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Old
05-04-2012, 09:27 AM
  #76
Kaoz
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Originally Posted by Hartford Mike View Post
Fire CJ and bring back Lewis.

I kid, I kid.
Remember that episode of family guy where everyone vomits uncontrollably for 5 minutes? It wasn't ipecac they used... someone said this.

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05-04-2012, 09:29 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fopppa View Post
I wouldn't read too much into that. ...This announcement just gives them space to do as they wish.
By the same token, I wouldn't try to over-parse or straight up ignore what they've said, either. While there is always a degree of gamesmanship regarding future plans and player strategy -- and like you said, if the right deal comes along you take it -- I believe they are pretty much letting the fans know what ownership's and management's expectations truly are for this team: as constructed, the current roster is still a viable contender and they expect it to make a serious run for the cup next season, with few modifications. Fans should not expect much more than a few tweaks rather than a shakeup, more middle role players being picked up instead of big, elite acquisitions.

Sounds to me like only one or two moves out of the forward corps (bottom 6 at that) and the top 4-5 defensemen are probably going nowhere. I also think it's more likely Thomas stays as opposed to him being shopped and moved.

I'm OK with it.

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05-04-2012, 09:33 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by SPV View Post
With hope of not turning this into a fantasy trade thread. I'd have those two guys on my trade list as well. But the return would have to be pretty high end; something like a Patrick Kane +. But if they do move Thomas, I'd want them to sign a competent back-up goaltender in case Rask falters or gets hurt.
Agreed. I'm not advocating just giving Krecji away. We wouldn't have to. He's got perceived value and will garner a solid return.

As Kaoz astutely pointed out herein, Thomas, being in the last year of his contract w/expring NTC and Khudobin in wings, combined with his likely decline due to age, point to his departure. I think Rask/Khudobin might be enough if we have significant upgrades on F and D that would provide us the offensive production and prevention of SOG even if coupled with goaltender shortcomings.

Yes, our inability to score goals on the PP is partly a coaching issue, but it's also a personnel issue. And PP production will be more more important than it ever has been in this paritized league going forward, IMO.

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05-04-2012, 09:36 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
No, but a load of it does. More then people seem willing to admit IMO.

This year he has a .923 sv pctg and 2.14 gaa. The Carolina series he had even better then that, and they STILL lost...

It took his record breaking .940 sv pctg and sub 2.00 average to win the Cup, again, in TWENTY FIVE games...
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
There is two things that really concern me with the mindset here..

1. Rask is a given to step in and give comparable Thomas like play-off goaltending.

2. After the past 4 postseasons, people don't see the lack of consistent goal scoring as an issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by patty59 View Post
1. Agree, not sure why people think he can fill those shoes.

2. Don't agree, the past 4 post seasons can't really be compared IMO, too many changes have occurred and the Bruins scored a pile of goals last year in the playoffs. They need to get the PP going, as much as a top tier scoring winger would help, I believe they have the personnel already to have a potent PP just the wrong set up.


That said, I would be head over heals if the Bruins got Iginla.
Lou (and Patty), I get it.

You don't think that Rask is a given to do what Thomas did last year in the playoffs (or even this year, I guess?). I will tell you what, that may be true, but I don't think at age 38-39, that Tim Thomas going forward is going to do what he did last year, or two years before that.

Rask's regular season stats were better than TT's this year, and you can say whatever you like about Thomas' stats against the Caps, but he was not great from where I was standing. He pretty much single-handedly was responsible for the B's pivotal Game 5 loss, giving up 3 bad goals in a game in which BOS outplayed the opposition.

The primary reason for the stellar looking playoff numbers from TT was because WAS was not generating a ton of quality scoring chances, and was content to play for 1 goal games....not because he was outstanding. I'm not saying the B's should jettison Thomas for a bag of pucks. If they cannot get fair value for him, I have no problem keeping him, but I think Rask should get every opportunity to start.

It may be foolish to think it's a given Rask can step in and be a Vezina caliber goalie, but it's just as foolish to assume that Thomas will repeat his past successes as he gets older (esp after an average performance in 2011-12).

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Old
05-04-2012, 09:38 AM
  #80
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The PP sucked and the forwards just weren't "in the mood". If not for these, B's should have gone all the way to the ECFs this year, and possibly beyond. Getting a 35 goal scorer won't address either of those issues. It would be a nice thing, but let's keep it in perspective. And let's also recognize Neely's statements for what they are: statements on the record, knowing full well that league-wide perception of the team's "neediness" is likely to color any negotiation.

