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General Talk '12 — Finland (Part II)

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Old
05-17-2012, 05:14 AM
  #201
mattihp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QnebO View Post
Agree, what has Joensuu actually done so horrible? I love the big hits he does, he can manage the puck well actually and doesnt lose every fight for it in the corners, unlike pyörälä... is just far better player in general and has shown it. I would understand Hietanen-hate of this team.. why joensuu?
Where are these Joensuu haters you are talking about? Haven't seen him yet. Just people that are worried he is injured or ill.

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05-17-2012, 07:35 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by mattihp View Post
Where are these Joensuu haters you are talking about? Haven't seen him yet. Just people that are worried he is injured or ill.
Maybe hate is a strong word, but people are talking about him being excluded from the lineup and generally a poor and negative sentiment. Only one who seemed worried about him being injured is you.

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05-17-2012, 02:24 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by Reini29 View Post
Pesonen and Immonen are both big question marks for me. I think Pesonen sucks nowdays and will slow down Granlund. Immonen is having a bad year offensively and he looks tired in these pre-tourny games against weaker opponents. Koivu and Filppula are the biggest guns for us, but who is going to score? Koivu, Filppula, Granlund, Jokinen.. everybody can pass the puck and be creative but we lack consistent scorers. I honestly dont think Immonen and Pesonen can do anything this time. I hope Joensuu scores some ugly goals and turns out to be the dark horse for us.
At least i wasnt far off before the tournament.

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05-17-2012, 02:26 PM
  #204
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Jalonen HAS to break up PIG now, right? Right?

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05-17-2012, 02:27 PM
  #205
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What I'd love to see in the next game:

Filppula - Koivu - Jokinen
Komarov - Kontiola - Granlund
Kiiskinen - Kapanen - Joensuu
Pihlström - Immonen - Pyörälä
Tuppurainen

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05-17-2012, 02:36 PM
  #206
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Wow, that was a whole different Finnish squad today. Everyone played well. I thought that Joensuu has not shown anything special, but today he was succesful... I still would like to see Tuppurainen instead of Pyörälä in the squad.

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05-17-2012, 03:18 PM
  #207
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Why would Jalonen change lines after best game of the tournament?

2nd line played best game of their tournament today even they were the worst line today. Why on earth would Jalonen change 1st 4th and 3rd line?

I wouldn't play Immonen. ATM he is just too slow to play center in Jalonens team but i doubt Jalonen has balls to drop Immonen.


edit. The worst thing to do is to mix all the lines now. Thank god Jalonen is smarter than the "coaches" in hfboards.

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05-17-2012, 03:23 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by ipel View Post
The worst thing to do is to mix all the lines now. Thank god Jalonen is smarter than the "coaches" in hfboards.
It's the Jalonen doctrine. He doesn't mix lines in hopes of achieving something better. Why?

Because hope never wins you anything. It's the faith in yourself that does. You keep feeding that, and good things come your way. As we saw today.



That being said, I suppose it'd still be interesting to see what would happen if Pesonen was replaced with Tuppurainen, since I don't think it's the lack of skill or heart that's eating PIG right now. It's the lack of energy. But yeah - the rest of the lines need to stay exactly as they are.

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05-17-2012, 03:24 PM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lapa View Post
What I'd love to see in the next game:

Filppula - Koivu - Jokinen
Komarov - Kontiola - Granlund
Kiiskinen - Kapanen - Joensuu
Pihlström - Immonen - Pyörälä
Tuppurainen
Would love these lines. The most important thing is to break Pesonen - Immonen - Granlund line, it's horrible. I can't understand people here and media bashing Granlund, Immonen and Pesonen are worthless so what can MG do? Maybe everyone is shocked he hasn't done yet any lacrosse goal.

All I want is that Kontiola plays with Granlund. Joensuu or Komarov with them.

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05-17-2012, 03:53 PM
  #210
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I didn't want Joensuu to play because he hasn't been anything special outside this game. Few flashy hits and keeping the puck against weak teams isn't acomplishment. I'm glad that he scored some goals tonight even tough he was rather invisible otherwise.

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05-17-2012, 04:01 PM
  #211
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Jalonen has really got to break up the PIG line. If you have to bench them in the last 10 minutes of a QF game then they shouldn´t play together anymore. Just break them up please they clearly suck playing together.

