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Rick Dudley named Assistant GM + Larry Carriere contract extension (Official)

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05-07-2012, 05:45 PM
  #276
Whitesnake
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Now why again are we not in the NHL Playoffs this year?

And why was Hamilton basically bare with regard to talent that can be called up and be semi-effective?

Not being a smart ass. I want to know why we are not in the playoffs with the best at drafting and really good player development.

I dont see it.
Like I just said....'cause you do happen to see a gap in a development scale. You will see on every team, where the farm team will be filled with prospects and then for different sorts of reasons, won't have anything to show for. But the "sorts of reasons" are either because some of your important prospects are in Europe, or because most of your important prospects just graduated or because, which is a little bit of our case, we happen to have traded some picks in the process that would have been Hamilton bound at this time based on Timmins record.

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05-07-2012, 05:48 PM
  #277
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After the Leafs make their last pick in the draft...."We have a trade to announce...The Toronto Maple Leafs have traded Rick Dudley to the Montreal Canadiens for Scott Gomez and Tomas Kaberle"
One can dream can't they..
Nope, it will happen in the first round. We'll give you 5th overall and Dudley for 3rd overall

To be honest, Dudley is good at judging talent. IIRC it was his idea, not Burke's, to go after Gardiner and has been quote as saying "I believe he can be a number 1 dman or at the very least, a number 2". That trade was one of the best in recent memory for us and seems like a solid steal. I think Burke has even said that was Dudley, not him.

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05-07-2012, 06:10 PM
  #278
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Nope, it will happen in the first round. We'll give you 5th overall and Dudley for 3rd overall

To be honest, Dudley is good at judging talent. IIRC it was his idea, not Burke's, to go after Gardiner and has been quote as saying "I believe he can be a number 1 dman or at the very least, a number 2". That trade was one of the best in recent memory for us and seems like a solid steal. I think Burke has even said that was Dudley, not him.
On February 9, 2011, Gardiner, along with Joffrey Lupul and a conditional fourth round draft pick in the 2013 NHL Entry Draft, was traded to the Toronto Maple Leafs for defenceman François Beauchemin.

If i am not mistaken wasn't Dudley working with ATL at that time

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05-07-2012, 06:15 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by mapes View Post
Nope, it will happen in the first round. We'll give you 5th overall and Dudley for 3rd overall

To be honest, Dudley is good at judging talent. IIRC it was his idea, not Burke's, to go after Gardiner and has been quote as saying "I believe he can be a number 1 dman or at the very least, a number 2". That trade was one of the best in recent memory for us and seems like a solid steal. I think Burke has even said that was Dudley, not him.
It's just too bad Kaberle isn't playing like in his Leafs days, he was a habs killer..but back on topic

I have to agree with the earlier poster, "Fair is Fair", we don't NEED Dudley before the draft, Timmins has it under control. He's in his 11th season with the Habs, I just hope MB brings in some scouts to take some pressure off of him.
Lovin' the direction things are goin

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05-07-2012, 06:17 PM
  #280
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It's just too bad Kaberle isn't playing like in his Leafs days, he was a habs killer..
What do you mean, there was plenty of evidence during the last season that he's still a habs killer

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05-07-2012, 06:45 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by donghabs98 View Post
On February 9, 2011, Gardiner, along with Joffrey Lupul and a conditional fourth round draft pick in the 2013 NHL Entry Draft, was traded to the Toronto Maple Leafs for defenceman François Beauchemin.

If i am not mistaken wasn't Dudley working with ATL at that time
Dudley was added to the Toronto Maple Leafs management team on June 24, 2011.

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05-07-2012, 06:55 PM
  #282
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http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockeynight...31564493&tab=1

Part quote from Glen Healy..have to watch it all to really understand but its about the Habs coaching propects on the CBC Hotstove
"Give Dudley a coffee, a car, and tell him go scout!" I lol'd on that one!!

I'll summarized a bit...

Friedman - MB might go after Quenneville, after the hawks lost out, bowman seemed to question some of the coaching. Quenneville knows french, doesn't think he speaks it well. The two allies of Quenneville, Tallon and MB, are gone.

Healy - If Dudley is there, get him into scouting, away from the decision of coach
Agrees with Friedman, might be able to pry Quenneville from Chicago

Warnsby sp? - Crawford will be lobbying hard for Habs coach. Lives 45mins from MTL. Mother is french, Wife is french, and kids and bilingual.
MB asked to bring in Quenneville to Chicago as a scout, then he was named coach.


Last edited by mikeysvette: 05-07-2012 at 07:18 PM.
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05-07-2012, 07:05 PM
  #283
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Can someone explain to me why we need a capologist?

Seems to me that we only need to hire someone to create a spreadsheet, just like capgeek uses, a little more detailed to take into account days players actually spend on the NHL roster.

Seems to me every team should have something like this, if not, that's an opportunity for any computer geeks on this board (give me at least 5% for the idea) to make some consulting money.

