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2012 NHL Entry Draft Talk 13.0

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Old
05-15-2012, 06:06 PM
  #726
le_sean
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Originally Posted by FiveForDrawingBlood View Post
No need to trade Plekanec to draft another d-man at 6. We should be able to get a good one at 33. Somebody like Maatta or Thrower. Defenseman are harder to judge, they probably end up as good or better career than Trouba. We need Plekanec for another year then trade him once Galchenyuk is ready
Maatta will be going Top 15. Maybe even Top 10 at this point.

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05-15-2012, 06:29 PM
  #727
Beendair Donedat
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Originally Posted by FiveForDrawingBlood View Post
No need to trade Plekanec to draft another d-man at 6. We should be able to get a good one at 33. Somebody like Maatta or Thrower. Defenseman are harder to judge, they probably end up as good or better career than Trouba. We need Plekanec for another year then trade him once Galchenyuk is ready
Actually if we trade Plekanec now, there is a need for him in Anaheim, and they become contenders without giving up a roster player. We get a great pick who fits in with our timeline of becoming contenders ourselves. We can use that to get a great defenseman (my preference) and have an elite defense prospect pool. Let both the prospects develop, and draft high again in 2013. We should be true contenders in 2014. I think that we should build now, absorb a couple of rough seasons and come back replenished.

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05-15-2012, 06:38 PM
  #728
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
The other thing that worries some teams about Grigorenko is that there are genuine questions about his actual age. From a very rural area of Russia with a mother who allegedly works in the documentation office. Older kids have said they played hockey with him as youths......

As one scout said to me recently..."He was the best 19-year-old in the Q this season and next year he'll be the best overager."

Pretty tough to prove one way or another obviously, but there have been loud whispers from scouts about this for a long time.
Sad to see that the "birthers" have turned their attention to hockey. Such unfounded allegations or "questions" deserve nothing more than to be met with outright ridicule or, at the very least, scepticism. If there is some evidence to back up this allegation, it should be presented. Otherwise, why even mention it? In addition, using a term such as "genuine" in relation to a unfounded rumour seems to me to have been a very poor choice of word and reflects badly on the person(s) who use it in that context.

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05-15-2012, 06:39 PM
  #729
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don't want to trade plekanec but if we do trade him for the 6th. I'd much rather draft TT with it. The thought of drafting Galchenyuk and Teravainen is very appealing. But still not a fan of trading one of the best two way centers in the league for potential.

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05-15-2012, 06:45 PM
  #730
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don't want to trade plekanec but if we do trade him for the 6th. I'd much rather draft TT with it. The thought of drafting Galchenyuk and Teravainen is very appealing. But still not a fan of trading one of the best two way centers in the league for potential.
It's certainly a tough choice. One would think Eller is ready to take the next step and be a similar player.

I just don't know if the Habs can be contenders in the near future, so maybe they should try and trade Plekanec when there are several teams clamoring for a player like him.

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05-15-2012, 06:50 PM
  #731
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
The most surprising thing is how Button downgraded his boy Forsberg, who he has loved since the Hlinka tournament, from 3 to 7 in a span of 1 month. Would love to know why. It's odd, I was anti-Forsberg most of the time, but have opened up to picking him after seeing him step it up against the Finns and Russians at the U-18, yet his staunchest supporter tumbles him down.

Not sure why people are shocked at the Murray ranking, he's had him around there the last few months. Button does not see a top pairing defenceman in Murray, he has said he feels he is Dan Hamhuis-like more than anything.
I believe his reason for downgrading Forsberg was purely because he values centermen more than wingers. At least this is what he said on tsn.

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05-15-2012, 06:52 PM
  #732
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Isn't it a better idea to trade plekanec for a high 1st in next years draft that looks crazy with mackinnon, barkov, jones...etc?

That gives us a year to develop this years prospect.

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05-15-2012, 06:54 PM
  #733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Isn't it a better idea to trade plekanec for a high 1st in next years draft that looks crazy with mackinnon, barkov, jones...etc?

