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russian developing programme

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Old
05-07-2012, 06:16 PM
  #1
vorky
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russian developing programme

Seminar about russian developing programme takes place in Helsinki during WHC. Vladimir Yurzinov as a leader.

Topic:
- problems of russian hockey
- how to solve problems?
- world hockey trends
- developing world class players
- education of coaches
http://mhl.khl.ru/news/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=137407

what do you think about it? Is it start of changes in russian developing programme?


Last edited by vorky: 05-08-2012 at 05:16 AM.
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05-07-2012, 08:30 PM
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cska78
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tough one, I will give it a crack with the problems:
1) blatnie players
2) lack of systematic approach, while creativity is a good thing, a player must be able to play within the system and there has to be a system, Russia lacks that and it takes forever for players on different NTs to get acclimated to each other, while leading development systems today have no problems getting quick chemistry (good example Canada's Spengler Cup teams that play quite well together while often being from different leagues and seing each other like a day or two before the tournament)
3) coaches - it's very common for a just retired player to start teaching kids without much knowledge, experience or schooling.
4) lack of available ice
5) expanses, hockey is an expansive sport and schools are no longer providing the equipment like it used to be back in the good ol' USSR

I wonder how much of this will be covered...I guess a lot will be bluh-bluh-bluh

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05-08-2012, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cska78 View Post
tough one, I will give it a crack with the problems:
1) blatnie players
This one exists in hockey almost everywhere. Here in Canada, I've played with guys who were given spots on teams who were less skilled than junior C players. Rychel is the big one I can think of, he was practicing with the Spitfires (OHL) when he was 14 because his dad owns the team! ...like he wasn't going to get a spot on the #1 line next to Kokhlachev when he was old enough. I also skated with him and can tell you that there were guys who were currently playing in the NAHL who were so much better than him it wasn't even funny. He will get a free walk through life and trick everyone into thinking he is good because of his old man. Size is his only asset.
...Then in the past OHL draft, a chief scout (my former junior coach) who works for x OHL team saw their team draft a kid who's dad is that scouts boss (both work for same financial firm).

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05-08-2012, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by malkinfan View Post
This one exists in hockey almost everywhere. Here in Canada, I've played with guys who were given spots on teams who were less skilled than junior C players. Rychel is the big one I can think of, he was practicing with the Spitfires (OHL) when he was 14 because his dad owns the team! ...like he wasn't going to get a spot on the #1 line next to Kokhlachev when he was old enough. I also skated with him and can tell you that there were guys who were currently playing in the NAHL who were so much better than him it wasn't even funny. He will get a free walk through life and trick everyone into thinking he is good because of his old man. Size is his only asset.
...Then in the past OHL draft, a chief scout (my former junior coach) who works for x OHL team saw their team draft a kid who's dad is that scouts boss (both work for same financial firm).
Although your post is somewhat true, there are things that are absolutely exagerated. Fist off, Rychel, son of an ex-NHL or son of the team owner, was a highly seen coming from midget/Jr A. He might of played on the 1st line with Kokhlachev at 17 years old, but the kid still score 40 goals.

Also, about the OHL draft, you seen these kind of thing ALL THE TIME. However, most of these guys are drafted in the later rounds, like 12 to 15. There is not much expected from these players.

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05-08-2012, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuker1980 View Post
Although your post is somewhat true, there are things that are absolutely exagerated. Fist off, Rychel, son of an ex-NHL or son of the team owner, was a highly seen coming from midget/Jr A. He might of played on the 1st line with Kokhlachev at 17 years old, but the kid still score 40 goals.

Also, about the OHL draft, you seen these kind of thing ALL THE TIME. However, most of these guys are drafted in the later rounds, like 12 to 15. There is not much expected from these players.
I don't think its exaggerated one bit. He got the gig when he was 14 2 years before he was even drafted, that is quite clear. Why was he hyped? His father no doubt. He was only taken in the first by Barrie because they were facing Windsor in the playoffs and did it out of spite, they never had any intention of using him. They forced Windsor to trade for him, why? Because his dad new that he would need to oversee his development in order to have him go pro, otherwise he goes on the 3rd line somewhere else. Like I said, he was no where near the skill or speed levels of the guys from tier 2 junior A when we were skating. What happened to his production when Kokhlachev went down with injury?
Obviously 40 goals looks good on paper, but any half decent junior A hockey player can do that if they are guaranteed a spot on the top line no matter what. Many of the fans around the area are a little ticked because they also noticed this and noticed that the success of the team has not been the priority since day 1 Rychel's been around. You can argue all you want, but I know the story from an inside perspective and its not only me who thinks this. Don't use stats to try to argue your story.

