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General Talk '12 — Finland (Part II)

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Old
05-11-2012, 03:31 PM
  #76
SaekkiPaelli
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I love to be the guy who says "I told you so".

I've said all the time that Pesonen and Immonen should not be on this team and against Canada we saw why. Granlund wasn't good either but at least he wasn't completely terrible in own zone.

Immonen lost the puck all the time in the offensive zone and he was terrible in his own zone. He is just so soft. Pesonen misses the puck on every pass or shot, flails on the puck every single time. But I have to say that Pesonen does check from time to time, which I don't remember him doing much of before. So that's a plus I guess, but still put in Tuppurainen and Kiiskinen vs USA. Don't know if that'll be better but it's worth a try.

Some positivity to the post, I have been really impressed by Kontiola. He actually has some skills, although sometimes he takes holding on to the puck a bit too far, he should pass a bit faster. But he has had some impressive carries with the puck. Put him on the PP.

EDIT: Btw, I don't get the J Jokinen hate, the guy had +50 points in the NHL, better than 80% of the team. And Kukkonen is just horrible, the only memories I have of Kukkonen from WCs is that he always makes terrible mistakes in his own zone. Please don't use him anymore. J Järvinen has been surprisingly good, really clam with the puck, some minor mistakes here and there but he'll get there.

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05-11-2012, 04:11 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaekkiPaelli View Post
I love to be the guy who says "I told you so".
Rein in the moped, what you currently have is a sample size of one game.

At the very least, let's watch the USA game too. Then you can come back to gloat if you feel like it.

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05-11-2012, 04:19 PM
  #78
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^2nd line have been awful defensively the whole tournament. Most of the ppl have missed that since they have concentrated all of their hate towards Jokinen.

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05-11-2012, 04:23 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Eidyia View Post
2nd line have been awful defensively the whole tournament.
No argument there. Though before this night, they made it up just fine with adequate offense.

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05-11-2012, 04:31 PM
  #80
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I was also one of the guys that kind of doubted Immonen and when the true test came that line failed, but still, I believe I may be wrong and PIG will be good again vs USA (latest in the second game vs USA when it really matters). If we'd face Canada again in the finals PIG should be broken tho, that line is not going to work vs Canada, but it will probably be okay vs everyone else. Well that is my feeling about it.

I don't feel bad anymore about us losing to Canada after seeing that Malkin show vs Sweden .

A lot of people were throwing Lehtonen under the buss after the FIN-CAN game in the game thread and saying Vehanen should play the QF. It's way too early to throw Lehtonen under the buss. He's a lot better than Vehanen. I really don't want to see Vehanen in the QF game eventhough Vehanen probably would deserve that shot as he won the gold for us last year.

So we'll face USA on Sunday and then again on Wednesday I believe, right? If I was Jalonen, I'd put Rämö in goal on Sunday (USA) and Vehanen as the backup goalie. Monday (KAZ) Vehanen in goal and Lehtonen as the backup. QF (USA#2) Lehtonen as the starter. However it's very possible that SUI will do the upset vs USA on Monday and that could mean FIN-SUI, CAN-USA, but SUI would also need to beat SVK I think, so hmm... Dunno if they can get full points of both games and pass USA.

Then I'd replace Joensuu with Tuppurainen, for the next game and hopefully for all games afterwards if he performs okay. Seriously, Joensuu is playing okay, but the guy completely disappears after the first period in all games. I know, he does that invisible defensive work, but he gets nothing done offensively after the first period.

If Jalonen decides to break PIG, Kontiola deserves a shot to center in the second line. He was one of our best players in the Canada game and got something done in the second half of the game unlike many others.

