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Flames Rebuild

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Old
05-09-2012, 01:19 AM
  #126
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Old
05-09-2012, 01:32 AM
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bugg;49478493[B
]It's a shame this thread had to be derailed by a poster who will be experiencing the bitter taste of banhammer momentarily[/B], because this is an excellent topic for discussion.

Feaster doesn't believe in a traditional rebuild. I don't fully understand why as he was the benefactor of one and heralded Tampa through another, but if any GM in the league can perform a mini-rebuild it's him.

In that sense, trading Iginla isn't really rebuilding. He's a pending UFA, and teams out of playoff position trade him with regularity. He's a bigger name than most, sure, but I'd imagine his first and only thought come July 1st would be to return to Calgary.

Kipper is another story. I'm of the opinion you sell high on an asset like that, especially with a bluechip prospect in Irving ready for minutes and another in Brossoit not far behind.

If Iginla's traded, I think the price will be about what it's been for similar rentals over the years- picks and prospects that work out to three 1st rounders/former 1st rounders. It's a shot in the arm for a prospect pool that certainly could use it; while rather deep on potential, there's a steep gulf between the top two or three and the rest.

Bartschi is a tremendous talent and will help ease some of the burden of succeeding 100% next June. Cervenka, Horak and Backlund are a middling group but I'd imagine one of them becomes a regular contributor. That's another great help. CHL Free Agency is a route Calgary's been trying the last couple of years (ie Lance Bouma, Carter Bancks) and could further add depth.

If I'm Feaster, I look at my roster like this:

Code:
Tanguay-Cammalleri-Iginla
Glencross-Stajan-FA
Bartschi-Backlund/Cervenka-FA
Horak-Backlund/Cervenka-Nemisz/Jackman
Nemisz/Jackman, Bouma

Bouwmeester-Giordano
Babchuk-Butler
Brodie-Smith
Breen/Wilson

Kipper
Karlsson
Irving
Green meaning a-okay, yellow meaning an upgrade if possible, red meaning an immediate fix is required.

Assuming none of the assets Iginla acquires at next year's deadline slot in at RW immediately- and assuming Kipper stays put- the following will be UFAs in July of '13 should they not re-up:

RW:

-Corey Perry
-Nathan Horton
-PM Bouchard
-Ryane Clowe
-Michael Ryder
-Colby Armstrong
-David Clarkson
-Troy Brouwer
-Danny Cleary
-Dainius Zubrus

Second-pairing PMD:

-Lubomir Visnovsky
-Sergei Gonchar
-Ron Hainsey
-Ryan Whitney
-Tobias Enstrom
-Alex Edler
-Ian White
-Jordan Leopold
-Marek Zidlicky

There are lots of options, and surely at least a couple names from each list will hit free agency. I also am a big believer in Patrick Holland and he should slot in somewhere, along with Max Reinhart (perhaps in Stajan's spot). If Feaster stays the course with only an Iginla trade, I don't know that the Flames will be anyone's favorites to win a Cup, but I think they could build a competitive roster that has the intangibles to go on a run.



Delete post.


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Old
05-09-2012, 02:02 AM
  #128
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Meanwhile,skip ahead a year and nothing will change,the flames will once again finish way higher in the standings than the oilers but once again will say the flames have no future and they have an awesome core going forward...man, this song and dance is tiring after all these years.

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05-09-2012, 02:10 AM
  #129
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This thread is embarrassing for both Flames' fans and Oilers' fans everywhere. Congratulations to the contributors.

How to rebuild is a matter of personal opinion, it's an endless and pointless argument as multiple methods have worked in the past and this trend will continue in the future.

To educate the Flames' fans:
- Oilers have an incredibly bright future and no matter how hard you try to negatively judge their "method", it's not going to change this FACT. They're future is bright whether you like it or not and as it stands right now, they are in a much, much, much better spot than Calgary in terms of potential. The truth is, they're going to be quite a bit better than CGY in a couple years whether you think their "rebuilding method" is "shameful/pathetic/etc" or not, so start preparing.

To educate the Oilers' fans:
- That beings said, yes it is true that the Flames organization is not in great condition right now, but despite what you think, the team is also building a brighter future (albeit at a significantly slower rate than EDM). The drafting in the past few years has increased tremendously and we have been getting good value out of the picks we have had considering the place in the draft they were selecting. Hate on Feaster all you want, but so far, not saying it will last, about 90% of the moves he has made have been good moves that positively build towards the future.

