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2012 NHL Draft Thread III (June 22nd-23rd)

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06-19-2012, 02:39 PM
  #926
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I
The bolded part, however, raised a question mark with me. Everett was not a high scoring team by anyone's standards - 185 goals for was third worst in the Western Hockey League, and yet Murray still managed to lead his team's defense corps in scoring, despite playing in 13 fewer games than the next closest scorer. Last season, he finished third on his entire team in scoring with 46 points (while only missing two regular season games), on a team that scored the second fewest goals in the WHL (172). Average points per game were 0.66 last year, and 0.67 this year.

Everett is by no means an offensive powerhouse in the WHL. The fact that Ryan Murray was an even player this year speaks volumes about him, as his team only won 22 of their 72 games, and finished with a -83 goal differential.

I won't go as far as saying his offensive game is at an elite level, but I think he's being discounted here. I see him being a 40-50 point defenseman in the NHL, while also being a very reliable shutdown player. He says he likes to model his game after Duncan Keith ... whether or not he ever gets there is certainly debatable, but I really see some quality features in Ryan Murray.
All I'm saying is that in his WHL career, Murray has 20 goals and 84 assists in 168 games. And that's playing for the Silvertips. Imagine how many assists he would have put up playing for the Winterhawks.

What Murray doesn't do is the dazzling one-on-one moves and scoring highlight reel goals doing it all by himself and compensating for lack of goal scoring by the forwards.

Where he's going to bring value to an NHL team is his ability to move the puck up ice, especially for a Blue Jacket team who frequently can't get the puck out of their own zone much less thru the neutral zone. He sees the ice well, makes good first passes and has an amazing hockey sense.

Cam Fowler was so successful his rookie season because he was able to get the puck to the likes of Perry, Selanne and Ryan. He only had 10 goals but 30 assists. When Ducks scoring went down this season, Fowler had a sophomore slump.

If the Jackets do pick Murray, unless they immediately start winning, there's probably going to be bashing of the pick because Murray's not going to have the offensive numbers to back up a #2 overall selection unless the Jackets forwards improve. Most defenseman selected that high don't live up to the expectations.

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06-19-2012, 02:40 PM
  #927
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He understands sacrifices -- he's seen them and he's lived through them. It's perhaps for that reason he can't understand how those who don't know him personally can draw conclusions on his future based entirely on his injury.

"There's a lot of stupid things that people say, that I'm not going to come back and that stuff," he says. "Those are the guys that never saw me work out. They never saw what I'm capable of doing in the gym."
Love this. He's on a mission.

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06-19-2012, 03:04 PM
  #928
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All I'm saying is that in his WHL career, Murray has 20 goals and 84 assists in 168 games. And that's playing for the Silvertips. Imagine how many assists he would have put up playing for the Winterhawks.

What Murray doesn't do is the dazzling one-on-one moves and scoring highlight reel goals doing it all by himself and compensating for lack of goal scoring by the forwards.

Where he's going to bring value to an NHL team is his ability to move the puck up ice, especially for a Blue Jacket team who frequently can't get the puck out of their own zone much less thru the neutral zone. He sees the ice well, makes good first passes and has an amazing hockey sense.
Cam Fowler was so successful his rookie season because he was able to get the puck to the likes of Perry, Selanne and Ryan. He only had 10 goals but 30 assists. When Ducks scoring went down this season, Fowler had a sophomore slump.

If the Jackets do pick Murray, unless they immediately start winning, there's probably going to be bashing of the pick because Murray's not going to have the offensive numbers to back up a #2 overall selection unless the Jackets forwards improve. Most defenseman selected that high don't live up to the expectations.
I don't think thats 100% accurate anymore. I'd say our top 2 pairings can move the puck quite well....skating or passing. Remember this isn't the old Foote/Hejda top pairing days. We now have a couple of the better puck moving defenseman in the league.

If we are to add anything to the blue line, its going to be something more in the stay at home dept imo. Personally I don't think we need it as I feel Methot is underrated here in Columbus.

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06-19-2012, 03:31 PM
  #929
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Galchenyuk in his post on NHL.com said he worked out for the Leafs and visited the Canadiens locker room and city. No mention of columbus.

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06-19-2012, 03:42 PM
  #930
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I'm an avid Bruins (from Massachusetts) and OHL fan, but go to school out in Ohio, so, naturally, I watched a few Jackets games this year, and I guess you could say they are my secondary team. I really would like to see them to draft Galchenyuk, and think they'd make a major mistake if they pass him up. I personally don't know whether or not he'll be NHL-ready, come October, but, when all is said and done, I think he'll be one of the top 2 players that emerge from this draft (I actually think he's the 2nd best player on the board right now).