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05-04-2012, 09:42 AM
  #81
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I wish somebody, ANYBODY, would ask him how the PP coach retains his position. I'm still baffled by this.

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05-04-2012, 09:43 AM
  #82
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Not sure burning the thing down one year removed from a championship is really a good idea. In that regard I agree with what Cam and PC are saying.

On the other hand, watching this team play it's obvious they lack something. Horton's injury proved to be a pretty big blow to the offense, Tuukka's definitely had a negative impact on the goaltending. Let's not forget about McQuaid either. That forced them to play guys that normally wouldn't play. And all that doesn't even touch the power-play.

They need to add another legit offensive forward and something on the back end. That something could be Hamilton, who knows. Those changes aren't giant so one could call them tweaks. I'd say anything other than messing with the true core is a tweak.

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05-04-2012, 09:44 AM
  #83
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Me I've got a candle burning for Evander Kane. Can you imagine a top 6 of Lucic-Krejci-Seguin and Marchand-Bergeron-Kane?

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05-04-2012, 09:44 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by GloryDaze4877 View Post
Lou (and Patty), I get it.

You don't think that Rask is a given to do what Thomas did last year in the playoffs (or even this year, I guess?). I will tell you what, that may be true, but I don't think at age 38-39, that Tim Thomas going forward is going to do what he did last year, or two years before that.

Rask's regular season stats were better than TT's this year, and you can say whatever you like about Thomas' stats against the Caps, but he was not great from where I was standing. He pretty much single-handedly was responsible for the B's pivotal Game 5 loss, giving up 3 bad goals in a game in which BOS outplayed the opposition.

The primary reason for the stellar looking playoff numbers from TT was because WAS was not generating a ton of quality scoring chances, and was content to play for 1 goal games....not because he was outstanding. I'm not saying the B's should jettison Thomas for a bag of pucks. If they cannot get fair value for him, I have no problem keeping him, but I think Rask should get every opportunity to start.

It may be foolish to think it's a given Rask can step in and be a Vezina caliber goalie, but it's just as foolish to assume that Thomas will repeat his past successes as he gets older (esp after an average performance in 2011-12).

Look who his starts were against, it has a lot to do with it. He's a good goalie, but he seems to have durability issues since he's been injured the last 2 seasons.

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05-04-2012, 09:45 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReal13Linseman View Post
A 39-40 yr. old goalie who still has value, but that window is rapidly closing. Last year, we saw the out-of-this-world Tim Thomas; this year, we saw what is the real Tim Thomas. Even his most ardent supporters would have to admit that his play this year was very good, but somewhat shaky at times, and at the end of the season, somewhat in decline. But, that's to be expected from a guy his age. The question of Rask is still out there, I agree. I find no comfort in his game or durability at this point, but I think that will be the case until he is made THE MAN. I think now is the time to do that.

As for DK, again, he's got a good skill set and good value, and yes, he was also out-of-this-world remarkable last year, but this year, both in the regular season and playoffs, he ranged from disappointing-to bad-to invisible. That said, he's got value and you have to give value to get value when you're talking players of his caliber. I'm fine with Seguin and Bergeron being our top two centers.

When I look at this team, those two guys are who I trade first.
Thomas is "only" 38 - he won't be 39 until next regular season is over. I also think the reason you might say that at the end of the season his game was in decline was more due to Rask's injury and Turco not instilling confidence in his ability to be even a serviceable backup. overwork, more than overage, was likely the real culprit. In this case, time truly will tell. I wouldn't count Thomas out just yet though.

I also wonder why simply making Rask THE MAN will be what give you comfort in his durability and his game. If anything, I'd be MORE worried about Rask's durability after a significant groin injury. Remember all the groin issues Ference had before his surgeries, and he's not relying on that muscle group as much as a goalie would need to. I'm not saying that he'll ever have another groin injury. But I don't see how being anointed the starter will alleviate any concerns about his long term durability. If anything, more games would make me more concerned about how he'll hold up.

All that said, I think you are right on with your assessment that you have to give value to get value. And as big a fan as I am of Thomas, if the right deal comes along, you make it. Same goes for Krejci, Lucic, Ference (my real binky), Peverly, or just about anyone. But I don't go out of my way to trade them. And I don't think Chia's looking to move anyone - but won't be averse to it if the right thing comes up.

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Old
05-04-2012, 09:47 AM
  #86
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I'm fine with returning the same group for the most part. I think it's absurd to think that Neely's comments indicate an unwillingness to kick the tires on guys like Suter, Parise, etc. But I think the price is going to be steep for both guys, and Neely's comments are more an indication that they'd be fine if they don't splurge on a UFA or two. Doesn't mean they won't inquire, but they don't NEED to hit a homerun in free agency.