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05-07-2012, 07:11 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by dcal64 View Post
Can someone explain to me why we need a capologist?

Seems to me that we only need to hire someone to create a spreadsheet, just like capgeek uses, a little more detailed to take into account days players actually spend on the NHL roster.

Seems to me every team should have something like this, if not, that's an opportunity for any computer geeks on this board (give me at least 5% for the idea) to make some consulting money.
Every business has an accountant. NHL is a little bit different with bonus clauses, IR, etc, you need your accountant to be a lawyer also. Capologist is just a term... Simple sum up.

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05-07-2012, 07:11 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by dcal64 View Post
Can someone explain to me why we need a capologist?

Seems to me that we only need to hire someone to create a spreadsheet, just like capgeek uses, a little more detailed to take into account days players actually spend on the NHL roster.

Seems to me every team should have something like this, if not, that's an opportunity for any computer geeks on this board (give me at least 5% for the idea) to make some consulting money.
It's more like a contract lawyer I think.

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05-07-2012, 08:05 PM
  #286
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Teams need a capologist because the CBA is a set of laws, and like any law, it is heavy and requires a "lawyer" to move through it and find loopholes/advantages wherever there may be. (accountants can also do it, since they have experience with tax laws).

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05-07-2012, 08:09 PM
  #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcal64 View Post
Can someone explain to me why we need a capologist?

Seems to me that we only need to hire someone to create a spreadsheet, just like capgeek uses, a little more detailed to take into account days players actually spend on the NHL roster.

Seems to me every team should have something like this, if not, that's an opportunity for any computer geeks on this board (give me at least 5% for the idea) to make some consulting money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxPac67 View Post
Every business has an accountant. NHL is a little bit different with bonus clauses, IR, etc, you need your accountant to be a lawyer also. Capologist is just a term... Simple sum up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
It's more like a contract lawyer I think.
Capologist is not just a numbers person. He is also someone who understands the CBA inside/out and can interpret all the legal jargon....an absolutely necessary resource in this era of hockey. This allows others from hockey operations to focus on talent evaluation.

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05-07-2012, 08:52 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Like I just said....'cause you do happen to see a gap in a development scale. You will see on every team, where the farm team will be filled with prospects and then for different sorts of reasons, won't have anything to show for. But the "sorts of reasons" are either because some of your important prospects are in Europe, or because most of your important prospects just graduated or because, which is a little bit of our case, we happen to have traded some picks in the process that would have been Hamilton bound at this time based on Timmins record.
Thanks for the reply.

I have been critical somewhat of Timmins in the past. With that said, the biggest disconnect in Montreal has been the development of our draft picks.

Regardless of whose fault that is, it is a huge glaring area that needs to be addressed by Bergevin and co.

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05-07-2012, 09:03 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by Schooner Guy View Post
Capologist is not just a numbers person. He is also someone who understands the CBA inside/out and can interpret all the legal jargon....an absolutely necessary resource in this era of hockey. This allows others from hockey operations to focus on talent evaluation.
Obviously we have been operating without one for the past five years

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05-07-2012, 09:29 PM
  #290
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Sounds like Dudley is going to come before the draft anyway based on what cbc said.

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05-07-2012, 09:31 PM
  #291
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Sounds like Dudley is going to come before the draft anyway based on what cbc said.
Yeah. Not sure how true it is, but it was fun to hear that Dudley might have said that he wants to join the Habs as soon as possible. But I would also trust Dudley to not reveal anything specific about the Leafs strategy.

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05-07-2012, 09:40 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Yeah. Not sure how true it is, but it was fun to hear that Dudley might have said that he wants to join the Habs as soon as possible. But I would also trust Dudley to not reveal anything specific about the Leafs strategy.
They (broadcast team) were saying ole Burkie is pissed about losing a management team member and feels there needs to be a rule change.

I thought it was the old boys network code to let a guy move up with another team. Regardless, he obviously values Dudley an awful lot.

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05-07-2012, 09:52 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by Schooner Guy View Post
Capologist is not just a numbers person. He is also someone who understands the CBA inside/out and can interpret all the legal jargon....an absolutely necessary resource in this era of hockey. This allows others from hockey operations to focus on talent evaluation.
We have Kevin Gilmore for that, as well as Boivin, some don't like Patrick Boivin because of his dad, but the guy simply just a numbers guy with no hockey impact on the team, and we haven't had any cap issues. More important out f the two is Kevin Gilmore, lawyer, dealt with CBA, contracts, etc..