Anyways, I'm really interested to see what tricks Jalonen is going to pull of for the USA game #1 for our roster and for the tactical side. I'm sure he doesn't want to reveal everything that he's going to change after the Canada loss in the USA #1 game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FiLe View Post
No, I didn't. It doesn't matter whether we were in a position to "control" the situation or not. Jalonen does not play to lose, no matter what it means for the QF. And therefore it doesn't matter if we give that chance to any of the other teams either.
Well I never meant Jalonen would play to lose, but what ever let's forget it as we lost to Canada and that is irrevelant now. Also my opinion about 2 days rest vs 1 day rest is that, it's not an advantage. 1 day is enough, only benefit is that our coaching staff gets to scout our next opponent team better and watch the game live at the arena, when that is the only thing they have to think about at that point pretty much. I think it may be more of a disadvantage to have 2 days rest as players may get bored at hotel etc.


Last edited by Mestaruus: 05-11-2012 at 04:41 PM.
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05-11-2012, 04:38 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Mestaruus View Post
I was also one of the guys that kind of doubted Immonen and when the true test came that line failed, but still, I believe I may be wrong and PIG will be good again vs USA (latest in the second game vs USA when it really matters). If we'd face Canada again in the finals PIG should be broken tho, that line is not going to work vs Canada, but it will probably be okay vs everyone else. Well that is my feeling about it.
I don't think anybody here wishes to deny the fact that they were our weakest line tonight.

It's just that, when the games have been going in our favor (albeit narrowly at times), there's not been a squeak from this guy. Now that we see a single bad game from the PIG line (at least this far), he's back right away, with a "I told you so" so crass it would make everyone who lived during the 90s blush. I just don't know whether that's funny or sad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mestaruus View Post
So we'll face USA on Sunday and then again on Wednesday I believe, right? If I was Jalonen, I'd put Rämö in goal on Sunday (USA) and Vehanen as the backup goalie. Monday (KAZ) Vehanen in goal and Lehtonen as the backup. QF (USA#2) Lehtonen as the starter. However it's very possible that SUI will do the upset vs USA on Monday and that could mean FIN-SUI, CAN-USA, but SUI would also need to beat SVK I think, so hmm... Dunno if they can get full points of both games and pass USA.
I'd play Lehtonen on Sunday as well, as a chance to bounce back. Vs. Kazakstan, either of the other two, but likely Vehanen. I mean, the QF is on Thursday, so you'd let Lehtonen sit for nearly a full week and then throw him straight into that game? Something tells me you'd have to get Nurminen very drunk for him to fall for that idea.


Last edited by FiLe: 05-11-2012 at 04:43 PM.
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05-11-2012, 04:44 PM
  #82
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Yeah. Usually there are just 2 options, Yes and No and if everyone says "I told you so" about everything 50% of the times when their opinion happens to be true, that would create quite a mess .

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05-11-2012, 06:49 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by SoupyFIN View Post
Probably Sandstorm by Darude.

No it wasnt that one =(

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05-11-2012, 07:13 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by fr9dd9 View Post
No it wasnt that one =(
First one that came to mind when thinking about a song without lyrics played there.

If that's what you meant by instrumental?

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05-11-2012, 08:01 PM
  #85
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Just realized the game was today. Do not have time for the WHC, when the best hockey is being played right now in the Stanley Cup Playoffs. Finland should have won that game. You guys have your best players there, while we had to send a pathetic defense having watched Phanuef and Schenn all year in Toronto playing for Canada, and forwards who have no shot at being in Sochi like Ted Purcell, Land, Burrows, etc. The World Hockey Championships should not be taken that seriously. It is exhibition hockey played by players whose seasons ended early from the NHL.

European teams should be much better, since those players are familiar with each other and have much more preparation time that Team Canada or USA. Anyways, glad that our C Team beat your A Team. You guys are expected to win with your best players playing at home, while we mainly send our teams so our young players could gain experience for Sochi. 2010 was the last best on best tournament, and the next one is 2014. Just enjoy the games and no need to take it seriously since this tournament does not have the best players for every country and is meaningless in my eyes. You do have great passion for hockey which is good to see.