It's like you people enjoy arguing as if it were a sport itself.

Basically one team is doing the rebuild one way and the other team is doing it another way. There is no 'right' or 'wrong', sorry to break it to you. This thread should be closed for ten years, then maybe after that next decade we can start arguing who's rebuild was better.


Last edited by Trae: 05-09-2012 at 02:18 AM.
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Old
05-09-2012, 02:14 AM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trae View Post
This thread is embarrassing for both Flames' fans and Oilers' fans everywhere. Congratulations to the contributors.

How to rebuild is a matter of personal opinion, it's an endless and pointless argument as multiple methods have worked in the past and this trend will continue in the future.

To educate the Flames' fans:
- Oilers have an incredibly bright future and no matter how hard you try to negatively judge their "method", it's not going to change this FACT. They're future is bright whether you like it or not and as it stands right now, they are in a much, much, much better spot than Calgary in terms of potential. The truth is, they're going to be better than CGY in a couple years, so start preparing.

To educate the Oilers' fans:
- That beings said, yes it is true that the Flames organization is not in great condition right now, but despite what you think, the team is also building a brighter future (albeit at a significantly slower rate than EDM). The drafting in the past few years has increased tremendously and we have been getting good value out of the picks we have had considering the place in the draft they were selecting. Hate on Feaster all you want, but so far, not saying it will last, about 90% of the moves he has made have been good moves that positively build towards the future.

It's like you people enjoy arguing as if it were a sport itself.



It's funny in a way that the rivalry between the Oilers and Flames on the ice is dead,but between the fans of both teams,it is still going strong without any signs of ending.

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05-09-2012, 02:31 AM
  #131
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On topic of the thread:

Considering that I don't believe it will necessarily be a full rebuild, I am also under the impression, as an earlier poster mentioned, one of the big two will be traded (Kipper in my opinion) to bring in whatever we can in terms of youth/picks. From there, Feaster will continue everything he has been doing in terms of scouting and drafting to build from within allowing young players to be brought up in a semi-winning environment to benefit their development, much like he has done in Abbotsford over the past year and last off season.

Unfortunately I don't think it will be anywhere near as elaborate as many make it out to be.

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05-09-2012, 02:46 AM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
It's funny in a way that the rivalry between the Oilers and Flames on the ice is dead,but between the fans of both teams,it is still going strong without any signs of ending.
Which is rather unfortunate; the rivalry between fans is boring, primitive, and ultimately achieves nothing as no amount of arguing will have any bearing on what we see on the ice, it's irrelevant. Why we continue to wish for other organizations to fail is beyond me, does nobody want to see good competitive hockey anymore? I'm all for any style of rebuild, so long as it makes that team better, no matter what team it is. Not to say that I advocate losing to win later, but that it is out of our (the fans) control and in the end that team is better for presumably a long time, which is good!

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05-09-2012, 03:25 AM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trae View Post
This thread is embarrassing for both Flames' fans and Oilers' fans everywhere. Congratulations to the contributors.

How to rebuild is a matter of personal opinion, it's an endless and pointless argument as multiple methods have worked in the past and this trend will continue in the future.

To educate the Flames' fans:
- Oilers have an incredibly bright future and no matter how hard you try to negatively judge their "method", it's not going to change this FACT. They're future is bright whether you like it or not and as it stands right now, they are in a much, much, much better spot than Calgary in terms of potential. The truth is, they're going to be quite a bit better than CGY in a couple years whether you think their "rebuilding method" is "shameful/pathetic/etc" or not, so start preparing.

To educate the Oilers' fans:
- That beings said, yes it is true that the Flames organization is not in great condition right now, but despite what you think, the team is also building a brighter future (albeit at a significantly slower rate than EDM). The drafting in the past few years has increased tremendously and we have been getting good value out of the picks we have had considering the place in the draft they were selecting. Hate on Feaster all you want, but so far, not saying it will last, about 90% of the moves he has made have been good moves that positively build towards the future.

It's like you people enjoy arguing as if it were a sport itself.

