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Ownership Cluster**** Thread: Do or Die (or Both, or Neither)

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Old
06-19-2012, 03:12 PM
  #976
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Originally Posted by naurutger View Post
The amount of skill to know who the group is and to yell it loud enough for the reporters to hear is pretty awesome.

Edit:

So I guess the takeaway today is that if GWI can get 1,900 signatures by July 5th to force a public election on the lease vote then the deal will pretty much be dead because we wont know anything until November.

That is not a lot of signatures....I am sure they will say to people sign this if you dont want higher taxes.
Is GWI allowed to get signatures?

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06-19-2012, 03:16 PM
  #977
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Originally Posted by AP View Post
Is GWI allowed to get signatures?
I am sure their group and the 7 other people who attend meetings every week can stakeout a Walmart with a clipboard in hand gathering signatures. The questions then becomes if they can do it in 16 days?

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06-19-2012, 03:16 PM
  #978
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They may already have all the signatures they need.

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06-19-2012, 03:19 PM
  #979
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Couple of things I would suggest doing.

Get enough signatures on the ballot to have a vote to throw out the lease agreements with the Suns and the DBacks.

If there is going to be a vote on the lease, then anyone who lives in Arizona but not Glendale(and supports the Coyotes staying in AZ) should claim residency in that city so you can vote on on it, if it makes the ballot.

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06-19-2012, 03:21 PM
  #980
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@LisaHalverstadt: #Glendale resident/plaintiff Joe Cobb says he'll start gathering signatures from those against #Coyotes deal tomorrow.
No matter how much candy he offers you, don't sign it!

Also, I forgot how many are the norm but generally you have to get X number more signatures since its assumed a lot of the original signatures will be invalidated. Lots of work for one man in this weather.


Last edited by Naurutger: 06-19-2012 at 03:24 PM. Reason: Random Ideas
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06-19-2012, 03:23 PM
  #981
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Originally Posted by naurutger View Post
So I guess the takeaway today is that if GWI can get 1,900 signatures by July 5th to force a public election on the lease vote then the deal will pretty much be dead because we wont know anything until November.

That is not a lot of signatures....I am sure they will say to people sign this if you dont want higher taxes.
What do you mean, I'm sure people will use their critical thinking skills and won't fall for a simple ruse about raising taxes.

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06-19-2012, 03:28 PM
  #982
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Originally Posted by AP View Post
Couple of things I would suggest doing.

Get enough signatures on the ballot to have a vote to throw out the lease agreements with the Suns and the DBacks.

If there is going to be a vote on the lease, then anyone who lives in Arizona but not Glendale(and supports the Coyotes staying in AZ) should claim residency in that city so you can vote on on it, if it makes the ballot.
How would you even do this? I thought it was a legal issue to claim residency in a city, if you don't own property there you couldn't vote.

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06-19-2012, 03:30 PM
  #983
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How would you even do this? I thought it was a legal issue to claim residency in a city, if you don't own property there you couldn't vote.
Lots of people around the United States don't own any property but are allowed to vote since there are other ways to claim residency of a city, town, state. You can lease an a mailbox and use that mailing address as your address to put down. If someone owns property in their name but have others who live with them that don't then they should be encouraged to do it.

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06-19-2012, 03:32 PM
  #984
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Originally Posted by AP View Post
Lots of people around the United States don't own any property but are allowed to vote sicne there are other ways to claim residency of a city, town, state. You can lease an a mailbox and use that mailing address as your address to put down.
Less than an hour ago, you went off about how this was too complicated, and now you're advocating fraud?

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06-19-2012, 03:35 PM
  #985
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Originally Posted by PhoPhan View Post
Less than an hour ago, you went off about how this was too complicated, and now you're advocating fraud?
The mess over the last 3 years is complexed and it's not fraud if one knows how to use the system legally to their advantage.

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06-19-2012, 03:39 PM
  #986
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Originally Posted by AP View Post
Is GWI allowed to get signatures?
as a 501 (c) (3) they are not allowed to collect.