That gives us a year to develop this years prospect.
Next year, we'll all say, "Isn't it a better idea to trade Plekanec for a high first in next year's draft that looks crazy with XXX, XXX, XXX...etc?"

It's the same thing every year; next year's draft looks better than this year's.

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05-15-2012, 07:01 PM
  #734
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Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
Next year, we'll all say, "Isn't it a better idea to trade Plekanec for a high first in next year's draft that looks crazy with XXX, XXX, XXX...etc?"

It's the same thing every year; next year's draft looks better than this year's.
But next year's draft is better






(repeat again next June)

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05-15-2012, 07:02 PM
  #735
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Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
Actually if we trade Plekanec now, there is a need for him in Anaheim, and they become contenders without giving up a roster player. We get a great pick who fits in with our timeline of becoming contenders ourselves. We can use that to get a great defenseman (my preference) and have an elite defense prospect pool. Let both the prospects develop, and draft high again in 2013. We should be true contenders in 2014. I think that we should build now, absorb a couple of rough seasons and come back replenished.
6th pick would be like saying 3rd best defenseman in draft for Plekanec? I would pass unless somebody was still there at 6 who was rated much higher. Trouba or Reinhart wouldn't be enough to part with Plekanec. He's too good of a player and a risk they could be next Cam Barker

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05-15-2012, 07:08 PM
  #736
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Originally Posted by FiveForDrawingBlood View Post
6th pick would be like saying 3rd best defenseman in draft for Plekanec? I would pass unless somebody was still there at 6 who was rated much higher. Trouba or Reinhart wouldn't be enough to part with Plekanec. He's too good of a player and a risk they could be next Cam Barker
But..but...if Grigs is still OTB?







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05-15-2012, 07:16 PM
  #737
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Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
Next year, we'll all say, "Isn't it a better idea to trade Plekanec for a high first in next year's draft that looks crazy with XXX, XXX, XXX...etc?"

It's the same thing every year; next year's draft looks better than this year's.
So who would be our 1st line centre next season? My way we atleast get to develop galchenyuk or whoever we take without having desharnais on the top line.

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05-15-2012, 07:47 PM
  #738
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Huh...Khabarovsk is a city of nearly 600,000 people.
A scout told me it was an isolated part of Russia. Apologies if the term rural is inaccurate. His point was that it was hard to prove one way or another if the runours might be true.

BTW - I'm not out to sabotage Grigorenko...I'd first heard the whispers about his age months ago from more than one scout, but they have not gone away.

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Old
05-15-2012, 07:55 PM
  #739
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
A scout told me it was an isolated part of Russia. Apologies if the term rural is inaccurate. His point was that it was hard to prove one way or another if the runours might be true.

BTW - I'm not out to sabotage Grigorenko...I'd first heard the whispers about his age months ago from more than one scout, but they have not gone away.
No worries.

It's indeed going to be hard to prove he is older than listed I would imagine. NHL teams would probably need to have rock solid intel in his hometown.

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Old
05-15-2012, 07:56 PM
  #740
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
A scout told me it was an isolated part of Russia. Apologies if the term rural is inaccurate. His point was that it was hard to prove one way or another if the runours might be true.

BTW - I'm not out to sabotage Grigorenko...I'd first heard the whispers about his age months ago from more than one scout, but they have not gone away.
What I know about the area....Khabarovsk is a pretty big city, certainly not one building or something, but it's basically surrounded by nowhere. "Khabarovsk" is also the name of the surrounding administrative region that, outside of the city itself, it mainly rural.

I have no idea where Grigorenko is from besides being from that area. It's a major city with a big cultural and night life scene so it's not like he was born away from everything but when we are talking about the Russia far east, cities are often isolated. It's hundreds of KMs away from any other big cities. It makes distances in Canada look small by comparison. So it's very possible they can get away with..bending the rules out there.

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Old
05-15-2012, 08:19 PM
  #741
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This post states he was already 6'2' in March 2009 (over 3 years ago)...makes you wonder if he was older than 14 then considering he has only grown an inch since.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1&postcount=11

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05-15-2012, 08:35 PM
  #742
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Elliot Friedman writes about the Russian factor...

