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THN confirms having a shootout is a "done deal" when the NHL returns

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Old
12-13-2004, 04:19 PM
  #51
Lexicon Devil
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Quote:
Most hardcore hockey fans will watch no matter what.
It's never a good idea to upset your core customer base in the hope of maybe potentially attracting some new customers.

Sure, hardcore fans will still watch. But every time you piss them off it lowers their desire to pay good money to go the arena. I'd be willing to be that at least 75% of "hardcore hockey fans" are against this idea.

As I said, I will not watch a shootout. It's a moronic spectacle.

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12-13-2004, 04:21 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seven_Nation_Army
it has nothing to do with the team aspect!!, just cherry pickers
5 players and a goalie take part in a shootout which is incidently the amount of players a team normally puts on the ice at any other time. Its still going to be a team thing in a shoot out, 1 player cant win it by himself.

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12-13-2004, 04:22 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
And in related news, the NBA has announced that it will begin deciding tied games with free-throw shooting contests.

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12-13-2004, 04:24 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrash27
If a shootout is put in then they should change the point system.

Regulation
4 for winning
0 for losing

Overtime
3 for winning
1 for losing

Shootout
2 for win
1 for loss
Id go for:

3 for a regular win
2 for an OT win
2 for a shootout win
1 for an OT or shootout loss.

that way theres still an incentive to win it before OT without making the system too complicated.

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Old
12-13-2004, 04:26 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve L
5 players and a goalie take part in a shootout which is incidently the amount of players a team normally puts on the ice at any other time. Its still going to be a team thing in a shoot out, 1 player cant win it by himself.
good try but, no ... its 6 on 6 for most of the time in the NHL, 6 on 5 sometimes and 6 on 4, when a team is playing undisciplined ... 1 on 1 should hardly ever be used to DECIDE a game on a NIGHTLY basis, EVER

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12-13-2004, 04:27 PM
  #56
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3 points for a win
1 point for a tie

None of this overtime loser point. It makes absolutely zero sense to reward teams for tying after regulation time. "Congratuations on the tie guys! Here's an extra point for all your hard work!"

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Old
12-13-2004, 04:29 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
Historical statistical comparisons already mean squat.

And here we get to the heart of the problem. All you "purists" do not seem to grasp the fact hockey is *already* a mutated game. It has changed a great deal over time.

Shootouts are not a gimmick. Not anymore than the penalty shot. They've been there for a long time, it's just that the former is not currently used in the NHL.

Shootouts do not catter only to non-fans. Many hardcore fans (of which I am, and I AM a purist and respect the history of the NHL a great deal, not to mention I actually KNOW the history of the NHL unlike those who'd like to think it has always been the way it's being played in 2004) absolutely love the penalty shot.

The penalty shot is just a matter of taste. Some fans do not like it and want to go all high and mighty and PRETEND it's going to be a black eye on this great game when it's not. They'd like to think the NHL has always been this way but it's not the case.

There have been countless changes from equipment to training to techniques to strategies and to yes, rules. Such as penalties, how long they are and when they end.

As for claiming that skilled teams will play for the shootout, I don't know what that means exactly. Certainly not all skilled teams will do it. Certain teams will be advantaged. That's a layer of strategy. Is it different from the way the NHL plays right now.

NO.

Let me repeat: No.

Teams that are coached smartly always try to take advantage of the rules. Any rule in the NHL, any trends as far as calls, non-calls, etc. is taken advantage of. I have no problems with this particular layer of strategy. It's not like it's a gaping hole that will result in very boring games. We're talking about regular season here, not playoffs hockey.

It will affect a very little number of games and statistically, as Epsilon said, it should not result in earth shattering changes in the dynamic of the league.

You're telling me they'll go for a shootout instead of going for overtime... that isn't really accurate. Like all teams, they'll try to finish this off in regulation. Hockey is played safe these days anyway, with or without shootoutsm with or without the current OT format.

It has plenty of relation to the game itself. You've got a guy, with a puck and he tries to score on the goalie. He's not breakdancing on skates for crying out loud. Are we going to freak out when a penalty shot is taken too? Does this have any relation to the game?

Oh, that's right. Nobody minds the penalty shot because you grew up with penalty shots. Right? So it doesn't mess the pseudo-integrity. Sorry, I don't really buy all this stuff.

The statistical anomalies I don't see as a big deal, sorry.

The only thing where I can say you have a point is when you say you like a tie and can deal with a game ending as a tie. A simple matter of preference and nothing to do with the integrity of the game, which will be damn fine with or without this rule.

I completely agree with you that it shouldn't be a band aid however. Yes, I agree they can improve the flow of the game and should do so. That might require just calling the rulebook as it is or perhaps more changes to the game. Personally, I like many of Shanahan's suggestions and feel they would respect the integrity of the game (more than many of Campbells' ideas, like the horrible idea to prevent goalies from handling the puck).


