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The Official Jordan Staal Thread, Part III

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05-13-2012, 11:28 AM
  #276
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Originally Posted by 66-29-33 View Post
Hell no, not taking no chance on Suter going to UFA and Pens get rid of Staal for nothing. You want Suter? get rid of Martin, then sign Suter to a deal, trade Staal+Niskanen for a stud dman also. Then trade Orpik for Stewart. 2 stud dmen, 1 long term winger buddy for Crosby.
OBVIOUSLY we would not take the chance on him going to free agency thats why I said IF they would let us work out a deal with him beforehand. Is it so difficult to figure out lol.

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05-13-2012, 11:31 AM
  #277
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OBVIOUSLY we would not take the chance on him going to free agency thats why I said IF they would let us work out a deal with him beforehand. Is it so difficult to figure out lol.
Yes. I'm hung over, my reading comprehention (sp) fails at the moment.

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05-13-2012, 12:31 PM
  #278
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So Staal is a good second pairing defenseman? This is a terrible analogy. Staal and Sharp's values are pretty comparable IMO.
I agree the analogy was a little off but I think billybud was saying that Sharp is too valuable to the Hawks right now, given their strengths and weaknesses, and that they're not trading him to anyone most likely, including us. He is as valuable and rare a commodity to them as Neal is to us, and he's a more versatile player than Neal.


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Originally Posted by SprootsMasterFlex View Post
Josh Yohe's article is finally out:

http://triblive.com/sports/penguins/...-summer-center
Interesting but probably culled mostly from internet sources.

The teams are pretty obvious choices for a news story, particularly Carolina and Toronto. Edmonton I think would love to have him but both Eberle and Hall can play both C and W, so they don't necessarily have a lack of people who can play in those two spots. What all of their studs lack is a physical presence. They're all pure skill guys, very little sandpaper in their top 6 and D.

So I could see it, potentially. Also trading him out of conference always preferable to trading him in conference. Especially considering Carolina was in the re-alignment plan for our mini-conference I believe (along with Washington). The problem with EDM is they have zero to offer us to make us a better defensive team and I believe there's no way Shero makes a big trade and doesn't get a nice D asset back who he can insert in the lineup immediately.

For that reason Toronto makes a lot of sense although I doubt we'd take Kadri. He doesn't seem like a Shero player and after our collapse (which had nothing to do with scoring) he doesn't fit. Kulemin is a better fit (two way, versatile in addition to being skilled) and is less likely to cause salary problems down the road than a pure goal-scorer, should he bust out here.

In general I don't see Shero trading for anyone that is going to command even $6M in the near future. Which probably means, you're looking at a top 10 pick plus a high quality two-way forward or a high quality but young D. Unless he can include Martin in the deal and that opens up all kinds of possibilities. I wouldn't mind sending him and Martin to Carolina for a Top 10 pick, Sutter and Tim Gleason, potentially. Not that Gleason is all world or anything but he'd be more of an asset than Martin and he can be physical / block a lot of shots when asked.


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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
If we're trading Staal, I think it's because of money, which is one of the reasons I can't see us trading him, and then replacing him with a more expensive player.
I think it's equal parts money and realizing we're still somewhat of an unbalanced team and that it WILL become a big money issue eventually and better to trade him now (when he's got a year left at a very reasonable rate) and get maximum value for him, vs. trading him at the last second when we'll get less.

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05-13-2012, 12:56 PM
  #279
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Also the Minnesota option isn't much better than EDM (Setoguchi is a subpar centerpiece for a Jordan Staal deal - we can do a lot better). Something like 1st rounder, Seto, Falk for Staal would (down the road) become one of the most hated trades this organization has made, IMO. That's assuming we didn't flip the pick / combine it with our own for a great young D.

I could see another team not mentioned being in teh running: PHX.

Staal and Martin for Hanzal, 2012 1st, Klesla maybe. Something like that. Morris... but he's getting older. Anyway PHX has many parts that could work. Staal for Vermette + 2012 1st, and maybe a 2013 pick also. Lots of ways you can cut it.