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05-11-2012, 08:52 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mehar View Post
Just realized the game was today. Do not have time for the WHC, when the best hockey is being played right now in the Stanley Cup Playoffs. Finland should have won that game. You guys have your best players there, while we had to send a pathetic defense having watched Phanuef and Schenn all year in Toronto playing for Canada, and forwards who have no shot at being in Sochi like Ted Purcell, Land, Burrows, etc. The World Hockey Championships should not be taken that seriously. It is exhibition hockey played by players whose seasons ended early from the NHL.

European teams should be much better, since those players are familiar with each other and have much more preparation time that Team Canada or USA. Anyways, glad that our C Team beat your A Team. You guys are expected to win with your best players playing at home, while we mainly send our teams so our young players could gain experience for Sochi. 2010 was the last best on best tournament, and the next one is 2014. Just enjoy the games and no need to take it seriously since this tournament does not have the best players for every country and is meaningless in my eyes. You do have great passion for hockey which is good to see.
Yeah, whatever you say man. If you look at Canada's roster and then at Finland's roster, you'd bet on Canada winning hands down. On paper, it should've been a landslide. We made it a hockey game because of our team work, attitude and speed. And that's what Finnish hockey is all about. We may not have the flashiest or most physical players in the world, but we make what we have count, and rely on our excellent goaltending. Sadly, Lehtonen didn't bring his A game today, nor did our 2nd (PIG) line. Part of the problem is also that our grinders have been dominating weaker teams (no offense) such as France and Belarus physically, but Canada is on a whole different level.

The Canada you saw on the 1st was no real indication, merely a shadow of what they should be, and what deserves to be called a C-team. However, I would hesitate calling ANY national team a "B"-or "C"-team, as long as they bring their A game. And in the end, you can have all of the biggest stars of the world collected in one dream team, and you could still end up getting your ass kicked by a ragtag bunch of misfits. Besides, if you'd look at our roster, it's nowhere near the ultimate Team Finland on paper. We're lacking names such as S. Koivu, Selänne, T. Ruutu, Vatanen, Timonen, Pitkänen and much more. That, and the fact that so-called "best non-NHL player in the world" Mikael "FBJ" Granlund has been sub-par doesn't help at all.

Here's some food for thought, though: We could run a goalie tandem of Rinne-Lehtonen, have Bäckström as a 3rd goalie and afford to leave Niemi home. That should indicate where we are now vs our "dream team". Besides, all-star teams never work. Simple fact of life.

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05-11-2012, 09:53 PM
  #87
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A Canadian displaying marks of unjustified arrogance... that's new.

Edit: Puhis, I think Kipper would outperform Niemi as a home goalie. I'd suggest Niemi as a backup home goalie.


Last edited by fpfish: 05-11-2012 at 10:02 PM.
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05-11-2012, 09:56 PM
  #88
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Well, to my mind it was a quite an ok game from us, surprisingly Lehtonen wasn't in his typical form and let a couple of softish goals, without them we probably would have won. About Granlund... I don't know, if there is no injury it looks that he has simply lost his all his self-confidence - even so he creates every now and then great chances for his line mates. Though against Canada he didn't do even that. I just hope that he would get back to his old self but there is not much time left in this tournament... Anyway, so far so pretty ok. The USA looks now to our likely QF opponent, if so it could have been much worse, but the pressures will be massive in front of home audience.

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05-11-2012, 09:56 PM
  #89
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Some notes.

- Taivainen is.......
- I think it's good for us that the game was high-scoring. Our boys gained some confidence putting for on Canada's net.
- Lehtonen wasn't bad but wasn't great either and that's usually not enough to win games like these. Our D was worse than Lehtonen on those goals, imo. None of the goals were softs, imo, though some he could have saved.. But that's the thing with every goal.
- Their pk sucked when we started moving the puck and legs in their zone. One could assume that's the same thing against US (hoping the reason is rink size).
- Their D was bad in their zone, we should have taken more of advantage of their (mainly) slow D. Well, let's leave something for the next game.
- Assuming it was coaching staff's idea to start playing more passively after the first..
- Jalonen's inability to change something during games.. just my hallucination? Examples of opposite?
- In summary I liked how our play looked.. until we gave them a chance to get the momentum back..
- IMO the refs were not very biased
- Offense looked nice, their D bad.. both imo. But also the other way around. Our D was as good as on paper, goalies need to play at their peak for us to win, if Vehanen plays great against US, I would give the edge to him.

