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elite level players don't struggle?
Elite level players need to know how to skate.

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05-04-2012, 05:15 PM
  #50
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They had good goaltending.
Prior to Mike Vernon they had terrible goaltending for years.

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