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Ownership Cluster**** Thread: Do or Die (or Both, or Neither)

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Old
06-17-2012, 12:39 PM
  #926
Whileee
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Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
Updated analysis from CF on the BoH board:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=149

Bottom line: There are grounds in statute for voiding the vote if there is an Open Meeting Law violation - but not on the contempt charges. However, comments made by Judges Burke & Cooper in the contempt proceedings definitely leave open that possibility.
Given the history in the ongoing litigation, and the previous direct admonitions of the judges and their stated concerns about the COG going ahead and pushing through a bit deal with just 24 hours notice, can anyone give a rational explanation for why the COG decided to do just that? What exactly was the hurry? Why couldn't they have provided the documents a few days before and then voted to approve the lease as they were going to do in any case? It seems like they have opened themselves up to some legal risk without any need to do so.

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06-17-2012, 01:09 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
Given the history in the ongoing litigation, and the previous direct admonitions of the judges and their stated concerns about the COG going ahead and pushing through a bit deal with just 24 hours notice, can anyone give a rational explanation for why the COG decided to do just that? What exactly was the hurry? Why couldn't they have provided the documents a few days before and then voted to approve the lease as they were going to do in any case? It seems like they have opened themselves up to some legal risk without any need to do so.
I think that the reality of the matter is that the GWI was going to take them to court no matter what. They could have waited 3 weeks to vote, they could have hand-delivered them to the GWI offices, they could have sent a leather-bound printed copy to every household in Glendale.

The GWI was going to oppose the deal no matter what. If it hadn't been on THIS issue, they would have taken them to court on something else. And then we would have people saying "well, why didn't the CoG just do what the GWI wanted them to do, so they wouldn't be in court?"

The GWI wants the Coyotes gone. They are going to use whatever tactic they can to make that happen.

We have no idea what is going on behind closed doors between NHL/Jamison/CoG. I'm sure that they've discussed in depth what the different legal issues were, and which methods would be needed to prevail in court. And I'm equally sure that the GWI has done a similar discussion as to how they were going to fight the deal, depending upon which tactics the CoG used.

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06-17-2012, 03:33 PM
  #928
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New thread title idea via comedian Daniel Tosh: Ballin' on a Budget.

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06-17-2012, 04:55 PM
  #929
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http://nebulousverbosity.com/?p=1120

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By now, after more than three years of ridiculousness brought on by the antics of former Goldwater Institute honcho and string puller Jerry Moyes, anybody who has remained a Coyotes fan in the face of the niggling and constant negativism by local, national and particularly Canadian press is like part of a family.
Quote:
One theory I have states Goldwater and friends are trying to delay the final sale of the Coyotes to the Jamison group just long enough to kill it.
Quote:
Suppose CM Alvarez was absent from the June 8 meeting in order to throw a monkey wrench into the works that could later be exploited by the Goldwater group? Suppose the Goldwater people knew she would be unavailable for the vote which, according to their claim, would negate the vote?
Quote:
To me, the ONLY chance of success for ANY of the matters brought forth by Goldwater in their case against CoG is that there may be a difference in what is considered a “quorum” for an emergency measure AND the above Article II, Section 17 is somehow a invalid regulation.

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06-17-2012, 05:37 PM
  #930
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Originally Posted by frackiewicz View Post
I think that the reality of the matter is that the GWI was going to take them to court no matter what. They could have waited 3 weeks to vote, they could have hand-delivered them to the GWI offices, they could have sent a leather-bound printed copy to every household in Glendale.

The GWI was going to oppose the deal no matter what. If it hadn't been on THIS issue, they would have taken them to court on something else. And then we would have people saying "well, why didn't the CoG just do what the GWI wanted them to do, so they wouldn't be in court?"

The GWI wants the Coyotes gone. They are going to use whatever tactic they can to make that happen.

We have no idea what is going on behind closed doors between NHL/Jamison/CoG. I'm sure that they've discussed in depth what the different legal issues were, and which methods would be needed to prevail in court. And I'm equally sure that the GWI has done a similar discussion as to how they were going to fight the deal, depending upon which tactics the CoG used.
You might well be right, and GWI would have tried to take this to court based on their interpretation of the "gift clause". But I am not sure how strong a case they would have on the gift clause, and I expect that they have tried to configure the deal to try to prevail over any challenge on those grounds.

So I am baffled as to why they seem to have made it so simple for the GWI to interfere. By unnecessarily rushing through the vote, even though two judges had evidently warned them not to, they seem to be itching to have a judge throw the book at them. The GWI aside, it seems imprudent to antagonize judges who are not even looking at the gift clause issue. It just seems so odd and clumsy and unnecessary. Anyway, you might be right and there is some tactical reason for doing this. It just doesn't seem obvious why taking a legal risk based on non-gift clause issues helps them in any way.

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Old
06-18-2012, 08:29 AM
  #931
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Goldwater's Coyotes lawsuit faces uphill battle, experts say

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The council is a legislative body, and courts give governmental entities wide discretion to make decisions, said David Derickson, a Phoenix-based defense attorney.