My opinion...I think they make a trade or two.

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05-04-2012, 09:50 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Roll 4 Lines View Post
Me, I think having Seguin on the PP with frikken Poulliot and Rolston in Game 7 is a major problem in and of itself.
so do I.

Who made that decision for the Power Play.

Coach.

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05-04-2012, 09:52 AM
  #88
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Look who his starts were against, it has a lot to do with it. He's a good goalie, but he seems to have durability issues since he's been injured the last 2 seasons.
Do you really consider off-season maintenance surgery injured?

At some point Tuukka's gonna take over. Thomas will either be here to watch it, or someplace else.

Bob Beers has said there have been incidents other than the white house between Thomas and team (I assume front office) and they are prepared to move on.

Also, look at who's still playing. Other than Lundqvist and Brouduer it's kids and one journeymen in Bryzgalov.

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05-04-2012, 09:53 AM
  #89
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You're right, the CURRENT power play is clearly not getting it done. Having the go-to goal scorer could allow you to focus the PP around him. I think they could go hand in hand.
in the past two years we have had 30 goal guys on the PP.

Seguin 29
Lucic last year 30
Ryder - 3 30 goal seasons now


I don't see how Seguin, Lucic, marchand, Horton....ect can all score 5 on 5 but not on the PP. What happens on the PP that makes them less effective? That is coaching. I will not believe that they all of a sudden lose their ability to score when they go on the man advantage.

Again I am not against adding another guy that can put 30 in the net but I don't think that will have a major impact on the PP. minor fix sure major nope.

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05-04-2012, 09:54 AM
  #90
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I don't see the high end goal scorer that will fix the power play on the UFA market. Most here are saying they want to ADD a high end guy not replace one of our 20 goal guys for a high end guy. I want to know who this mysterious person is becuase looking at the UFA list I don't see him.

And no I don't think putting parise on the current power play changes anything. Maybe we got one more PP goal every 10 games or so but I don't see that being the fix.

Unless you are talking a stamkos or Crosby coming in I don't think the PP could be fixed by adding a player.
I agree that adding one player is not the answer to the PP woes, but it is a step in the right direction regarding the scoring woes.

PP is more of a system / right personnel grouping problem, not to mention this year it was a confidence issue with the players when they went on the PP. Maybe it was just a confidence issue with me!

That said, we all agree that the Bruins won last year with goaltending and scoring depth.

Adding a 25 goal scorer adds to the depth, allowing other players move into appropriate slots.

For instance, last year we all talked about how we had the best 3rd AND 4th lines in the league. Nobody mentioned that much this year, especially after Horton went down.

You add Horton back into the line-up, which improves the 1st line. Does the addition of Horton give us the best 1st line in the league? No, but now Peverly is back on the 3rd line improving that line. Add the right player with better offensive skills than Caron or Poulliot, and now that gives us the best 3rd line in the league, and Caron or Poo move down to strengthen the 4th line.

Now, in case of injury, players move up a slot and it's not such a severe blow.

It's not that a new addition is going to score a goal a game, it just makes the whole line-up stronger from top to bottom.


Last edited by Roll 4 Lines: 05-04-2012 at 10:07 AM.
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05-04-2012, 10:01 AM
  #91
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Do you really consider off-season maintenance surgery injured?

At some point Tuukka's gonna take over. Thomas will either be here to watch it, or someplace else.

Bob Beers has said there have been incidents other than the white house between Thomas and team (I assume front office) and they are prepared to move on.

Also, look at who's still playing. Other than Lundqvist and Brouduer it's kids and one journeymen in Bryzgalov.

I think it should be taken into consideration. Why shouldn't it be?

And you're probably right that Rask is going to take over at some point. I just don't know if that point is next season, or if it should be next season.

The Bruins have 2 goalies with NHL contracts for next year, neither one of those are Rask, so as likely as it is that Thomas is dealt, it could also be Rask heading out.

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05-04-2012, 10:04 AM
  #92
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Seems like an awfully risky proposition on managements part. I understand a cup win buys you some "safe" time, but with the disappointment of a first round exit will come greater expectations especially when the team has cap space and assets to get things done.
I agree. PC played it safe last off season, and why shouldn't he? They won the cup so why not keep the team almost the same. But i dont think he can follow that model this year. This team needs another scoring wing who can bury it when the team cant seem to (see Washington series). Now was Horton that player? We will never know, but why take the gamble and think he was the answer when he could very well miss a lot of the season next year. I was very pissed with Chia's "parity" comments. He was making excuses for the letdown and he didnt look good in my eyes.