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06-19-2012, 03:42 PM
  #987
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The signature MUST be collected by registered voters within the City boundaries, property ownership and "residency" of a city are not relevant. Now what Coyotes fans can do is challenge the signatures after they have been turned in. You can divvy up tasks and have fans check with the secretary of state if the signatory has signed once and is registered in the City proper.

Coyotes fans could also check the back of each petition where the collector has to sign the affidavit. Convicted Felons can't collect signatures and any page turned in by a convicted felon would be invalid.

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06-19-2012, 03:46 PM
  #988
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Originally Posted by TeamTippett View Post
The signature MUST be collected by registered voters within the City boundaries, property ownership and "residency" of a city are not relevant. Now what Coyotes fans can do is challenge the signatures after they have been turned in. You can divvy up tasks and have fans check with the secretary of state if the signatory has signed once and is registered in the City proper.
So bottom line, deal is pretty much dead and the Coyotes are gone?

1,900 signatures is extremely easy to get...they could get those by Thursday

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06-19-2012, 03:46 PM
  #989
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Originally Posted by TeamTippett View Post
The signature MUST be collected by registered voters within the City boundaries, property ownership and "residency" of a city are not relevant. Now what Coyotes fans can do is challenge the signatures after they have been turned in. You can divvy up tasks and have fans check with the secretary of state if the signatory has signed once and is registered in the City proper.
Sign me up. "Oh look, I cant tell if its a 1 or a 7; I will invalidate this guy..."

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06-19-2012, 03:48 PM
  #990
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Originally Posted by AP View Post
The mess over the last 3 years is complexed and it's not fraud if one knows how to use the system legally to their advantage.
I'm fairly certain that opening a PO box so you can lie about your place of residency constitutes fraud.

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06-19-2012, 03:52 PM
  #991
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The whole competative bid issue seems like a total waste of time. Of course Jamison is the only potential arena manager who is also a potential owner of the Phoenix Coyotes. That's why his AMF is what it is. He can potentially provide 40 plus dates of NHL hockey. Nobody else can.

MOVE ON!

Sheesh.
Absolutely. Putting services out for bid may not be a stable situation. What if a vendor provides both concessionaire and janitorial services rolled into an offer for 5 years, whereas another offer may be to have separate groups do one or the other that start out with lower pay but assume greater increases through the years?

Plus, as I recall from all of the info that was mailed out to season ticket holders during the original BK process, some advertising and vendor groups are "locked in" to their contract for some time. What GWI is doing is putting the cart before the horse and saying that we need to find alternatives to the current services (which is what any owner would do once the team is purchased). If the current services in place are what we have to deal with due to best price, contractual obligations, etc. GWI can spin that into, "they didn't do enough research." If there is a group that is functionally better out there that is not being used, GWI will likely say that the city was going to put money in someone's hands that would not use a cheaper alternative and that he is taking more money than necessary from the city. Jamison and the NHL (as current owners) may not even be able to re-work a deal that is under contract. But people will pay more attention to "He's taking more money than necessary," as opposed to, "this is a situation where our handsare tied for x years."

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06-19-2012, 03:54 PM
  #992
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Originally Posted by naurutger View Post
Sign me up. "Oh look, I cant tell if its a 1 or a 7; I will invalidate this guy..."
i want to be clear, you personally can't invalidate the signatures. but if you can collectively eliminate signatures and get below the minimum then you challenged in superior court and a judge would invalidate. I think its two weeks after signatures have been turned in that you would have to ask superior court to invalidate.

What we want to keep an eye out to see if Petition Partners is hired to collect signatures, they are good and regularly have success.

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06-19-2012, 03:59 PM
  #993
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Originally Posted by TeamTippett View Post
i want to be clear, you personally can't invalidate the signatures. but if you can collectively eliminate signatures and get below the minimum then you challenged in superior court and a judge would invalidate. I think its two weeks after signatures have been turned in that you would have to ask superior court to invalidate.

What we want to keep an eye out to see if Petition Partners is hired to collect signatures, they are good and regularly have success.
Soooooo, go out and ask if people are going to vote against the Coyotes? Then a faulty gas line leads to explosive results and less signatures?

I didn't want to put it that deviously....