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05-17-2012, 04:35 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Ladde View Post
Jalonen has really got to break up the PIG line. If you have to bench them in the last 10 minutes of a QF game then they shouldn´t play together anymore. Just break them up please they clearly suck playing together.
2011 ^^

The problem of the line is that Immonen is way too slow to play in high tempo games. In our game center is really important in starting the attack because 90% of the time defender gives the first pass to center. Immonen doesnt have legs against high skating teams ( ie usa and canada)

Propably the tempo will slow down for the last 2 games and PIG (ie Immonen) will play much better.

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05-17-2012, 05:50 PM
  #213
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My lines for next game:

Filppula - Koivu - Jokinen
Kiiskinen - Immonen - Granlund
Komarov - Kapanen - Pesonen
Pihlström - Kontiola - Joensuu
Tuppurainen


That Kiiskinen -> Pesonen is about the only chance I would make. Wont be disaster as long as they dont let Pyörälä play thought. Liked how bottom 6 played tonight in last 2 peroids.

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05-17-2012, 06:02 PM
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lapa View Post
What I'd love to see in the next game:

Filppula - Koivu - Jokinen
Komarov - Kontiola - Granlund
Kiiskinen - Kapanen - Joensuu
Pihlström - Immonen - Pyörälä
Tuppurainen
Good idea and on PK Immonen would be the one out, but since 3 lines worked so well tonight, I'd do this:

Filppula-Koivu-Jokinen #PP1
*Tuppurainen-Granlund-*Pyörälä
Kiiskinen-Kapanen-Komarov #PP2
Pihlström-Kontiola-Joensuu
13th forward: *Pesonen
Out of line up: *Immonen

As much as I like Immonen, it's not his year. Try again next year for him and he should develop some speed in the summer also. PIG is too big liability. So 3 lines stays the same as they were in the USA QF and only 1 line is touched. The problem may not be in Pesonen, but we need to DESTROY this line any way possible if we want to beat Russia and I think this is the best way as it doesn't affect other lines' chemistry. Didn't Granlund play center in HIFK a lot this year or was he a winger more? I can't remember.

Jalonen isn't going to do that though. Yeah don't get the SM-Liiga MVP and keep your sauna buddy Immonen. Sigh... However there's a chance that PIG will perform A LOT better vs non North-American teams, but PIG wasn't that great in the SVK game either so that's a sign of something. Jalonen will keep PIG together, because that line eliminated Russia last year as well in the semis, but it's going to be a bad decision, sorry. If this lottery is going to hit and PIG will be on fire Jalonen will look like a genius though, but if they fail and we lose to Russia he deserves some criticism for keeping that line together too long.

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05-17-2012, 06:13 PM
  #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QnebO View Post
Filppula - Koivu - Jokinen
Kiiskinen - Immonen - Granlund
Komarov - Kapanen - Pesonen
Pihlström - Kontiola - Joensuu
Tuppurainen
I don't like it, because it affects 2 lines after our succesful USA game. We are also risking in sacrificing Kiiskinen. He might be just a shadow instead of valuable player in that line. We don't need to take that risk and can't afford to sacrifice 1 of our best players at this point. So break PIG completely. 2 players out, 1 stays and bye bye problems.

Like in my previous post, create this line: Tuppurainen-Granlund-Pyörälä and they won't play PP. Pesonen could be tested instead of Pyörälä at some point of the next game though, especially if Russia is like 5-0'ing us or we are 5-0'ing Russia it could be tested for the bronze/gold game.

Would you guys play Salmela in the bronze/gold game and go back to 8 defenders? I think Jalonen will do that and it's OK decision IMO. However I hope that Väänänen-Järvinen and Kukkonen-Jaakola minutes will be quite high compared to the group stage like they were in the last game.


Last edited by Mestaruus: 05-17-2012 at 06:22 PM.
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05-17-2012, 07:52 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Mestaruus View Post
Would you guys play Salmela in the bronze/gold game and go back to 8 defenders?
Absolutely. Maybe give him (and Niskala) a bit diminished minutes on equal strength, but I'd still rather have Salmela than a forward manning the blueline on PP.

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05-18-2012, 01:33 AM
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ipel View Post
Why would Jalonen change lines after best game of the tournament?

2nd line played best game of their tournament today even they were the worst line today. Why on earth would Jalonen change 1st 4th and 3rd line?