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05-07-2012, 09:55 PM
  #294
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Yeah. Not sure how true it is, but it was fun to hear that Dudley might have said that he wants to join the Habs as soon as possible. But I would also trust Dudley to not reveal anything specific about the Leafs strategy.
I'm not sure if the Leafs are too worried about Dudley giving away secrets. I think Burke knows that out of everyone on his staff, Dudley was the one who worked the most on the amateur scouting and knows all the players best. If Dudley were to leave now, he not only loses his best talent adviser, someone else on their staff is going to have to work double overtime to make up all the scouting Dudley is leaving with and when there is very little time to catch up at this point in the season. It's not like the players and games Dudley saw can be played again for the new person who will take Dudley's place.

So I can't blame Burke.

But there's no rule against it for a reason. If it was so bad, it would be against NHL policy.

It would be a big boost for the Habs on the other hand. They will have both Timmins and Dudley's input on prospects and it can really help have a more successful draft to help Bergevin get a better team on the ice faster.

Besides it's not like the Habs need to trade with Toronto and Burke is getting older by the minute. Sometimes it ok to burn a bridge if it keeps the crazies from following you..

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05-07-2012, 10:19 PM
  #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by groovejuice View Post
They (broadcast team) were saying ole Burkie is pissed about losing a management team member and feels there needs to be a rule change.

I thought it was the old boys network code to let a guy move up with another team. Regardless, he obviously values Dudley an awful lot.
I fully understand, but a Contract is a contract! If Dudley wants to come to Montreal & he may be itching for it! He did come on TSN990 3 weeks before Bergeven was hired & pumped him up his friend, maybe he really does want out of Toronto & is a real Hockey guy. Not Everyone likes life in Toronto & maybe someone who really likes the game dreams to work for the "Original Team" He has an out in his contract, he's got a better job. Case Closed... he will work for Montreal sooner or later, it's all about Burke trying to get compensation, that's all! Maybe if Burke offered him a better job?

EDIT: My Understanding is he was #4 or 5 in Toronto, We'll #2 in Montreal if far higher than even #1 in Atlanta!


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05-07-2012, 10:25 PM
  #296
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I fully understand, but a Contract is a contract! If Dudley wants to come to Montreal & he may be itching for it! He did come on TSN990 3 weeks before Bergeven was hired & pumped him up his friend, maybe he really does want out of Toronto & is a real Hockey guy. Not Everyone likes life in Toronto & maybe someone who really likes the game dreams to work for the "Original Team" He has an out in his contract, he's got a better job. Case Closed... he will work for Montreal sooner or later, it's all about Burke trying to get compensation, that's all! Maybe if Burke offered him a better job?
Burke is 'Old Boys Network'. We invested time and money in this person, therefore we should own him.

Same exact mentality that tried to prevent the onset of free agency.

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05-07-2012, 10:31 PM
  #297
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Burke is 'Old Boys Network'. We invested time and money in this person, therefore we should own him.

Same exact mentality that tried to prevent the onset of free agency.
Well, Don't mind waiting 2 month's. But what I've heard from the contract is that Dudley can hop an Air Canada Jet Tomorrow if he wishes, but we do have to trade with 29 teams in future & if honour needs to be full-filled, so be it! We have Timmins for the draft.

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05-07-2012, 10:44 PM
  #298
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Originally Posted by groovejuice View Post
Burke is 'Old Boys Network'. We invested time and money in this person, therefore we should own him.

Same exact mentality that tried to prevent the onset of free agency.
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Originally Posted by MaxPac67 View Post
Well, Don't mind waiting 2 month's. But what I've heard from the contract is that Dudley can hop an Air Canada Jet Tomorrow if he wishes, but we do have to trade with 29 teams in future & if honour needs to be full-filled, so be it! We have Timmins for the draft.
Seriously guys, Burke is being pretty cool about this whole thing. Given Dudley's position I think he's entirely within his entitlement to ask that he carry through until the end of the year. If the shoe was on the other foot I doubt anyone would be too pleased if Burke snatched up Timmins just prior to an important draft.

A couple months is not a big deal when you are at the steep part of the 5 year building curve.

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05-07-2012, 10:52 PM
  #299
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Seriously guys, Burke is being pretty cool about this whole thing. Given Dudley's position I think he's entirely within his entitlement to ask that he carry through until the end of the year. If the shoe was on the other foot I doubt anyone would be too pleased if Burke snatched up Timmins just prior to an important draft.

A couple months is not a big deal when you are at the steep part of the 5 year building curve.
This is Canada, there is no guard watching shoulder, Dudley & Bergeven Worked there way into Montreal & talk daily on the phone, anyone that thinks they don't talk, well. It would be way more beneficial for Toronto to get Dudley out! Come on Guys, men aren't machines, they're more loyal to friends, than work partners. Burke just want's something, he won't get it, he just want's to prove a point!

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05-07-2012, 10:54 PM
  #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Smurf View Post
Most teams have 2 AGMs. We'll be fine with Dudley and Carriere
Carriere can look after contracts - the business side of Gm-ing (what ever clown put him on the bench - wow Dysfunction Junction!)

Bergevin
Dudley
Timmons

winner-winner-chicken dinner!!

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