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06-19-2012, 04:02 PM
  #994
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Originally Posted by PhoPhan View Post
I'm fairly certain that opening a PO box so you can lie about your place of residency constitutes fraud.
If no one owns any property or have a lease under their name, it makes it easier for someone to do this as long as they can show proof they are psyically present in that area, i.e. hotel receipts or have people you know that will say that he/she stayed with me. People can say I was trying to get a job in that area and had no luck. Under Arizona law, it doesn't take much to become a resident anywhere in the state. For me, I became a resident of AZ the moment I signed up to vote from what I remember.


Last edited by Colt45Blast: 06-19-2012 at 04:08 PM.
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06-19-2012, 04:09 PM
  #995
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Originally Posted by AP View Post
If no one owns any property or have a lease under their name, it makes it easier for someone to do this as long as they can show proof they are psyically present in that area, i.e. hotel receipts or have people you know that will say that he/she stayed with me. People can say I was trying to get a job in that area and had no luck. Under Arizona law, it doesn't take much to become a resident anywhere in the state. For me, I became a resident of AZ the moment I signed up to vote from what I remember.
You seem to be missing my point. I'm not saying it can't be done. Just that it's illegal.

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06-19-2012, 04:16 PM
  #996
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You seem to be missing my point. I'm not saying it can't be done. Just that it's illegal.
Depends on how one does it. If a person owns property or have a lease in say Phoenix and sets up a mailbox in Glendale and claims to be a resident of Glendale in order to vote then yes that is illegal and I'm not telling others to do that since that is stupid. However, if one knows how the system works and the laws, a person can do this legally as long as they are in the right of course. I don't own property in AZ or have a lease, I can get up and go from one spot to the next at anytime and legally cliam residency in another city or town in AZ of my choosing. If I want to move to Tucson tommorow and claim my residency there, I can do it.

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06-19-2012, 04:16 PM
  #997
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Well without finding a better example of how many signatures are actually required, I am forced to touch on Pearce's recall election (I dont want to get political here just wanted an example of a forced vote). I don't know if its apple to apples but to force the election:

Quote:
The group submitted 16,949 signatures to the county in late May. County elections spokeswoman Yvonne Reed said the county certified that 10,365 are valid. The recall group needed at least 7,756 valid signatures to qualify for the ballot.
Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepu...#ixzz1yHAplwNa

So I am not sure what the standard is but I would assume that this fella needs at least 3,000 signatures in 2 weeks to force a vote in November. I am assuming that at least 1,000 could be invalidated because people were not registered to vote in Glendale when they signed his form; and that is being optimistic to this Cobb's Cause.

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06-19-2012, 04:19 PM
  #998
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Originally Posted by naurutger View Post
Well without finding a better example of how many signatures are actually required, I am forced to touch on Pearce's recall election (I dont want to get political here just wanted an example of a forced vote). I don't know if its apple to apples but to force the election:



Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepu...#ixzz1yHAplwNa

So I am not sure what the standard is but I would assume that this fella needs at least 3,000 signatures in 2 weeks to force a vote in November. I am assuming that at least 1,000 could be invalidated because people were not registered to vote in Glendale when they signed his form; and that is being optimistic to this Cobb's Cause.
In Glendale, they will need just over 1,900 signatures which is 10% of the registered voters for the last mayoral election.

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06-19-2012, 04:20 PM
  #999
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Depends on how one does it. If a person owns property or have a lease in say Phoenix and sets up a mailbox in Glendale and claims to be a resident of Glendale in order to vote then yes that is illegal and I'm not telling others to do that since that is stupid. However, if one knows how the system works and the laws, a person can do this legally as long as they are in the right of course. I don't own property in AZ or have a lease, I can get up and go from one spot to the next at anytime and legally cliam residency in another city or town in AZ of my choosing. If I want to move to Tucson tommorow and claim my residency there, I can do it.
You've lost me. Are you saying people should actually move to Glendale and establish residency just to vote on this?

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06-19-2012, 04:21 PM
  #1000
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In Glendale, they will need just over 1,900 signatures which is 10% of the registered voters for the last mayoral election.
That's a tiny number.

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