He's such a slick playmaker, and is calm, cool, and collective with the puck. He has the rare ability to keep the puck on his stick the extra second to allow his wingers to get open, he gives 110% every night, and I think he'll be a solid two-way player in the NHL. And if Nash is somehow still in Columbus, I think the two of them could really do some damage. Plus, you can never have enough skill down the middle. If they select him, and he is NHL ready, you could try him out with Nash, and have Johansen/Brassard setting up Umberger on the 2nd line. I really don't mind the defensive core that they currently have, and if they could add 1-2 15-20 goal scorers in free agency, to provide Brassard/Johnasen with more weapons to distribute the puck to, and I really think the team would be on their way to making some steady progress. Anyways, back to Galchenyuk, he can put the puck in the net as well, is a great teammate (a team first guy), and would be a good representative of the Blue Jackets both on, and off the ice. To summarize, I just think he hasn't even reached his potential yet, you know you're going to get 110% effort from him every shift he takes, all in addition to him being a tremendously skilled player.

However, I think Howson winds up with Forsberg, whether he stays pat at #2, or works out a trade with either the Isles or Habs. From everything I've read, and based on their current personnel, the Habs really want Galchenyuk and the Isles would love to get Murray, all provided that Edmonton does what many expect them to do and pick Yakupov.

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06-19-2012, 03:57 PM
  #931
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It disappoints me that I have seen absolutely nothing connecting the Jackets and Galchenyuk.

The kid has fire.

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06-19-2012, 04:37 PM
  #932
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Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
I don't think thats 100% accurate anymore. I'd say our top 2 pairings can move the puck quite well....skating or passing. Remember this isn't the old Foote/Hejda top pairing days. We now have a couple of the better puck moving defenseman in the league.

If we are to add anything to the blue line, its going to be something more in the stay at home dept imo. Personally I don't think we need it as I feel Methot is underrated here in Columbus.
I was still annoyed with both Wiz and JJ in the lineup that there wasn't better transition through the neutral zone by the end of the season, but that was in part the forwards' faults and it will improve as the players get used to playing together as well. There's also a need for a playmaking center, and that's where Galchenyuk could fit in.

Murray really would suit the Oilers more than the Jackets and could be the guy transitioning the puck to their group of young forwards without being a complete defensive risk like so many offensive defensemen. That could be a great situation for him.

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06-19-2012, 04:55 PM
  #933
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Originally Posted by JacketsFanWest View Post
All I'm saying is that in his WHL career, Murray has 20 goals and 84 assists in 168 games. And that's playing for the Silvertips. Imagine how many assists he would have put up playing for the Winterhawks.

What Murray doesn't do is the dazzling one-on-one moves and scoring highlight reel goals doing it all by himself and compensating for lack of goal scoring by the forwards.

Where he's going to bring value to an NHL team is his ability to move the puck up ice, especially for a Blue Jacket team who frequently can't get the puck out of their own zone much less thru the neutral zone. He sees the ice well, makes good first passes and has an amazing hockey sense.

Cam Fowler was so successful his rookie season because he was able to get the puck to the likes of Perry, Selanne and Ryan. He only had 10 goals but 30 assists. When Ducks scoring went down this season, Fowler had a sophomore slump.

If the Jackets do pick Murray, unless they immediately start winning, there's probably going to be bashing of the pick because Murray's not going to have the offensive numbers to back up a #2 overall selection unless the Jackets forwards improve. Most defenseman selected that high don't live up to the expectations.
I can't disagree. But, if he played for the Winterhawks and put up 70 points this season, would that raise his draft stock? Personally, I have zero concerns about his game - the only question is, how high is his ceiling? For me, he looks like a potential #1 defenseman, but at least a #4-5 defenseman.

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Murray really would suit the Oilers more than the Jackets and could be the guy transitioning the puck to their group of young forwards without being a complete defensive risk like so many offensive defensemen. That could be a great situation for him.
I agree; but, that doesn't mean they will take him ahead of Nail Yakupov.

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06-19-2012, 05:24 PM
  #934
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I can't disagree. But, if he played for the Winterhawks and put up 70 points this season, would that raise his draft stock? Personally, I have zero concerns about his game - the only question is, how high is his ceiling? For me, he looks like a potential #1 defenseman, but at least a #4-5 defenseman.
If you don't see Murray as a likely #1, and at least a #2 defenseman, you have no business even considering him with the 2nd overall pick. You just take the forward you like the most and move on.

