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Well, Whatever happens in Game 7, I am proud of this team

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05-11-2012, 03:23 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
Isn't his (our) point that he (we) don't want to ignore the regular season? That the regular season drags down the overall grade, more or less?

This isn't a team that should have barely made the playoffs. That they did means they underachieved. But where they are now shouldn't be considered overachievement just because it came directly after underachievement. This postseason looks good if you think the regular season was the baseline, but the regular season should be well below the baseline.
Unfortunately the regular season IS the baseline, but some fans want to use the season before or before that, before that as the current baseline.

Sure we all believe they underachieved. What they DID achieve is right there in black and white. Win tomorrow and they've achieved a new level of success relative to the current core roster.

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05-11-2012, 03:28 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
Unfortunately the regular season IS the baseline...
Not for a team that hasn't undergone major personnel changes it isn't. The baseline for this team has been set over the last 5 years of both regular seasons and playoffs.

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05-11-2012, 03:33 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
Unfortunately the regular season IS the baseline, but some fans want to use the season before or before that, before that as the current baseline.

Sure we all believe they underachieved. What they DID achieve is right there in black and white. Win tomorrow and they've achieved a new level of success relative to the current core roster.
I won't disagree with you if they win. That would be tangible progress no matter where you look from.

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Not for a team that hasn't undergone major personnel changes it isn't. The baseline for this team has been set over the last 5 years of both regular seasons and playoffs.
Agreed, this is a big part of my point. The expectations weren't pulled out of thin air. If you want to say that the regular season failure was mostly on Backstrom being out, then you can say that. But Backstrom came back, so then you'd have to agree that the Caps expectations should be higher than a 7th seed's because of it.

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05-11-2012, 03:36 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
Not for a team that hasn't undergone major personnel changes it isn't. The baseline for this team has been set over the last 5 years of both regular seasons and playoffs.
Yup. Also as NBTW put it, it's about the progress of the franchise/team in the big picture. The season was a mess, but this core has been in place and the team around was tweaked coming into this season with progress in mind. The team is on a path it hopes leads to a Cup. It's pretty hard to argue that its making progress towards that goal if it achieves the same result it has in two of the last three seasons (yes, I know last year they were swept).

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05-11-2012, 03:37 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
Unfortunately the regular season IS the baseline, but some fans want to use the season before or before that, before that as the current baseline.

Sure we all believe they underachieved. What they DID achieve is right there in black and white. Win tomorrow and they've achieved a new level of success relative to the current core roster.
The regular season is only the baseline if you want to use it. It's surely not my baseline, and I guarantee you it's not the players' or management's baseline. The baseline should be the previous level of playoff success.

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05-11-2012, 03:44 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
The regular season is only the baseline if you want to use it. It's surely not my baseline, and I guarantee you it's not the players' or management's baseline. The baseline should be the previous level of playoff success.
which is why joel ward........

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05-11-2012, 04:02 PM
  #107
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I just may of found that there is something good if the Capitals do lose, Ovechkin will pretty much be a lock in for the Russian national team, and he will probably get put with Kuznetsov and Datsyuk.

Though the Russian national team could tell him no because of the possibility of convincing Kuznetsov otherwise on staying in the KHL.

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05-11-2012, 04:31 PM
  #108
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I just may of found
Alright, you have to just be trolling at this point.

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05-11-2012, 05:25 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
Not for a team that hasn't undergone major personnel changes it isn't. The baseline for this team has been set over the last 5 years of both regular seasons and playoffs.
Except it has undergone a very significant personnel change: Boudreau => Hunter. This season is the baseline for the future.

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05-11-2012, 05:32 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
Except it has undergone a very significant personnel change: Boudreau => Hunter. This season is the baseline for the future.
That makes absolutely no sense, whatsoever.

Hunter was brought in to replace Boudreau. Ostensibly, he was brought in to improve on Boudreau's performance, correct?

So why wouldn't Boudreau's peak performance be the baseline for the Hunter era?

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05-11-2012, 06:10 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
That makes absolutely no sense, whatsoever.

Hunter was brought in to replace Boudreau. Ostensibly, he was brought in to improve on Boudreau's performance, correct?

So why wouldn't Boudreau's peak performance be the baseline for the Hunter era?
If you're going down that road, then why shouldn't Boudreau's peak performance be compared to Hunter's peak performance instead of his first year (assuming he hasn't already hit it)?