Idk any other way to beat the likes of Canada unless our goalie comes big, our D isn't enough and we can't keep the puck enough.


But enough of this BS, let's beat US, bros.

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05-11-2012, 09:59 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fpfish View Post
A Canadian displaying marks of unjustified arrogance... that's new.
Umm.. Wha?

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05-11-2012, 10:03 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by llwyd View Post
Well, to my mind it was a quite an ok game from us, surprisingly Lehtonen wasn't in his typical form and let a couple of softish goals, without them we probably would have won. About Granlund... I don't know, if there is no injury it looks that he has simply lost his all his self-confidence - even so he creates every now and then great chances for his line mates. Though against Canada he didn't do even that. I just hope that he would get back to his old self but there is not much time left in this tournament... Anyway, so far so pretty ok. The USA looks now to our likely QF opponent, if so it could have been much worse, but the pressures will be massive in front of home audience.
Or maybe he's just very talented 20-year old kid that isn't god? Not that he can't do better.

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05-11-2012, 10:06 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
Or maybe he's just very talented 20-year old kid that isn't god? Not that he can't do better.
Just seems weird that he would be less talented than a year go. He is now way more passive and mistake prone than he was last May. It's surely not unreasonable to expect what we know he's capable of.

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05-11-2012, 10:07 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
Umm.. Wha?
Was referring to what Mehar said.

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05-12-2012, 04:13 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mehar View Post
Just realized the game was today. Do not have time for the WHC, when the best hockey is being played right now in the Stanley Cup Playoffs. Finland should have won that game. You guys have your best players there, while we had to send a pathetic defense having watched Phanuef and Schenn all year in Toronto playing for Canada, and forwards who have no shot at being in Sochi like Ted Purcell, Land, Burrows, etc. The World Hockey Championships should not be taken that seriously. It is exhibition hockey played by players whose seasons ended early from the NHL.

European teams should be much better, since those players are familiar with each other and have much more preparation time that Team Canada or USA. Anyways, glad that our C Team beat your A Team. You guys are expected to win with your best players playing at home, while we mainly send our teams so our young players could gain experience for Sochi. 2010 was the last best on best tournament, and the next one is 2014. Just enjoy the games and no need to take it seriously since this tournament does not have the best players for every country and is meaningless in my eyes. You do have great passion for hockey which is good to see.

Hello, just wanted to point out couple of facts:

You got getzlaf, tavares, skinner, chiken nuget-hopkins and others. This is your A-team

We dont have Selänne, timonen, pitkänen, salo, s.- koivu, t. ruutu, s. vatanen, O. Jokinen, Rinne and many others, this ous our C team.


Im happy thought, that our C team almost beat and outplayed Canada's A team.
NHL sucks and no one cares about NHL playoffs anyway, everyone just hopes the teams drop out of it fast so the palyers in them can join WHC teams.

I dont give a crap about NHL or its playoffs, World Championships are the thing! The victory of it is much bigger. Everyone with common sense knows That Mika "Säkkiveikko" Nieminen is greater legend than for Example Selänne thought, because Selanne only has stanley cup, Nieminen is a freakin World Champion.

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05-12-2012, 05:02 AM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mehar View Post
Just realized the game was today. Do not have time for the WHC, when the best hockey is being played right now in the Stanley Cup Playoffs. Finland should have won that game. You guys have your best players there, while we had to send a pathetic defense having watched Phanuef and Schenn all year in Toronto playing for Canada, and forwards who have no shot at being in Sochi like Ted Purcell, Land, Burrows, etc. The World Hockey Championships should not be taken that seriously. It is exhibition hockey played by players whose seasons ended early from the NHL.