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05-13-2012, 01:09 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Also the Minnesota option isn't much better than EDM (Setoguchi is a subpar centerpiece for a Jordan Staal deal - we can do a lot better). Something like 1st rounder, Seto, Falk for Staal would (down the road) become one of the most hated trades this organization has made, IMO. That's assuming we didn't flip the pick / combine it with our own for a great young D.

I could see another team not mentioned being in teh running: PHX.

Staal and Martin for Hanzal, 2012 1st, Klesla maybe. Something like that. Morris... but he's getting older. Anyway PHX has many parts that could work. Staal for Vermette + 2012 1st, and maybe a 2013 pick also. Lots of ways you can cut it.
Ekman-Larsson please They do seem like a team that could use a guy like Staal.

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05-13-2012, 01:09 PM
  #281
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Not to condone Yohe as a legit beat writer. But Clutterbuck+Seto+7th overall for Staal+Martin is probably the best deal I've heard so far.

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05-13-2012, 01:16 PM
  #282
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Not to condone Yohe as a legit beat writer. But Clutterbuck+Seto+7th overall for Staal+Martin is probably the best deal I've heard so far.
This! I'd do that deal.Clutterbuck is a MONSTER! and can score 20 goals a season, no? Seto becomes Crosby's guy, Clutterbuck becomes our monster for the 3rd line with Cooke, and perhaps trade for Ott?

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05-13-2012, 01:17 PM
  #283
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Ekman-Larsson please They do seem like a team that could use a guy like Staal.
Get Phoenix GM drunk, and we could make a deal.

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05-13-2012, 01:31 PM
  #284
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Get Phoenix GM drunk, and we could make a deal.
I'm on it.

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05-13-2012, 01:39 PM
  #285
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If we're going for a deal with Phoenix, I'd love to see Bødker coming back.

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05-13-2012, 01:46 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by 66-29-33 View Post
This! I'd do that deal.Clutterbuck is a MONSTER! and can score 20 goals a season, no? Seto becomes Crosby's guy, Clutterbuck becomes our monster for the 3rd line with Cooke, and perhaps trade for Ott?
It would be rough to give up Staal and have the best player coming back be Setoguchi...but at the same time getting rid of Martin and getting a high pick...this could work. I'd just be curious as to where Clutterbuck goes. I'm not sure he has the skill set to be a top line winger...second line maybe...

Kunitz-Crosby-Setoguchi
Clutterbuck-Malkin-Neal
Cooke-Dupuis-Kennedy
Tangradi-Vitale-Adams

? Close?

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05-13-2012, 02:21 PM
  #287
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Clutterbuck could be a third wheel with Sid/Geno. At the very least, he's a guy who fits the mold of "hard to play against" to a T.

Setoguchi is perfect for us. He's a more skilled player than Neal. Better skater, craftier with the puck and has a wrister nearly equal to Neal's. RHS playing his offwing for our top PP unit and with Sid? Yes please.

7th overall may not help us next year. But could very well be an impact player here in the not so distant future. Unless we're doing a one for one swap, I'd want a top ten pick in return to keep the salary coming back low but still getting value for Staal.

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05-13-2012, 02:22 PM
  #288
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The more I look at this, unless Shero and company take Staals wishes into consideration, Carolina is the last place I'm sending him. Pens can get better value out of those other teams.

Pens do need a D-man who can be a stellar physical stay at home type so...if you're gonna package Martin in with him, you better be getting back the pieces you need and not just settle.

Martin is worth more than just a throw in.

I'd love to see a Staal, Martin, Strait, 3rd for Clutterbuck, Falk, 7th, overall & 3rd deal.

One stop shop, and give Jeffrey the 3C spot.

Pens flip their 1st, with the 7th overall with a D-prospect(Harrington?) to Edmonton for the #1 overall.

Ends up being.

Staal, Martin, Strait, Harrington, our 1st, 7th overall(Minny's), our 3rd

For

1st overall(Yakapov), Clutterbuck, Falk, 3rd(Minny's)


I think I got the values correct, but I'm sure some won't like it.