10. One storyline got a little out of control last week. It's ridiculous to say that you can't win with Russians, just as it's ridiculous to say that people were "piling on" them. The fact is this: more than any other "hockey nationality," you have to do your research -- because Russian players have a legitimate financial option others don't. A lot of them want to play in the NHL and compete hard for the Cup. Some don't. If you're wrong, you could get burned by a player who is willing to flout the rules because he sees no consequence

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05-15-2012, 08:36 PM
  #743
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
This post states he was already 6'2' in March 2009 (over 3 years ago)...makes you wonder if he was older than 14 then considering he has only grown an inch since.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1&postcount=11
It actually says 6'1 or 6'2 and 180lbs.,guesswork IMO like some I've heard before where a player could be anywhere from 5'10-6'1.All in the eyes of the beholder.

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05-15-2012, 08:45 PM
  #744
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Originally Posted by FiveForDrawingBlood View Post
6th pick would be like saying 3rd best defenseman in draft for Plekanec? I would pass unless somebody was still there at 6 who was rated much higher. Trouba or Reinhart wouldn't be enough to part with Plekanec. He's too good of a player and a risk they could be next Cam Barker
Third best defenseman? What? I doubt there are two defensemen taken in the draft before the sixth overall selection. This draft is loaded with defensive prospects. I think both Reinhart and Trouba world both easily be available at the sixth spot and I don't see either player being a Can't Barker.

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05-15-2012, 08:53 PM
  #745
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the guy sux. He only led the OHL in +/- and his Knights to an OHL title and a shot at the Memorial Cup. see he sux because he only scored 5 goals all year.
Plus leadership and size are over-rated.

Mark Hunter was on HockeyCentral@Noon today. He couldn't say enough good things about Tinordi's leadership and ability to understand the big picture.

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05-15-2012, 08:56 PM
  #746
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Honestly, when it comes to Plekanec...if one of the teams in the top 10 would give their 1st AND their 2nd this year OR 3rd next year I'd be fine with them trading him.

If not, just keep him. I love him as a player, but if Desharnais and Eller continue to progress and they draft a center this year the most logical course of action would be to trade PLekanec.

Anaheim and Minnesota both strike me as teams where he'd be a good fit

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05-15-2012, 09:30 PM
  #747
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Marc Bergevin has to clear any trades after consulting with his staff which isn't complete just yet and trading the best player IMO isn't the way to start.There are many ways to procure a top ten pick without dealing away part of the core players.

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Old
05-15-2012, 09:34 PM
  #748
Beendair Donedat
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Plekanec isn't close to being their best player. Price, Subban, Pacioretty are all better and more "core" players IMO.

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05-15-2012, 09:46 PM
  #749
Physical HABuse
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
A scout told me it was an isolated part of Russia. Apologies if the term rural is inaccurate. His point was that it was hard to prove one way or another if the runours might be true.

BTW - I'm not out to sabotage Grigorenko...I'd first heard the whispers about his age months ago from more than one scout, but they have not gone away.
With regards to this rumour of age fabrication, I am not sure I can buy it. I can appreciate that he comes from an isolated city and his mother works in the documentation office. However, he is still a hockey player in Russia. They keep track of their young talent and eligibility for junior tournaments, not to mention draft eligibility for the KHL. Don't some of these kids join junior hockey training camps at a very young age? How do you pull a fast one on all those Russian hockey officials as well? This isn't some Venezuelan kid that is poorly scouted as he's growing up playing baseball in some village somewhere, after all.

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05-15-2012, 10:01 PM
  #750
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With regards to this rumour of age fabrication, I am not sure I can buy it. I can appreciate that he comes from an isolated city and his mother works in the documentation office. However, he is still a hockey player in Russia. They keep track of their young talent and eligibility for junior tournaments, not to mention draft eligibility for the KHL. Don't some of these kids join junior hockey training camps at a very young age? How do you pull a fast one on all those Russian hockey officials as well? This isn't some Venezuelan kid that is poorly scouted as he's growing up playing baseball in some village somewhere, after all.
Same way a kid in the little league world series does it false documents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny_Almonte

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_fabrication

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