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05-08-2012, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by malkinfan View Post
I don't think its exaggerated one bit. He got the gig when he was 14 2 years before he was even drafted, that is quite clear. Why was he hyped? His father no doubt. He was only taken in the first by Barrie because they were facing Windsor in the playoffs and did it out of spite, they never had any intention of using him. They forced Windsor to trade for him, why? Because his dad new that he would need to oversee his development in order to have him go pro, otherwise he goes on the 3rd line somewhere else. Like I said, he was no where near the skill or speed levels of the guys from tier 2 junior A when we were skating. What happened to his production when Kokhlachev went down with injury?
Obviously 40 goals looks good on paper, but any half decent junior A hockey player can do that if they are guaranteed a spot on the top line no matter what. Many of the fans around the area are a little ticked because they also noticed this and noticed that the success of the team has not been the priority since day 1 Rychel's been around. You can argue all you want, but I know the story from an inside perspective and its not only me who thinks this. Don't use stats to try to argue your story.
Man...I am not arguing that Daddy Rychel didn't help Kerby there and that he's not looking at Kerby's development. But your points proves, again, that you are exagerating!

At 16, Rychel was NOT playing on the top line. He barely played a regular shift.

Half decent Jr A players can score 40 goals playing on top line!!! WOW... There was only 10 players and he was the only17 y o, that score 40 in the O last year... that Half a player per team... not Half Jr A players. Otherwise they would be at least 40 players with 40 goals.

Rychel was a legit top 30-40 prospect coming in his draft year. Windsor, as request by the OHL, advised all the other team that it would draft Kerby with their second round pick 27th I think, but Barrie scoop it at 21 because there was a feud between Barrie and Windsor (can't remember why).

An finally, this is Kokhlachev 2nd year in the O. Again, saying that he had his sport beside Kokhlachev at 14 is false. When Rychel was 14, Kokhlachev was still in Russia and was 15.

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05-08-2012, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by tuker1980 View Post
Man...I am not arguing that Daddy Rychel didn't help Kerby there and that he's not looking at Kerby's development. But your points proves, again, that you are exagerating!

At 16, Rychel was NOT playing on the top line. He barely played a regular shift.

Half decent Jr A players can score 40 goals playing on top line!!! WOW... There was only 10 players and he was the only17 y o, that score 40 in the O last year... that Half a player per team... not Half Jr A players. Otherwise they would be at least 40 players with 40 goals.

Rychel was a legit top 30-40 prospect coming in his draft year. Windsor, as request by the OHL, advised all the other team that it would draft Kerby with their second round pick 27th I think, but Barrie scoop it at 21 because there was a feud between Barrie and Windsor (can't remember why).

An finally, this is Kokhlachev 2nd year in the O. Again, saying that he had his sport beside Kokhlachev at 14 is false. When Rychel was 14, Kokhlachev was still in Russia and was 15.
So... how is the russian developing programme doing?

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05-08-2012, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuker1980 View Post
An finally, this is Kokhlachev 2nd year in the O. Again, saying that he had his sport beside Kokhlachev at 14 is false. When Rychel was 14, Kokhlachev was still in Russia and was 15.
Whatever man, saying his dad helped him is an understatement. I played with this kid, he was not that good in comparison to other players. He has developed into an okay player but so would many other guys if they got the same opportunity. I said he was practicing with the spits when he was 14, so basically being prepped for his first line role. One of the top scorers from CIS this past season (as a rookie) was one of the junior guys who was 10x better than him in every department at that time, and will go on to play pro, but was completely looked over in the OHL draft and never got a crack at the O. My point being that if players like this got to play on the 1st line and have no fear of losing their spot if they screw up, they may be superstars in the O as well. If only people could see some of the talent out there that never gets a chance because their daddy's are nobodies. There are a handful of them in CIS.

And about my second example, yes many go in the latter rounds, but this was more of a mid round pick, and I bet that he plays. There is serious money involved in this case, the father has clients with serious $ and will share if his son goes far.
Basically there is almost nowhere where the best kids don't get spots. It also starts at the grassroots level with minor AAA. People with connections go furthest.

I'm not saying every kid with a dad who was an NHLer gets there kid a spot, look at Domi, this kid is legit exceptional and his dad didn't need to own teams or have to control his entire development.

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05-09-2012, 04:27 AM
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05-09-2012, 07:20 AM
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sounds interesting

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05-09-2012, 10:14 AM
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tuker1980
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Originally Posted by malkinfan View Post
One of the top scorers from CIS this past season (as a rookie) was one of the junior guys who was 10x better than him in every department at that time, and will go on to play pro, but was completely looked over in the OHL draft and never got a crack at the O. My point being that if players like this got to play on the 1st line and have no fear of losing their spot if they screw up, they may be superstars in the O as well. If only people could see some of the talent out there that never gets a chance because their daddy's are nobodies. There are a handful of them in CIS.
Ok... dude... again exagerating.

My guess is that CIS player you are talking about is Evan Stibbard. Finished 28 in scoring in CIS averaging a point a game. Is best year was in Jr A but... 61 pts in 49 games at 20 y o. He's 4 years older than Kerby. At 17, Kerby put up 41 goals and 74 pts in the O... not Jr A. To say that the guy is 10 x better than Kerby.. yeah maybe 4 years ago but dude.. you might hate the guy because of daddy but give him his props.

There are a bunch of 15 y o who develop later. Some guys get draft in later rounds in the O but turn out to be 1st rounder in the NHL...Each guy have their own development curve. Yeah daddy Rychel helped, but the kid does have talent.

Stop hating...

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05-09-2012, 10:43 AM
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What's written there?

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