The configuration manager in me says that when you undergo a significant change, you re-baseline. It doesn't make sense to compare a coaching era that's over with one that's just starting. If anything, what should be compared at this point are Boudreau's first season and Hunter's first season. Both took over mid-season, so it really is comparable. We can compare the full eras when Hunter's is over.

Of course, you do what you want. But I think what you're doing is probably setting you up for disappointment. I'd love it as much as the next guy if we do see immediate improvement. Yes, I do expect Hunter to exceed Boudreau's performance at some point during his tenure or I will not be satisfied. But it doesn't have to be this year (unless he doesn't return).

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05-11-2012, 06:11 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
That makes absolutely no sense, whatsoever.

Hunter was brought in to replace Boudreau. Ostensibly, he was brought in to improve on Boudreau's performance, correct?

So why wouldn't Boudreau's peak performance be the baseline for the Hunter era?
Because Hunter is a rookie coach out of the OHL mid-season...? That's probably why.

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05-11-2012, 06:56 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
If you're going down that road, then why shouldn't Boudreau's peak performance be compared to Hunter's peak performance instead of his first year (assuming he hasn't already hit it)?

The configuration manager in me says that when you undergo a significant change, you re-baseline. It doesn't make sense to compare a coaching era that's over with one that's just starting. If anything, what should be compared at this point are Boudreau's first season and Hunter's first season. Both took over mid-season, so it really is comparable. We can compare the full eras when Hunter's is over.

Of course, you do what you want. But I think what you're doing is probably setting you up for disappointment. I'd love it as much as the next guy if we do see immediate improvement. Yes, I do expect Hunter to exceed Boudreau's performance at some point during his tenure or I will not be satisfied. But it doesn't have to be this year (unless he doesn't return).
Yeah, that still makes no sense. This is not a rebuild. Hunter was brought in for one reason, and one reason only: to get the Caps over the playoff hump and win a Cup. He wasn't brought in to start over. His baseline is Boudreau's peak. If that's harsh, then so be it. I'm sure he took the job well aware of those expectations.

And the situation into which each was hired is not comparable at all. One was brought into the worst team in the league, as an interim coach. He managed to get the team over the playoff hump. The other was brought into a team that'd made four straight playoff appearances. He's now trying to get that team over the next hump.

I can't believe how soft our fanbase is getting.

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05-11-2012, 07:00 PM
  #114
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I HATE the Rangers.

Forget being "proud", you need to WIN this game!!!!

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05-11-2012, 07:02 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Yeah, that still makes no sense. This is not a rebuild. Hunter was brought in for one reason, and one reason only: to get the Caps over the playoff hump and win a Cup. He wasn't brought in to start over. His baseline is Boudreau's peak. If that's harsh, then so be it. I'm sure he took the job well aware of those expectations.

And the situation into which each was hired is not comparable at all. One was brought into the worst team in the league, as an interim coach. He managed to get the team over the playoff hump. The other was brought into a team that'd made four straight playoff appearances. He's now trying to get that team over the next hump.

I can't believe how soft our fanbase is getting.
The expectations being lowered was exactly why I didn't want them to go with a coach with no experience. Saying that the bar gets lowered is still an indictment, just a different kind. I still can't see that being pride-worthy yet, given where the team *should* be.

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05-11-2012, 07:04 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
The expectations being lowered was exactly why I didn't want them to go with a coach with no experience. Saying that the bar gets lowered is still an indictment, just a different kind. I still can't see that being pride-worthy yet, given where the team *should* be.
Well, one thing that gives some hope is that I've yet to see the expectations tempered by management or ownership. In their eyes, the Caps should be competing for Cups, not happy to get out of the first round. Hopefully it's not just something I missed.

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05-11-2012, 07:34 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Yeah, that still makes no sense. This is not a rebuild. Hunter was brought in for one reason, and one reason only: to get the Caps over the playoff hump and win a Cup.
That's an out and out lie.

There was absolutely no reason that Hunter was brought in.

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05-11-2012, 08:14 PM
  #118
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That's an out and out lie.

There was absolutely no reason that Hunter was brought in.
what?

i'd say that its pretty clear why hunter was hired. its the entire professional commitment/mental toughness part of the game.

i can quivle with many of the tactical moves and roster use that hunter has brought, but it looks a lot to me like the team is a changed group.

we all expected a dale hunter style team when he came in. we were then disappointed. they were not aggressive and dirty. well...we looking at the wrong dale values. determination and commitment was what we should have been looking at.

its there

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05-11-2012, 08:17 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
The regular season is only the baseline if you want to use it. It's surely not my baseline, and I guarantee you it's not the players' or management's baseline. The baseline should be the previous level of playoff success.
Forget it...over your head. A baseline is not a 5 year average.