"For me, as a former judge and a legal observer, I would think it would be very difficult for the court to interfere with a lawful process," Derickson said.
Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...#ixzz1y9puDZQ3


Last edited by Naurutger: 06-18-2012 at 10:06 AM. Reason: Added quotes
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06-18-2012, 08:42 AM
  #932
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Originally Posted by frackiewicz View Post
The GWI wants the Coyotes gone. They are going to use whatever tactic they can to make that happen.
Forgive my ignorance (I'm from NY, but have casually followed this story), but why would GWI want the Coyotes gone? Wouldn't it be more detrimental to have this new arena without any permanent tenants? The circus, concerts, moster trucks are nice, but I seriously doubt they can book enough of these kind of events to make it worth having the arena.

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06-18-2012, 09:09 AM
  #933
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
Forgive my ignorance (I'm from NY, but have casually followed this story), but why would GWI want the Coyotes gone? Wouldn't it be more detrimental to have this new arena without any permanent tenants? The circus, concerts, moster trucks are nice, but I seriously doubt they can book enough of these kind of events to make it worth having the arena.
The GWI, like many similar institutions, is concerned more with political ideology. Actual consequences only make a tiny part of the calculus. They have to take a hard line stance on everything, so when the reality of a situation is "a government subsidy will likely have a net positive economic impact on the area," they stop reading at "government subsidy" and get their pitchforks ready.

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06-18-2012, 10:03 AM
  #934
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
Forgive my ignorance (I'm from NY, but have casually followed this story), but why would GWI want the Coyotes gone? Wouldn't it be more detrimental to have this new arena without any permanent tenants? The circus, concerts, moster trucks are nice, but I seriously doubt they can book enough of these kind of events to make it worth having the arena.
It certainly is the question of the day until you realize that GWI has 2 goals:

1) Increase its donations via publicity

2) Make life easier for its members and executives

The publicity of fighting the Coyotes have led to an increase in their donations by 26% last year (via their audit report). Additionally, I believe that they believe with the Coyotes gone, ticket sales for the Arizona Diamondbacks will increase. Their current board member Randy Kendrick and former board member now turned supporter Jerry Moyes would benefit from such an increase in ticket sales (as both are members of the Dbacks ownership group). And obviously Jerry Moyes, the former Coyotes owner, will fight the NHL until he dies.

For GWI to claim that they are anything else is a blatant lie.

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06-18-2012, 10:32 AM
  #935
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FYI:

Quote:
THE QUESTION
Do you think the Goldwater Institute will be successful in their lawsuit against Glendale over the $324 million Phoenix Coyotes lease deal?

I don't. 69.59%
I do. 17.76%
I have no idea. 12.65%
Total Votes: 490
Front page of Azcentral.com

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Old
06-18-2012, 02:02 PM
  #936
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naurutger View Post
2) Make life easier for its members and executives

Additionally, I believe that they believe with the Coyotes gone, ticket sales for the Arizona Diamondbacks will increase. Their current board member Randy Kendrick and former board member now turned supporter Jerry Moyes would benefit from such an increase in ticket sales (as both are members of the Dbacks ownership group). And obviously Jerry Moyes, the former Coyotes owner, will fight the NHL until he dies.

For GWI to claim that they are anything else is a blatant lie.
Exactly, they didn't pitch a fit when the Diamondbacks publicly financed 238 million dollars! Ugh...their agenda is so blatant.


Last edited by Sinurgy: 06-18-2012 at 02:31 PM. Reason: less drama
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Old
06-18-2012, 08:21 PM
  #937
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So if Im coming here for updates is it safe to say there is really no point in checking back for at least two weeks?

Is the NHL waiting to approve him as an owner until the issue with GWI is resolved?

Is Jamison unable to get all the funds together from investors until the GWI issue is resolved?

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06-18-2012, 08:29 PM
  #938
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Originally Posted by Redcoyote View Post
So if Im coming here for updates is it safe to say there is really no point in checking back for at least two weeks?

Is the NHL waiting to approve him as an owner until the issue with GWI is resolved?

Is Jamison unable to get all the funds together from investors until the GWI issue is resolved?
The lease wont be valid with the city for 20 more days if I read this correctly. When signed, Jamison will have investors willing to go all in. That is why the stories about him not having enough is getting leaked...because its true, until the lease is signed then he will have enough...IMHO of reading through the lines.

From what I have read, looks like Glendale should be a step ahead of GWI.

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06-18-2012, 08:45 PM
  #939
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From what I have read, looks like Glendale should be a step ahead of GWI.
That's what I would hope. I'd like to think that CoG, NHL and all the others involved learned the lesson from last time, came up with an actual strategy and went into it totally planning what would happen when GWI inserted themselves in their business, etc.

But then I keep telling myself, this is Glendale we're talking about. And if anyone can screw something up...