Basically one team is doing the rebuild one way and the other team is doing it another way. There is no 'right' or 'wrong', sorry to break it to you. This thread should be closed for ten years, then maybe after that next decade we can start arguing who's rebuild was better.
great post. this is what I have been trying to say this entire thread but I am afraid like my comments, yours will also be falling upon deaf ears.

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Old
05-09-2012, 06:01 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Horton Hears A Woo View Post
the bruins would love to add iginla but not at the cost of krecji
I'm not sure of I'm catching your drift?

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Old
05-09-2012, 10:45 AM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
It's a shame this thread had to be derailed by a poster who will be experiencing the bitter taste of banhammer momentarily, because this is an excellent topic for discussion.

Feaster doesn't believe in a traditional rebuild. I don't fully understand why as he was the benefactor of one and heralded Tampa through another, but if any GM in the league can perform a mini-rebuild it's him.

In that sense, trading Iginla isn't really rebuilding. He's a pending UFA, and teams out of playoff position trade him with regularity. He's a bigger name than most, sure, but I'd imagine his first and only thought come July 1st would be to return to Calgary.

Kipper is another story. I'm of the opinion you sell high on an asset like that, especially with a bluechip prospect in Irving ready for minutes and another in Brossoit not far behind.

If Iginla's traded, I think the price will be about what it's been for similar rentals over the years- picks and prospects that work out to three 1st rounders/former 1st rounders. It's a shot in the arm for a prospect pool that certainly could use it; while rather deep on potential, there's a steep gulf between the top two or three and the rest.

Bartschi is a tremendous talent and will help ease some of the burden of succeeding 100% next June. Cervenka, Horak and Backlund are a middling group but I'd imagine one of them becomes a regular contributor. That's another great help. CHL Free Agency is a route Calgary's been trying the last couple of years (ie Lance Bouma, Carter Bancks) and could further add depth.

If I'm Feaster, I look at my roster like this:

Code:
Tanguay-Cammalleri-Iginla
Glencross-Stajan-FA
Bartschi-Backlund/Cervenka-FA
Horak-Backlund/Cervenka-Nemisz/Jackman
Nemisz/Jackman, Bouma

Bouwmeester-Giordano
Babchuk-Butler
Brodie-Smith
Breen/Wilson

Kipper
Karlsson
Irving
Green meaning a-okay, yellow meaning an upgrade if possible, red meaning an immediate fix is required.

Assuming none of the assets Iginla acquires at next year's deadline slot in at RW immediately- and assuming Kipper stays put- the following will be UFAs in July of '13 should they not re-up:

RW:

-Corey Perry
-Nathan Horton
-PM Bouchard
-Ryane Clowe
-Michael Ryder
-Colby Armstrong
-David Clarkson
-Troy Brouwer
-Danny Cleary
-Dainius Zubrus

Second-pairing PMD:

-Lubomir Visnovsky
-Sergei Gonchar
-Ron Hainsey
-Ryan Whitney
-Tobias Enstrom
-Alex Edler
-Ian White
-Jordan Leopold
-Marek Zidlicky

There are lots of options, and surely at least a couple names from each list will hit free agency. I also am a big believer in Patrick Holland and he should slot in somewhere, along with Max Reinhart (perhaps in Stajan's spot). If Feaster stays the course with only an Iginla trade, I don't know that the Flames will be anyone's favorites to win a Cup, but I think they could build a competitive roster that has the intangibles to go on a run.
One note - the Cammalleri deal sent Holland to MTL and brought in Ramo, who should have a shot between the pipes, at least as a backup, when his KHL deal is done after next season.

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05-09-2012, 11:03 AM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
If I'm Feaster, I look at my roster like this:

Code:
Tanguay-Cammalleri-Iginla
Glencross-Stajan-FA
Bartschi-Backlund/Cervenka-FA
Horak-Backlund/Cervenka-Nemisz/Jackman
Nemisz/Jackman, Bouma

Bouwmeester-Giordano
Babchuk-Butler
Brodie-Smith
Breen/Wilson

Kipper
Karlsson
Irving
Green meaning a-okay, yellow meaning an upgrade if possible, red meaning an immediate fix is required.

Assuming none of the assets Iginla acquires at next year's deadline slot in at RW immediately- and assuming Kipper stays put- the following will be UFAs in July of '13 should they not re-up:

Second-pairing PMD:

-Lubomir Visnovsky
-Sergei Gonchar
-Ron Hainsey
-Ryan Whitney
-Tobias Enstrom
-Alex Edler
-Ian White
-Jordan Leopold
-Marek Zidlicky
Great post.