Grrrreat post

 
Old
12-13-2004, 04:31 PM
  #58
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I like it...excoting and puts ur 5 best players vs the goalie and it's only for the season so when it really matters(playoffs) it won't be there so I don't mind.

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Old
12-13-2004, 04:32 PM
  #59
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thats not bad

it depends on points syten anyways

1 point each going to ot and 1 point for ot winner if they win by the shoot out

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12-13-2004, 04:46 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrash27
If a shootout is put in then they should change the point system.

Regulation
4 for winning
0 for losing

Overtime
3 for winning
1 for losing

Shootout
2 for win
1 for loss
And as a promotional tie-in, all NHL teams can offer their fans a free abacus and pocket calculator at the entrance to the arena, as both will be needed to follow the standings.

Why do we insist on making the simple so complicated? Drop the puck, play 60 minutes and then go home. Two for a win, one for a tie. Save OT for the playoffs.

Funny, it worked well for 50+ years.

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Old
12-13-2004, 05:00 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
And as a promotional tie-in, all NHL teams can offer their fans a free abacus and pocket calculator at the entrance to the arena, as both will be needed to follow the standings.

Why do we insist on making the simple so complicated? Drop the puck, play 60 minutes and then go home. Two for a win, one for a tie. Save OT for the playoffs.

Funny, it worked well for 50+ years.
QFA

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Old
12-13-2004, 05:00 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexicon Devil
Am I the only one that doesn't even find shootouts particularly exciting?

Wait
Wait
Wait
Save
Wait
Wait
Wait
Save

Gee. Fun stuff. A regular breakaway is 10 times more exciting than a penalty shot/shootout. A well executed powerplay is 100 times more exciting than a penalty shot/shootout.

I want to throw up every time I hear the penalty shot described as "the most exciting play in hockey". Far from it.

There is no difference between a shootout and a breakaway. If there's a breakaway, chances are good there's no defensemen around, just like in the shootout, so that argument to me makes no sense. Also, what does the powerplay have to do with anything. This will make the games more "edge-of-your-seat" instead of 5 minutes of overtime.

I personally think it's a good idea. The hardcore fans like us can't support the NHL forever. It needs to expand its fan base a lot to be honest. This is the way they should do it.

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Old
12-13-2004, 05:02 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
And in related news, the NBA has announced that it will begin deciding tied games with free-throw shooting contests.
There are tie games in basketball?

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Old
12-13-2004, 05:02 PM
  #64
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You all have it WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!!

my solution makes much more sense.


At the end of the tied game,several dozen small kids and their adorable puppies and kittens (who doesn't love puppies & kittens??) come onto the ice. To make it even more fun, the kids will be blindfolded. The kids and their pets will then cavort around the arena, much to the amusement of the crowd.

After five minutes of crazy fun, all pet poo-poo will be counted on each side of the red-line. Team with the most poo on their side is the winner

Now that would be fun, fun, fun. Actually, why bother even having all those big sweaty men get dressed in their hockey gear in the first place?? Why not have the kids and their adorable pets REPLACE the old smelly hockey game???

And think of some of the promotional ideas. You could have "REd hot chili & baked beans for the pets" night, or "Bring your own poo to fling on the ice" night. Sounds yummy!!!!

THERE IS ABOUT AS MUCH CHANCE OF ME WATCHING THE AFOREMENTIONED AS THERE IS ME WATCHING AN NHL SHOOTOUT.

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Old
12-13-2004, 05:04 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voodoo
There are tie games in basketball?

Yes, those are the games that have an (ot) after them.

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12-13-2004, 05:05 PM
  #66
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As a higher level competitive hockey player myself, I think it sucks. After watching the local UHL team take games into OT every other night, the shootout novelty wore off real quick. If worst comes to worse, why not adopt an amateur tournament style OT of 5 minutes of 5 on 5, then 3 minutes of 4 on 4, then 2 minutes of 3 on 3 and if the game is still knotted at equal, then it ends a tie.

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12-13-2004, 05:05 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Bucky
Yes, those are the games that have an (ot) after them.
No, those are games that are decided in overtimes. Not tie games.

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Old
12-13-2004, 05:09 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruins4Ever
There is no difference between a shootout and a breakaway. If there's a breakaway, chances are good there's no defensemen around, just like in the shootout, so that argument to me makes no sense. Also, what does the powerplay have to do with anything. This will make the games more "edge-of-your-seat" instead of 5 minutes of overtime.

I personally think it's a good idea. The hardcore fans like us can't support the NHL forever. It needs to expand its fan base a lot to be honest. This is the way they should do it.