European teams should be much better, since those players are familiar with each other and have much more preparation time that Team Canada or USA. Anyways, glad that our C Team beat your A Team. You guys are expected to win with your best players playing at home, while we mainly send our teams so our young players could gain experience for Sochi. 2010 was the last best on best tournament, and the next one is 2014. Just enjoy the games and no need to take it seriously since this tournament does not have the best players for every country and is meaningless in my eyes. You do have great passion for hockey which is good to see.
Troll get out.

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05-12-2012, 05:05 AM
  #96
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To be fair to PIG line, i have no idea why Jalonen let them play against Getzlaf line. We had the home change and should've been able to play Koivu's line against Getzlaf's (that had so great success in the first period too).

If we just stuck with it we would've won that game.

Im guessing that against US the line will play better. Against Canada it was just a matter of being overpowered so badly physically. Spending so much time on our own zone and when they had the change to attack Immonen and Pesonen were out of gas and Granlund couldnt do anything with the puck.

We dont have much more choices than to stick with this line now. If we start shuffling lines its going to get messy. Its just a matter of getting the PIG line against the right line, or the worst line.

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05-12-2012, 05:35 AM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupyFIN View Post
First one that came to mind when thinking about a song without lyrics played there.

If that's what you meant by instrumental?

I realy dont know what type of song it is but I think its instumental, u can hear some seconds of the song here.

http://watch.tsn.ca/international-hockey/#clip677161 (Time 21:13 - 21:19)

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05-12-2012, 06:42 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Reini29 View Post
To be fair to PIG line, i have no idea why Jalonen let them play against Getzlaf line. We had the home change and should've been able to play Koivu's line against Getzlaf's (that had so great success in the first period too).
Maybe it was not the line itself, but the D pairing Jalonen had decided to play behind 'em. Väänänen-Järvinen was the only one that didn't seem to have trouble responding to Canada's physicality and aggressive forechecking.

Sure, nothing dictates you can't shuffle the D pairings, but that's Jalonen for ya. He wants to keep the whole unit together.

Besides, it's not like the Getzlaf line was even the most dangerous unit Canada had. One led by Tavares was.


And I actually think it's not our players who are the source of the problems. It's the game plan, or "Meidän Peli", as they put it. It constantly seems to collapse under aggressive forechecking. For example, Sweden and Russia have employed it against us with success earlier in the season. It seems a bit strange Jalonen hasn't made the necessary adjustments already.

Yeah, if that's the case, maybe he doesn't know how to make them. But regardless, I'm still going to believe he's going to figure it out. Partially because I want to believe, partially because well, like someone put it, we really don't have a choice in the matter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fr9dd9 View Post
I realy dont know what type of song it is but I think its instumental, u can hear some seconds of the song here.
It's called "Ievan Polkka", an old Finnish folk song. It has recently gained some new listeners as a popular Internet meme. Several remixes exist.

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05-12-2012, 06:53 AM
  #99
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Don't feed that Canadian troll... Poor performance from Canada for not winning by a larger margin with that roster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FiLe View Post
so you'd let Lehtonen sit for nearly a full week and then throw him straight into that game? Something tells me you'd have to get Nurminen very drunk for him to fall for that idea.
Actually yes I would. I really don't want to put Lehtonen in the first USA game, so their players won't get a feeling what works vs him and I also don't want to put Lehtonen vs a country like KAZ. He won't get shots anyway. So that game is for Rämö or Vehanen. These 2 should play the next 2 games, I don't really care about the order for first USA game & KAZ. Would be interesting to see if Rämö could shutout USA tho. Lehtonen will make up for the game break by spending little bit more time in the practises. It's better than playing KAZ.

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05-12-2012, 07:01 AM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puhis View Post

Here's some food for thought, though: We could run a goalie tandem of Rinne-Lehtonen, have Bäckström as a 3rd goalie and afford to leave Niemi home. That should indicate where we are now vs our "dream team". Besides, all-star teams never work. Simple fact of life.
You rank Backs and Nemo before Rask? Madness, son.

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