What I would add to this is that TJ Brodie is quickly developing into that second pairing PMD. He's definitely ahead of Babchuk on the depth chart. He averaged 16:28 of ice time last year. His role will most likely be expanded in the future.

The defensive pairings will most likely look like:

JBo-Butler
Gio-Brodie
Babchuk-whoever is playing well

Babchuk needs to be given sheletered minutes and brought in as a PP specialist. The Flames will also most likely sign a replacement for Sarich and Hannan....it may actually be one of those two on a short term contract. Firstly though I'd like to see them go after a guy like Wideman or Carle. If that fails, there are plenty of other options though like Stuart, Roszival, Kuba, Oduya, Corvo, Souray etc....

Basically, what I'm saying is the one thing this off season has is plenty of experienced second pairing defencemen capable of easily logging 18-21 minutes a night competently. The Flames should be able to snap one up on a relatively short term deal.

As for the complaints of squabbling between Oilers and Flames fans, I could easily bring up equally bad and illogical examples between other long time rivals. This is the internet, this is a sports forum, and what did you expect with a loaded issue like "Flames rebuild".

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05-09-2012, 11:20 AM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaStromey View Post
I'm not sure of I'm catching your drift?
Sarcasm?

The Bruins would love to add Iginla, but in no way would be sending over David Krejci as part of the package. Pick/ prosects (not named Hamilton). I think the Iginla boat has sailed, Feaster should've traded him last season or at the deadline, he would've garnered much more in a trade. Feater has made a complete mess of this once proud Franchise.

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05-09-2012, 11:45 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Sarcasm?

The Bruins would love to add Iginla, but in no way would be sending over David Krejci as part of the package. Pick/ prosects (not named Hamilton). I think the Iginla boat has sailed, Feaster should've traded him last season or at the deadline, he would've garnered much more in a trade. Feater has made a complete mess of this once proud Franchise.
To be fair, Sutter was the one that traded away the likes of Phaneuf for peanuts.

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05-09-2012, 11:54 AM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Sarcasm?

The Bruins would love to add Iginla, but in no way would be sending over David Krejci as part of the package. Pick/ prosects (not named Hamilton). I think the Iginla boat has sailed, Feaster should've traded him last season or at the deadline, he would've garnered much more in a trade. Feater has made a complete mess of this once proud Franchise.
Iginla is a better player than Krejci with a track record. I think that deal would be very fair actually but what do I know!!!

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05-09-2012, 11:54 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by magnoctophas View Post
To be fair, Sutter was the one that traded away the likes of Phaneuf for peanuts.
Cool, so Feaster can keep Iginla and shoot for 10th place again in the standings

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05-09-2012, 11:59 AM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaStromey View Post
Iginla is a better player than Krejci with a track record. I think that deal would be very fair actually but what do I know!!!
Well that's obvious. Iginla is the model of elite consistancy. Only issue is his cap hit, and his age. I am a fan of #12, I'd loooove to see him in a Bruins uniform, playing on a line with Lucic & Krejci

But, no team that is a serious contender for a Cup is going to want to give up a major piece of their current roster (Krejci) for an Iginla type acquisition. Teams at the top are going to want to add Iginla to their squad, not swap him in for an exiting piece. That's why I would offer an enticing package of picks/ prospects. But imo there's no way Boston will offer the likes of Dougie Hamilton or Tuukka Rask etc.. More like a 1st, Spooner etc..

Lucic - Krejci - Iginla (Wow)

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05-09-2012, 12:05 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Well that's obvious. Iginla is the model of elite consistancy. Only issue is his cap hit, and his age. I am a fan of #12, I'd loooove to see him in a Bruins uniform, playing on a line with Lucic & Krejci

But, no team that is a serious contender for a Cup is going to want to give up a major piece of their current roster (Krejci) for an Iginla type acquisition. Teams at the top are going to want to add Iginla to their squad, not swap him in for an exiting piece. That's why I would offer an enticing package of picks/ prospects. But imo there's no way Boston will offer the likes of Dougie Hamilton or Tuukka Rask etc.. More like a 1st, Spooner etc..