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05-11-2012, 08:20 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Yeah, that still makes no sense. This is not a rebuild. Hunter was brought in for one reason, and one reason only: to get the Caps over the playoff hump and win a Cup. He wasn't brought in to start over. His baseline is Boudreau's peak. If that's harsh, then so be it. I'm sure he took the job well aware of those expectations.

And the situation into which each was hired is not comparable at all. One was brought into the worst team in the league, as an interim coach. He managed to get the team over the playoff hump. The other was brought into a team that'd made four straight playoff appearances. He's now trying to get that team over the next hump.

I can't believe how soft our fanbase is getting.
That's a riot....you mean when McPhee called up Ted and said it's time to fire Bruce, he said he was doing it because he expected Hunter to win a Cup this year?

Fantasy born of fandom if you ask me...

Nobody wants to win more than me, but damn, talk about unrealstic if you think those was team expectations when they fired Bruce. The goal was "get in and who knows what can happen after that".

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05-11-2012, 08:21 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
what?

i'd say that its pretty clear why hunter was hired. its the entire professional commitment/mental toughness part of the game.

i can quivle with many of the tactical moves and roster use that hunter has brought, but it looks a lot to me like the team is a changed group.

we all expected a dale hunter style team when he came in. we were then disappointed. they were not aggressive and dirty. well...we looking at the wrong dale values. determination and commitment was what we should have been looking at.

its there
That doesn't mean the expectation was to win the Cup this year, with a coach on a 6 month deal. That screams desperate to turn it around and just make the playoffs.

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05-11-2012, 09:20 PM
  #122
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Devils fan here, rooting for you guys to kick the rangers ass, they have ads in the paper up here advertising tickets for the next round, I've hated the rangers since I was 10 years old and went to my first devils rangers game in 1986. Kick their ass and here's to a great devils caps series.

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05-11-2012, 09:30 PM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Yeah, that still makes no sense. This is not a rebuild. Hunter was brought in for one reason, and one reason only: to get the Caps over the playoff hump and win a Cup. He wasn't brought in to start over. His baseline is Boudreau's peak. If that's harsh, then so be it. I'm sure he took the job well aware of those expectations.

And the situation into which each was hired is not comparable at all. One was brought into the worst team in the league, as an interim coach. He managed to get the team over the playoff hump. The other was brought into a team that'd made four straight playoff appearances. He's now trying to get that team over the next hump.

I can't believe how soft our fanbase is getting.
So you think he has to do it in his first year or it's a failure? Boudreau never got this "same" group back to his peak with two more chances. Why would Hunter have to do better than Boudreau's best with a group that was performing worse? You're the one who's not making sense.

That said, Hunter didn't improve the team in the same regular season as Boudreau. That is valid for comparison.

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05-11-2012, 10:01 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
That doesn't mean the expectation was to win the Cup this year, with a coach on a 6 month deal. That screams desperate to turn it around and just make the playoffs.
you are totally missing the point. the team is a fairly mature team in its growth arc. they were expected to rival for first in the conference and challenge for the championship again. this team was never going to meet expectations my just making the playoffs and planning for growth the next season.

they are playing for now. in fact the 6 months commitment from the coach screams that and not patience. right? hunter is there to win now. not two years from now. if the plan was to reset the team and hope for a cup run sometime down the road, they would have hired a coach that would have been expected to be there down the road.

desperate to turn it around, yes. just to make the playoffs and call it a day, not close.
a if this team shows no improvement here, long time members of the team and management face being moved or fired. the coach has already payed that price. to continue with this basic group, they need to take a step forward bad regular season or not.

do you think that because ov had his worst season of his career that the team's expectations of him tomorrow night are less than in the past or greater? i'd say greater

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05-12-2012, 12:47 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
So you think he has to do it in his first year or it's a failure? Boudreau never got this "same" group back to his peak with two more chances. Why would Hunter have to do better than Boudreau's best with a group that was performing worse? You're the one who's not making sense.

That said, Hunter didn't improve the team in the same regular season as Boudreau. That is valid for comparison.
No, I think the team has to show progress towards it in the first year. If they don't get past the first round, it's not progress. It's not improvement. It would be a failure for Hunter's first year. Hunter was brought in to improve on Boudreau, and do it this year.

The bottom line is Boudreau was fired and Hunter was hired to improve the postseason results.

I'm quite frankly mystified as to why people can't see this.

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