Still, listening to some council members speak it's easy to tell that SOME of them are really on the ball as far as planning, reading, and all of that other edumactional akademik stuff that goes into being a council member. The others...not so much.

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06-18-2012, 09:04 PM
  #940
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So twenty more days and well after the draft and start of free agency. How long are Doan and Whitney going to wait when other (stable) teams are offering them good or better deals?

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06-18-2012, 09:20 PM
  #941
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It seemed like they didnt have these problems until they moved to glendale.

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Old
06-18-2012, 09:26 PM
  #942
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Originally Posted by Redcoyote View Post
So twenty more days and well after the draft and start of free agency. How long are Doan and Whitney going to wait when other (stable) teams are offering them good or better deals?
I think it might help in Rays case because unless a team offers more than a year, I bet he resigns. Doan is probably a crapshoot. I bet someone offers him some bucks but you might see free agents stuck in limbo until a new cba like what happened during the NFL lockout. But I am not sure GMs can wait until September before signing players.

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06-18-2012, 09:44 PM
  #943
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Originally Posted by PhoPhan View Post
The GWI, like many similar institutions, is concerned more with political ideology. Actual consequences only make a tiny part of the calculus. They have to take a hard line stance on everything, so when the reality of a situation is "a government subsidy will likely have a net positive economic impact on the area," they stop reading at "government subsidy" and get their pitchforks ready.
I wouldn't say they take a hard line on everything. They've been around a long while and didn't make a peep about the Cardinals deal or the Diamondbacks deal or the Suns deal or the Cactus League deal or I could go on but it all boils down to they have a hard 'on' (not 'line') for the Coyotes. Not saying that is driven by contributions, but GWI sure is pretty limp on those other sports issues.

When I was watching that big warehouse fire on the news this afternoon I thought of Goldwater group and figured they'd probably be wishing it had been the arena in Glendale instead of a warehouse in Gilbert...

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06-18-2012, 09:47 PM
  #944
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Originally Posted by Redcoyote View Post
So twenty more days and well after the draft and start of free agency. How long are Doan and Whitney going to wait when other (stable) teams are offering them good or better deals?
I would imagine Doan has two different deals already negotiated: a single year deal and a multi year deal depending on how the ownership situation plays out in the next month or two.

Don't know enough about Whitney to guess what he would choose to do. DM has said they have a new (probably two year) deal negotiated awaiting an update on the team staying. Would he take that deal if ownership isn't settled by July 1st? At this point in his career I wouldn't do just a one year contract if I were him when a lot or teams would offer two years.

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06-18-2012, 10:06 PM
  #945
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Those that live in PHX, THe *******s at Goldwater will be on Horizon (PBS) Tuesday evening discussing their litigation on the Coyotes.

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06-18-2012, 10:47 PM
  #946
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When I was watching that big warehouse fire on the news this afternoon I thought of Goldwater group and figured they'd probably be wishing it had been the arena in Glendale instead of a warehouse in Gilbert...
To be fair, the City of Glendale probably was wishing that, too. You know it's insured... probably a nice 'get out of jail free' card on their arena debt.

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06-19-2012, 08:48 AM
  #947
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Originally Posted by naurutger View Post
It certainly is the question of the day until you realize that GWI has 2 goals:

1) Increase its donations via publicity

2) Make life easier for its members and executives

The publicity of fighting the Coyotes have led to an increase in their donations by 26% last year (via their audit report). Additionally, I believe that they believe with the Coyotes gone, ticket sales for the Arizona Diamondbacks will increase. Their current board member Randy Kendrick and former board member now turned supporter Jerry Moyes would benefit from such an increase in ticket sales (as both are members of the Dbacks ownership group). And obviously Jerry Moyes, the former Coyotes owner, will fight the NHL until he dies.

For GWI to claim that they are anything else is a blatant lie.
Gotchya'. The Eagles operate the same way (sort of). They see the Phillies, Sixers, and Flyers, as their competition. There was a story about the Eagles owner seeing a cameraman wearing a Phillies hat, and he told him to take it off.

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06-19-2012, 10:25 AM
  #948
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So what are the odds that something meaningful actually happens today? I'm guessing ten percent chance of anything that actually transpires actually has some significant impact on anything.

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06-19-2012, 11:05 AM
  #949
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http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/80...tes-mess-again

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06-19-2012, 11:14 AM
  #950
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Surprisingly good little summary from ESPN. Normally I wouldn't consider reading a hockey article from ESPN, but I'm glad I did. I'm actually going to email this to my friends who are casual fans, who are curious about the ownership mess, but bot interested in researching it for themselves.

Most people I talk to believe the NHL sold the team to Greg Jamison and thats why the two of them held that press conference. I'm talking serious sports fans that actually watch quite a few Coyotes games and take interest in the team. Locally, the coverage was "Jamison is going to buy the team" then "Coyotes eliminated" then absolute, complete and total silence. Of course casual fans assume a sale was completed.

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