This team needs another top 6 F, regardless of Horton's health. We know Parise is a pipe dream but he has to add someone, and not another Pouliot type. PC said he wants to add another top 9 forward, which kind of made me because that tells me he wants to add someone like Travis Moen or Paul Gaustad . This team is full of those types of players. I'm not saying for after Semin or someone of that caliber, but please not another 10 goal scorer grinder.

With all that said, im giving PC the benefit of the doubt and will wait and see what he does this off season before i judge him further.

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05-04-2012, 10:07 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Roll 4 Lines View Post
I agree that adding one player is not the answer to the PP woes, but it is a step in the right direction regarding the scoring woes.

PP is more of a system / right personnel grouping problem, not to mention this year it was a confidence issue with the players when they went on the PP. Maybe it was just a confidence issue with me!

That said, we all agree that the Bruins won last year with goaltending and scoring depth.

Adding a 25 goal scorer adds to the depth, allowing other players move into appropriate slots.

For instance, last year we all talked about how we had the best 3rd AND 4th lines in the league. Nobody mentioned that much this year, especially after Horton went down.

You add Horton back into the line-up, which improves the 1st line. Does the addition of Horton give us the best 1st line in the league? No, but now Peverly is back on the 3rd line improving that line. Add the right player with better offensive skills than Caron or Poulliot, and now that us the best 3rd line in the league, and Caron or Poo move down to strengthen the 4th line.

Now, in case of injury, players move up a slot and it's not such a severe blow.

It's not that a new addition is going to score a goal a game, it just makes the whole line-up stronger from top to bottom.
This is a great post; and, in classic, annoying HF fashion, I'm going to nitpick on one bolded point (mainly because it's been echoed often by others). We always talk about the role of scoring depth and goaltending in last year's Cup run; but what always seems to get left out of the formula is the shut-down D (specifically 33 & 44). That there is your Holy Trinity: goalie, scoring depth, and shut-down D.

That said, I am nitpicking, and your point about the lineup-wide effects of a winger upgrade is a good one.

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05-04-2012, 10:07 AM
  #94
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I think it should be taken into consideration. Why shouldn't it be?

And you're probably right that Rask is going to take over at some point. I just don't know if that point is next season, or if it should be next season.

The Bruins have 2 goalies with NHL contracts for next year, neither one of those are Rask, so as likely as it is that Thomas is dealt, it could also be Rask heading out.
So you keep the 38 year old with one year left before becoming a UFA? That's not very good asset management. Some team will throw a crap ton of money at him even if it's for only for a year or two. The Bruins would then be forced to match it or go with Khoddobin who at that point would have even less experience than Rask. You can't manage one season at a time.

Have you ever asked yourself why Rask took the hometown discount and has had no issue with his role to date?

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05-04-2012, 10:08 AM
  #95
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Look who his starts were against, it has a lot to do with it. He's a good goalie, but he seems to have durability issues since he's been injured the last 2 seasons.
As stick said, I would hardly consider the off-season maintenance to be a huge issue last year, and this year he was hurt on a fluke play because a puck got deflected by his own d-man, and he was put in a bad spot. Could just as easily have happened to Thomas.

As far as your claim that Rask only started against "bad" teams...I guess we will never know how he would have done against all the "good" teams, as he was not given the opportunity.

Bottom line is (and I have said this repeatedly), I don't give Thomas away and only deal him if they can get value. If he does stay, I think that Rask should be given every opportunity to win the starter's job, something that was not done this year or last imo.



ps maybe Rask should start doing yoga?

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05-04-2012, 10:10 AM
  #96
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This is a great post; and, in classic, annoying HF fashion, I'm going to nitpick on one bolded point (mainly because it's been echoed often by others). We always talk about the role of scoring depth and goaltending in last year's Cup run; but what always seems to get left out of the formula is the shut-down D (specifically 33 & 44). That there is your Holy Trinity: goalie, scoring depth, and shut-down D.

That said, I am nitpicking, and your point about the lineup-wide effects of a winger upgrade is a good one.
Point taken....I stand corrected!

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05-04-2012, 10:11 AM
  #97
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So you keep the 38 year old with one year left before becoming a UFA? That's not very good asset management. Some team will throw a crap ton of money at him even if it's for only for a year or two. The Bruins would then be forced to match it or go with Khoddobin who at that point would have even less experience than Rask. You can't manage one season at a time.