I wouldn't play Immonen. ATM he is just too slow to play center in Jalonens team but i doubt Jalonen has balls to drop Immonen.


edit. The worst thing to do is to mix all the lines now. Thank god Jalonen is smarter than the "coaches" in hfboards.
Because PIG is useless. By mixing lines we'd have a chance of getting 4 great lines instead of three.
And to me it seems like Immonen-Pesonen are the reasons MG is struggling atm. He's an awesome player in a wrong line.

We won't beat Russia with current PIG. I feel we have to take risks if we want to have gold.

Malkin will punish that line in a heartbeat if/when they screw up.


Last edited by Lapa: 05-18-2012 at 02:06 AM.
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05-18-2012, 04:52 AM
  #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lapa View Post
Because PIG is useless. By mixing lines we'd have a chance of getting 4 great lines instead of three.
And to me it seems like Immonen-Pesonen are the reasons MG is struggling atm. He's an awesome player in a wrong line.

We won't beat Russia with current PIG. I feel we have to take risks if we want to have gold.

Malkin will punish that line in a heartbeat if/when they screw up.
Just change Pesonen and Kiiskinen if you wanna win like I said.


I agree on ipel that you cant change all the lines now totally.. The bottom lines were great in this game after the first peroid rush of americans. They must be kept with minium changes. They won the game for us, not only with the goals, but with their play.

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05-18-2012, 05:19 AM
  #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QnebO View Post
Just change Pesonen and Kiiskinen if you wanna win like I said.


I agree on ipel that you cant change all the lines now totally.. The bottom lines were great in this game after the first peroid rush of americans. They must be kept with minium changes. They won the game for us, not only with the goals, but with their play.
I'd scratch Pesonen. The guy doesn't bring any extra. Also right now,
Immonen < Kontiola.
Perhaps scratch Pesonen and bring Kiiskinen to 2nd?
Tuppurainen to 3rd line.
Switch Immonen and Kontiola. Maybe then we could see better 2nd line?

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05-18-2012, 07:08 AM
  #220
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I would have liked to see changes before this game but not anymore. We are all set and go with what we have now. And I don't think Jalonen will change anything either.

Imo PIG wasn't that bad, don't know why Jalonen benched them. But it's the results that matter not methods.

I think mixing lines would be too much of a risk, they lines would have to click immediately for it to be profitable.

We are going by will now, not skill.

I hope Russia has their Petry/Butler tandem.

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05-18-2012, 07:49 AM
  #221
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Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
I would have liked to see changes before this game but not anymore. We are all set and go with what we have now. And I don't think Jalonen will change anything either.

Imo PIG wasn't that bad, don't know why Jalonen benched them. But it's the results that matter not methods.

I think mixing lines would be too much of a risk, they lines would have to click immediately for it to be profitable.

We are going by will now, not skill.

I hope Russia has their Petry/Butler tandem.
Hockey Night stated that they didn't really get benched. It was because it was the end of a game so they increased the ice time of the lines that were on fire.

Btw, no changes in tomorrow's lines

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05-18-2012, 08:23 AM
  #222
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Originally Posted by Lapa View Post
Because PIG is useless. By mixing lines we'd have a chance of getting 4 great lines instead of three.
Or zero.

Seriously, mixing up in a radical manner is a high risk, high reward type of move that rarely translates from paper to reality as intended. That's why no professional coach goes for it this far in the tournament unless forced to try something desperate.

If something was to be done to PIG (which Jalonen doesn't intend to do), it was to be done with those pieces that currently don't have room in the lines that work.

I'd like to see two things, and both involve Tuppurainen. Either replace Pesonen with him, or bench Immonen and move Granlund down to middle.

However, they did show signs of improving in the last game, and Russia will be a wholly different opponent. And in case they keep underachieving, Jalonen did show that he doesn't shy from setting aside the whole line. What comes to team coherence, it's a far better move than mixing lines, especially since those other three units can execute Meidän Peli just fine.

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05-18-2012, 08:26 AM
  #223
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Yeah i think its too late to break up PIG now. Our 3rd and 4th lines were great and PIG didnt suck so much. Russia is again different than north american teams and Immonen plays in Russia so im confident that he'll play his best game of this tournament.

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05-18-2012, 09:16 AM
  #224
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Yeah, maybe I'm an extremist. Anyways, they won't change the lines for tomorrow's game as I mentioned earlier, so that's the end of that discussion.

I just don't like Pesonen anymore.. I did at first, but since he's been so useless, I feel like we'd have better options for our top 6.

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05-18-2012, 09:18 AM
  #225
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Originally Posted by Lapa View Post
I feel like we'd have better options for our top 6.
Where?

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