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06-19-2012, 06:53 PM
  #935
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If you don't see Murray as a likely #1, and at least a #2 defenseman, you have no business even considering him with the 2nd overall pick. You just take the forward you like the most and move on.
I agree. I guess there's a reason we're looking at him so much though

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06-19-2012, 07:02 PM
  #936
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For what it's worth, in the TSN Mock Draft, Pierre McGuire has the Jackets selecting Murray at #2, with Galchenyuk going to Montreal at #3.

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=9832

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06-19-2012, 08:32 PM
  #937
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I really wonder if the "Russian Question" is partly driving some of what we're hearing about the CBJ not likely to take Yak if he survives past #1.

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06-19-2012, 09:40 PM
  #938
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I really wonder if the "Russian Question" is partly driving some of what we're hearing about the CBJ not likely to take Yak if he survives past #1.
After the Zherdev and Filatov fiascos, I don't think I can blame them ... but, Yakupov has something neither of those kids had: Compete. That makes all the difference in the world.

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06-19-2012, 09:54 PM
  #939
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Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
Galchenyuk in his post on NHL.com said he worked out for the Leafs and visited the Canadiens locker room and city. No mention of columbus.
I remember Johansen saying Columbus hadn't shown a ton of interest in him before drafting him. Howson plays his cards pretty close to the vest.

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06-19-2012, 10:34 PM
  #940
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After the Zherdev and Filatov fiascos, I don't think I can blame them ... but, Yakupov has something neither of those kids had: Compete. That makes all the difference in the world.
Totally agree. Same can be said for Galchenyuk. Both appear to be team-first guys and not your typical greedy/selfish Russian players who give mediocre effort (cough, Alex Semin, cough).

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06-19-2012, 10:53 PM
  #941
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I remember Johansen saying Columbus hadn't shown a ton of interest in him before drafting him. Howson plays his cards pretty close to the vest.
Man, that's worked out well.

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06-19-2012, 11:08 PM
  #942
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No, but it's exactly what you were implying. At least stand by it.

Ryan Johansen played in the BCHL as a 16 year old, for the record. He scored 17 points in 47 games in Junior A ... the next year, he moved UP to the WHL, and scored at nearly a point per game pace before seeing himself drafted #4 overall in the NHL draft.

Tyler Seguin scored 22 points in 74 games as an 18 year old in the NHL (very similar numbers to Johansen this year...), before exploding for 67 points in 81 games the following year. I won't go as far as saying that Ryan Johansen will duplicate that sort of success, but one season does not make or break a player's career. The sooner people get over that, the sooner we'll stop seeing such "huge disappointments" as Matt Calvert.

Give them time before throwing their names around.

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06-19-2012, 11:11 PM
  #943
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The difference between Seguin and Johansen is Seguin showed progress through the year in his rookie year, Johansen only got worse.

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06-19-2012, 11:14 PM
  #944
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
Galchenyuk in his post on NHL.com said he worked out for the Leafs and visited the Canadiens locker room and city. No mention of columbus.
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Originally Posted by Hipster Letestu View Post
I remember Johansen saying Columbus hadn't shown a ton of interest in him before drafting him. Howson plays his cards pretty close to the vest.
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Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
Man, that's worked out well.
So what you're saying, CBJBrassard16, is we shouldn't draft Galchenyuk?

And Johansen isn't even 20 yet. How old are you? Imagine breaking into your respective field at 19, and not even a year later be considered an afterthought. Doesn't that sound crazy? Not saying Johan is 100% going to be an all-star, but Christ, can you not be negative?

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06-19-2012, 11:19 PM
  #945
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Originally Posted by Ludicrous Speed View Post
So what you're saying, CBJBrassard16, is we shouldn't draft Galchenyuk?

And Johansen isn't even 20 yet. How old are you? Imagine breaking into your respective field at 19, and not even a year later be considered an afterthought. Doesn't that sound crazy? Not saying Johan is 100% going to be an all-star, but Christ, can you not be negative?
I've said numerous times that I wanted to draft Galch if Yakupov is gone at 1.

Johansen wasn't ready, he should have been sent down after game 9. Im not saying Johansen is terrible, but he hasn't shown anything worthy of being a 4th overall pick, yet.

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06-19-2012, 11:25 PM
  #946
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The difference between Seguin and Johansen is Seguin showed progress through the year in his rookie year, Johansen only got worse.
As a Bruins fan who watched virtually every game his rookie year, the answer to that is yes and no. In the regular season, he really didn't do much of anything. It wasn't really his fault, you could tell he wasn't NHL ready and that he was rushed, something that guys like Pierre McGuire and Darren Dreger said repeatedly throughout the season. Also, he got worse as the regular season went on. In the last 19 games, he had only 1 point (granted most of this was on the 3rd/4th line), but he wasn't putting forth the effort (something he even acknowledged at the start of this season when he had improved greatly) to play Claude Julien's system. He was absolutely terrified to go in the corners to dig for pucks, block shots and go all-out defensively. But, then again, Julien's system is fairly complicated for young players to pick up, think of a slightly less demanding John Tortorella system. In the playoffs, he really only had one solid game (Game 2 of the ECF against TB, where he had 4 points). He showed more grit after getting scratched, and was more willing to go in the dirty areas necessary to do well in Claude Julien's system. So, I guess you could technically say he improved, but on the score sheet (statistically)? Aside from that one game, not really.