Have you ever asked yourself why Rask took the hometown discount and has had no issue with his role to date?
I'm not saying that I'm in favor of trading Rask, just that when you look at who they have signed and guaranteed to be here next season it should be considered as possible.

I'd like to keep Rask, but I'm not handing him the reigns next season, if it were up to me. But it's not, so I'll just sit back and see what happens.

We've seen a lot of young sure thing goalies come and go over the years. We've only seen one Tim Thomas though. Only one guy that has delivered the goods in my lifetime.

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05-04-2012, 10:12 AM
  #98
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As stick said, I would hardly consider the off-season maintenance to be a huge issue last year, and this year he was hurt on a fluke play because a puck got deflected by his own d-man, and he was put in a bad spot. Could just as easily have happened to Thomas.

As far as your claim that Rask only started against "bad" teams...I guess we will never know how he would have done against all the "good" teams, as he was not given the opportunity.

Bottom line is (and I have said this repeatedly), I don't give Thomas away and only deal him if they can get value. If he does stay, I think that Rask should be given every opportunity to win the starter's job, something that was not done this year or last imo.



ps maybe Rask should start doing yoga?
I'd expect Tuukka and TT to split the starts relatively evenly.

'Course, I said that last year!

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05-04-2012, 10:17 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Scotto74 View Post
in the past two years we have had 30 goal guys on the PP.

Seguin 29
Lucic last year 30
Ryder - 3 30 goal seasons now


I don't see how Seguin, Lucic, marchand, Horton....ect can all score 5 on 5 but not on the PP. What happens on the PP that makes them less effective? That is coaching. I will not believe that they all of a sudden lose their ability to score when they go on the man advantage.

Again I am not against adding another guy that can put 30 in the net but I don't think that will have a major impact on the PP. minor fix sure major nope.
How many of those came with Boston?

Part of the PP issue is the personnel they roll with, and part is the strategy they employ for it. Lucic, PB, Pevs, and DK were the top TOI forwards for the PP. Rolston got far more time on the PP than Marchand. Peverly getting a full minute more than Seguin is insane. Who's more likely to actually convert on a scoring chance, Seguin and Marchand, or Peverley, Lucic, and Bergeron?

The coaching piece comes into play when you look at how they set the PP up. The main goal I've seen is to funnel the puck back to the point because they want to get Chara (and the rest of the d) his shot from the point. It hasn't worked at all in the playoffs the last few years, so why do they keep doing it? Because they lack the sniper who A. Can actually bury a shot from the side boards, and B. Actually moves around without the puck to create passing lanes. Lucic, Horton, Pevs, and the rest of the guys getting the majority of PP TOI are stationary players who need the shot from the point to create a tip chance or rebound for them to hopefully jump on. They lack the needed skill of a guy who can create space by coming off the side wall and rip a shot. Seguin is the closest to that, but he's getting secondary PP minutes at best. It could be better and that is certainly coaching, but the reason the PP is stagnant isn't because of coaching. It's because they don't have the right type of player. Even if you look at Savard vs DK, it's night and day. DK is a creative passer but he can't make magic if nobody moves on the PP. Saddling him with stationary players like Lucic isn't going to work. Ever.

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05-04-2012, 10:18 AM
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patty59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GloryDaze4877 View Post
As stick said, I would hardly consider the off-season maintenance to be a huge issue last year, and this year he was hurt on a fluke play because a puck got deflected by his own d-man, and he was put in a bad spot. Could just as easily have happened to Thomas.

As far as your claim that Rask only started against "bad" teams...I guess we will never know how he would have done against all the "good" teams, as he was not given the opportunity.

Bottom line is (and I have said this repeatedly), I don't give Thomas away and only deal him if they can get value. If he does stay, I think that Rask should be given every opportunity to win the starter's job, something that was not done this year or last imo.



ps maybe Rask should start doing yoga?
Not sure why Thomas wouldn't have been the clear number one this year after the season he had?

As for last year, Rask never stood a chance, Thomas played lights out the entire year, how can you fault the coaching staff for making the obvious right choice considering the outcome?

Lots of people here have been discounting Thomas for ages and at the same time handing Rask the starters job. People were outraged that they signed Thomas to that deal because they thought Rask should have been the starter that year, when he was still in the AHL FFS and Thomas was coming off a Vezina year.

I'm not sure I'll ever understand not wanting to put your best goalie on the ice, even if it pisses off the 'goalie of the future'. I want wins and I don't care who is in net as long as they deliver. Thomas, Rask, the fat Russian guy I don't care. I personally think that Thomas is the best option.

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