Lucic - Krejci - Iginla (Wow)
Sorry, I thought Krejci was rumored to be out of Boston with Seguin and Bergeron taking over the center duties

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05-09-2012, 01:37 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Sarcasm?

The Bruins would love to add Iginla, but in no way would be sending over David Krejci as part of the package. Pick/ prosects (not named Hamilton). I think the Iginla boat has sailed, Feaster should've traded him last season or at the deadline, he would've garnered much more in a trade. Feater has made a complete mess of this once proud Franchise.
Feaster? You realize he's only been in charge for 1 year, and he basically was totally handcuffed by the cap when he took over.

Sutter made a complete mess. Sutter.

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05-09-2012, 02:03 PM
  #144
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Sorry, I thought Krejci was rumored to be out of Boston with Seguin and Bergeron taking over the center duties
"Rumored" or not, it's irrelevant to his value.

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05-09-2012, 02:16 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Cool, so Feaster can keep Iginla and shoot for 10th place again in the standings
Sure thing champ.

And maybe Boston will have better luck next year too. Maybe Parise will magically choose to sign in Boston, lol.

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05-09-2012, 02:24 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Cool, so Feaster can keep Iginla and shoot for 10th place again in the standings
What's the point of comments like this?

Every team shoots for first overall every year. From Boston to LA to Columbus, everyone aspires to win.

Before taking aim at Calgary, perhaps you should be setting your crosshairs at some of the perpetual losers in both conferences who can't even compete for 8th they're so bad. Calgary's far from being one of those.

I know this is HF where youth takes preference over everything but God himself (which is laughable but best left for another discussion another time), but I am glad my team takes pride in competing hard and refusing to give up. As an athlete myself, you never should be 'diving' for anything. My team doesn't and never will. You play hard, you compete hard, and you do the best you can - ALL THE TIME.

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05-09-2012, 04:23 PM
  #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Sarcasm?

The Bruins would love to add Iginla, but in no way would be sending over David Krejci as part of the package. Pick/ prosects (not named Hamilton). I think the Iginla boat has sailed, Feaster should've traded him last season or at the deadline, he would've garnered much more in a trade. Feater has made a complete mess of this once proud Franchise.
before you blame someone for making a mess of a franchise at least know what you are talking about, even just a little bit.

Feaster has done nothing to hurt the franchise. He came in and was handcuffed by NMCs, NTCs and the Salary cap. He has actually done an excellent job is cleaning up that mess.

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05-09-2012, 04:48 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Medium Rare View Post
before you blame someone for making a mess of a franchise at least know what you are talking about, even just a little bit.

Feaster has done nothing to hurt the franchise. He came in and was handcuffed by NMCs, NTCs and the Salary cap. He has actually done an excellent job is cleaning up that mess.
Yeah, I'm not sure eithe how Feaster has hurt this franchise... he walked into a chaotic environment, has been and currently is weeding out the waste contracts, bringing in youth, improving the drafting strategy and surrounding himself with extremely capable people (Weisbrod, Conroy, Ward, etc.)

I really now want to know why Oates2Neely thinks 'Feaster has made a complete mess of this once proud Franchise'.

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05-09-2012, 04:56 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Ice Cream Man View Post
I really now want to know why Oates2Neely thinks 'Feaster has made a complete mess of this once proud Franchise'.
that's simple, he has no clue about the Flames and just takes HF group think as gospel.

Meaning that its all Feaster's fault for not trading Iginla, Kiprusoff and every other Flames asset just to finish lower in the standings.

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05-09-2012, 05:48 PM
  #150
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Kipper to the Leafs?

The map leafs NEED a goalie if they want to have ANY success The Calgary Flames are finally in a spot where I think they realize they need to rebuild, atleast I hope thats the case cause I live in alberta and I want to see the BOA between the oilers and flames be evenly matched in the future.

Anyway if the Flames have finally come to the conclusion that a rebuild is needed what will it take to bring Kipper to Toronto?

I don't think the Leafs are quite as bad as people say they are I feel like we have some solid parts in place but with no goalie this team can't move forward

The Leafs need somebody who can win them 30-35 games and Kipper can do that.

I know he's 35 but I feel a goalie at 35 is different then a forward or D at 35 I feel goalies can play at a high level for longer.

with that in mind what will it take to bring Kipper, a legit #1 goalie to Toronto?

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