See, this is what I don't get. Why can't the hardcore fans support the game?? What's wrong with leaving the game the way it's been enjoyed for over a hundred years??? I've said before, NASCSAR would thrill me if they added a sniper who shot out tires at random. You'd never get me away from the television. I'd probably watch the NBA if someone beating up a fan was COMPULSORY every game. Hell, I would even watch golf on tv if they had a bikini model tease the players as they went for the putt..

Do I expect any of those things to happen so that I can enjoy those sports?? Of course I don't. Those sports have millions of fans who enjoy them JUST THE WAY THEY ARE. Trying to convert me shouldn't be on their agenda, if I can't enjoy the thrill of race cars at 200mph, that's my loss. To my way of thinking, trying to make people like this sport hasn't improved the game much so far....

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Old
12-13-2004, 05:10 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voodoo
No, those are games that are decided in overtimes. Not tie games.

Until the overtime changes them they are tie games. If they switched to a free-throw contest or greased-pig scramble, the (ot) would be replaced....

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12-13-2004, 05:12 PM
  #70
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People who argue about the fact that the NBA AND MLB doesn't do Dunk contest or Home Run Derby's don't know the sports quite well....It's easy to score in OVERTIME AND win the game ESPECIALLY IN THE NBA!!!! ..it's not as hard to score as it is in hockey where defensive games can go on forever if it wouldn't be stopped after the 5 min overtime...Tie Games are very like "you know wtv" ...I want to jump up and down when Mike Ribeiro shakes the pants off the goaltender or when Jose Theodore puts his leg up in the last second to get us another point.

It displays the best 5 "offensive" players vs your goaltender(usually the best)
and all teams, or almost all teams have 5 capable players to score goals. It also is a time when a player can display their skills "under pressure" and it's also good for the players because if they do good on the shootouts then it's something else to add when you are arguing for a raise..

FIFA WORLD CUP OF SOCCER....EURO CUP....ASIAN CUP....YOU NAME IT...FIFA .. Soccer or otherwise known as football is the most watched sports in the world, call it weak, stupid sport, call it wtv you want but it's a fact that it's the most popular sport around the planet and people watch even if they're team isn't playing... and yes they do have shootouts even in the BIG EVENTS like the WORLD CUP... and Soccer is also like a hockey , if not even more of a team sport.....

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12-13-2004, 05:13 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsjohn
They should abandon the point system all together and just go by wins and losses.
Nah, if they really want to make the game more "exciting" they might as well go all the way: just base the standings on total goals scored and nothing else. If every game ends 15-12, that'll bring the fans in, right?

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12-13-2004, 05:13 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
Historical statistical comparisons already mean squat.
When Detroit was chasing Montreal's single-season record for wins in 1996, that was a pretty significant event. People cared about it, so it definitely doesn't 'mean squat'. The NHL's record book is important, and having a degree of consistency in the framework in which records are set is important. The messing around that started with the OTL and continues here voids everything.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
And here we get to the heart of the problem. All you "purists" do not seem to grasp the fact hockey is *already* a mutated game. It has changed a great deal over time.

Aside from a longer schedule, and the recent changes to the overtime format, how has the game mutated since 1945? There have been small tinkerings - penalty ends on a PP goal, 4-on-4 play goes and comes back, touch-up offside - but these are small and don't really change the framework of the game.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
Shootouts are not a gimmick. Not anymore than the penalty shot. They've been there for a long time, it's just that the former is not currently used in the NHL.

Shootouts do not catter only to non-fans. Many hardcore fans (of which I am, and I AM a purist and respect the history of the NHL a great deal, not to mention I actually KNOW the history of the NHL unlike those who'd like to think it has always been the way it's being played in 2004) absolutely love the penalty shot.

The penalty shot is just a matter of taste. Some fans do not like it and want to go all high and mighty and PRETEND it's going to be a black eye on this great game when it's not. They'd like to think the NHL has always been this way but it's not the case.

I like penalty shots, in their proper context. When they are awarded in game play, they have a meaning. They are there for a reason. Shootouts have no meaning, no context, no history. There is a difference between awarding a scoring chance for a scoring chance lost by an infraction, and settling a game of 1000 skills on one skill alone. It's stupid and arbitrary.

Shootouts are a gimmick. As others have said, it's like settling a baseball game on a home-run contest or a basketball game one free-throw or slam-dunk contest. If you don't like those ideas, it doesn't mean you hate home-runs or slam dunks, it just means you don't like seeing them used meritlessly to decide games.

Hockey is a team game. It is supposed to be two teams going head to head for 60 minutes to determine a victor based on their relative merits that night. Shootouts have nothing to do with this, and as a fan, I don't apologise for not liking it or thinking it violates the spirit of the game.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
There have been countless changes from equipment to training to techniques to strategies and to yes, rules. Such as penalties, how long they are and when they end.