This year, he was a completely different player. He got in better shape, put forth greater effort to learn/execute Julien's system, honed his offensive skills, and put on 15 pounds of solid muscle. Quite a few people (mostly Edmonton and Toronto fans) made the claims that it was simply because of his linemates, Bergeron and Marchand, which became the best 2nd line in the game. That's not completely true. You could tell he was a completely different player when he was playing on the 3rd line with Chris Kelly and Benoit Pouliot (and occasionally Daniel Paille, since Pouliot got off to a shaky start), and he could have had more points, but unfortunately, neither Kelly or Pouliot are bonafide snipers. He made a ton of slick passes (this was when he was playing Center on the 3rd line) and could have had ATLEAST 10 more points, but didn't because Kelly and Pouliot aren't the best finishers. He then got moved up to the 2nd line, playing on the ride side, and excelled, particularly in the defensive zone and started playing the system the way Julien wanted. Then, when the Bruins went through a rough stretch right around when Horton went down, Julien moved Seguin up to the 1st line where he centered (when Krejci got moved down to the 2nd/3rd line during a slump) and played on the right side (filling in for Horton), and he helped snap Krejci and Lucic out of the major slumps they were in.


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06-19-2012, 11:41 PM
  #947
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Aaron Portzline ‏@Aportzline

Word from the ‪#CBJ‬ is they have very little interest in moving up to No. 1. I think that might be a crafty curveball from GM Scott Howson.

Further, I don't think EDM - regardless what they've said about the steep price - would need that much to flop picks w ‪#CBJ‬.

What would ‪#CBJ‬ do w No. 1? If they trade capt Rick Nash, need for goals glaring. Mr. Yakupov can soften blow like no other avail player.

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06-19-2012, 11:49 PM
  #948
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Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
Aaron Portzline ‏@Aportzline

Word from the ‪#CBJ‬ is they have very little interest in moving up to No. 1. I think that might be a crafty curveball from GM Scott Howson.

Further, I don't think EDM - regardless what they've said about the steep price - would need that much to flop picks w ‪#CBJ‬.

What would ‪#CBJ‬ do w No. 1? If they trade capt Rick Nash, need for goals glaring. Mr. Yakupov can soften blow like no other avail player.
Very interesting. Maybe this is just me, I still think Tambo is likely to select Yaks, but from what I've been reading and hearing from people on TSN and hockey insiders/sources in Edmonton, I actually wouldn't be shocked if Edmonton takes Murray at #1. If you look at their d-man prospects, really none of them have #1 potential. They have a ton of depth, sure, but the majority of them are fringe #2-#3 guys. And, it looks like they're putting all of their eggs in the Justin Schultz basket, and if they miss out on him, they will essentially have the same D-core as they did last year. And ya, I like Petry, but he's being severely over-hyped by Edmonton fans as a #1 guy. Sorry, but he's not. He's a good player, but he's a fringe #2-#3 guy, something they have PLENTY of.

What do you guys think?

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06-19-2012, 11:52 PM
  #949
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BTW Johansen has gained about 20 pounds of muscle since late April. Hopefully that doesn't affect his skating / mobility like it has some players. Right now he's about 6'3" 220 lbs.

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06-19-2012, 11:56 PM
  #950
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Very interesting. Maybe this is just me, I still think Tambo is likely to select Yaks, but from what I've been reading and hearing from people on TSN and hockey insiders/sources in Edmonton, I actually wouldn't be shocked if Edmonton takes Murray at #1. If you look at their d-man prospects, really none of them have #1 potential. They have a ton of depth, sure, but the majority of them are fringe #2-#3 guys. And, it looks like they're putting all of their eggs in the Justin Schultz basket, and if they miss out on him, they will essentially have the same D-core as they did last year. And ya, I like Petry, but he's being severely over-hyped by Edmonton fans as a #1 guy. Sorry, but he's not. He's a good player, but he's a fringe #2-#3 guy, something they have PLENTY of.

What do you guys think?
I think Edmonton is playing people into believing they are taking Murray just to cause drama at the draft. Yakupov is their pick, and im willing to bet on it.

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