98% of the changes you mention happened in the formative years of the NHL in the 1920s and 1930s. Pretty much every NHL fan alive has grown up with the same format. Equipment and training doesn't change the framework of the game.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
As for claiming that skilled teams will play for the shootout, I don't know what that means exactly. Certainly not all skilled teams will do it. Certain teams will be advantaged. That's a layer of strategy. Is it different from the way the NHL plays right now.

NO.

Let me repeat: No.

...

You're telling me they'll go for a shootout instead of going for overtime... that isn't really accurate. Like all teams, they'll try to finish this off in regulation. Hockey is played safe these days anyway, with or without shootoutsm with or without the current OT format.

I don't claim this as as major a point as some do. I wouldn't claim as others have that teams will sit on ties for the final 25 minutes of the game waiting for a shootout. But teams will sit on ties through overtime, and overtime will be less interesting as a result.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
It has plenty of relation to the game itself. You've got a guy, with a puck and he tries to score on the goalie. He's not breakdancing on skates for crying out loud. Are we going to freak out when a penalty shot is taken too? Does this have any relation to the game?

Oh, that's right. Nobody minds the penalty shot because you grew up with penalty shots. Right? So it doesn't mess the pseudo-integrity. Sorry, I don't really buy all this stuff.

No, it doesn't have any relation to the game itself. Nothing has happened inside the game to create the need for a breakaway contest. Yes, it's a hockey skill, and happens in hockey games. That doesn't mean that settling a game arbitrarily on that one skill has anything to do with that game.

As I said above, home runs and slam dunks have 'relation to the game' by your criteria, too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
The statistical anomalies I don't see as a big deal, sorry.
It's bloody weird. Teams will have 250 goals at the end of the season, but will have only scored 245. Players put the puck in the net to win a game, but get no statistical recognition for it. It's not a huge deal, but it's stupid nevertheless.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
The only thing where I can say you have a point is when you say you like a tie and can deal with a game ending as a tie. A simple matter of preference and nothing to do with the integrity of the game, which will be damn fine with or without this rule.
This is the main point. They've always been there. They're built into the framework of the game. Hardly anyone complains about them. Why on earth is there a need to get rid of them? Will this really get extra fans to games? Do significant amounts of fans stay away because they can't stomach a tie? I don't think so. I don't think it will make one whit of difference in fan attendance, TV viewership, or US interest.

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12-13-2004, 05:14 PM
  #73
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To me right now, I'm not for or against it, I would prefer to see how it would be after the first month or so, but with points I would give
3 points for a win in regulation time
2 points for a win in OT
1 point for a shoot out win
0 points for the loser across the board

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12-13-2004, 05:14 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komisarek8
People who argue about the fact that the NBA AND MLB doesn't do Dunk contest or Home Run Derby's don't know the sports quite well....It's easy to score in OVERTIME AND win the game ESPECIALLY IN THE NBA!!!! ..it's not as hard to score as it is in hockey where defensive games can go on forever if it wouldn't be stopped after the 5 min overtime...Tie Games are very like "you know wtv" ...I want to jump up and down when Mike Ribeiro shakes the pants off the goaltender or when Jose Theodore puts his leg up in the last second to get us another point.

It displays the best 5 "offensive" players vs your goaltender(usually the best)
and all teams, or almost all teams have 5 capable players to score goals. It also is a time when a player can display their skills "under pressure" and it's also good for the players because if they do good on the shootouts then it's something else to add when you are arguing for a raise..

FIFA WORLD CUP OF SOCCER....EURO CUP....ASIAN CUP....YOU NAME IT...FIFA .. Soccer or otherwise known as football is the most watched sports in the world, call it weak, stupid sport, call it wtv you want but it's a fact that it's the most popular sport around the planet and people watch even if they're team isn't playing... and yes they do have shootouts even in the BIG EVENTS like the WORLD CUP... and Soccer is also like a hockey , if not even more of a team sport.....

Soccer is a very popular sport. But this is a hockey thread, right???

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12-13-2004, 05:14 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Bucky
See, this is what I don't get. Why can't the hardcore fans support the game?? What's wrong with leaving the game the way it's been enjoyed for over a hundred years??? I've said before, NASCSAR would thrill me if they added a sniper who shot out tires at random. You'd never get me away from the television. I'd probably watch the NBA if someone beating up a fan was COMPULSORY every game. Hell, I would even watch golf on tv if they had a bikini model tease the players as they went for the putt..

Do I expect any of those things to happen so that I can enjoy those sports?? Of course I don't. Those sports have millions of fans who enjoy them JUST THE WAY THEY ARE. Trying to convert me shouldn't be on their agenda, if I can't enjoy the thrill of race cars at 200mph, that's my loss. To my way of thinking, trying to make people like this sport hasn't improved the game much so far....
Amen.

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