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05-13-2012, 02:38 PM
  #289
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Don't really know enough about Falk. If he's the answer for bringing in a big bodied shutdown presence, then great.

But I still say any deal with Minny should involve Seto+7th overall. If you can pry Clutterbuck away and they have interest in Martin, all the better.

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05-13-2012, 02:52 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
I agree the analogy was a little off but I think billybud was saying that Sharp is too valuable to the Hawks right now, given their strengths and weaknesses, and that they're not trading him to anyone most likely, including us. He is as valuable and rare a commodity to them as Neal is to us, and he's a more versatile player than Neal.
Exactly my point.


Quote:
I could see another team not mentioned being in teh running: PHX.

Staal and Martin for Hanzal, 2012 1st, Klesla maybe. Something like that.

That's a smart sensible deal. Only problem I see with it is how late Phoenix's draft pick might be.


Quote:
Not to condone Yohe as a legit beat writer. But Clutterbuck+Seto+7th overall for Staal+Martin is probably the best deal I've heard so far.
In a vacuum that makes some sense, but the big problem is Clutterbuck's concussion situation. He's had something like 5 in the last 15 months (most of which he played through). That doesn't really bode well for him as a long-term acquisition.

Plus, he goes a bit beyond tough to play against. Other than charging and hitting people quite late, Clutterbuck doesn't generally break any rules, but he does a lot of questionable things that I would be afraid would result in blowback. Things like clobber someone for no reason in a December game Minnesota's winning 5-1. Or hurt a guy with 6 seconds left in an already decided game. The exact sort of pointless, non-suspendable stuff Cooke did that pissed the Islanders' off so much they pearl harbored Max Talbot and half of Wilkes-Barre the season before last.

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05-13-2012, 02:53 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by SprootsMasterFlex View Post
Josh Yohe's article is finally out:

http://triblive.com/sports/penguins/...-summer-center
Well, with that kind of journalistic insight, you can understand why this article was three weeks in the making . . .

A special LOL . . . Minnesota has the 7th overall. Toronto has the 5th overall. Yet, when Yohe discusses 'pieces', he mentions only Carolina's 8th overall . . .

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05-13-2012, 02:54 PM
  #292
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Yeah, I would much rather keep Staal. The first overall is interesting, only because you control him cheaply for the better part of the next decade, but he is a roll of the dice, albeit a fairly strong one.
Who here doesn't want to keep Staal? That's not really the question, is it?

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05-13-2012, 02:57 PM
  #293
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I really do not think Edmonton will trade the 1st Overall Pick unless its to slide down into the top 5. Tambellini made sure that Murray would make the roster this year so he can get a look at his development against stronger competition.

If the Pens get the 5th Overall from Toronto, we'd have a shot @ drafting Grigorenko. That would be sick!!! The sky is the limit and he'd probably be closer to making the lineup than going back to junior.
As I've noted before, one thing people forget when talking about Edmonton, it's that they've got a few young players who all are going to be RFA's over the next 24 months. If Edmonton trades for Staal and gives him 6.5M or so, then what does it mean when Eberle, Hall, and Nugent-Hopkins deals are up?

This is why I can't see a team like St Louis, despite them being a nice fit in terms of pieces, also making a play for Staal.

And, it's why I don't see Anaheim making a play either, when you consider (a) that windows to extend Perry and Getzlaf open on July 1 and (b) that team is on a strict budget.

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05-13-2012, 03:00 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
I agree the analogy was a little off but I think billybud was saying that Sharp is too valuable to the Hawks right now, given their strengths and weaknesses, and that they're not trading him to anyone most likely, including us. He is as valuable and rare a commodity to them as Neal is to us, and he's a more versatile player than Neal.




Interesting but probably culled mostly from internet sources.

The teams are pretty obvious choices for a news story, particularly Carolina and Toronto. Edmonton I think would love to have him but both Eberle and Hall can play both C and W, so they don't necessarily have a lack of people who can play in those two spots. What all of their studs lack is a physical presence. They're all pure skill guys, very little sandpaper in their top 6 and D.

So I could see it, potentially. Also trading him out of conference always preferable to trading him in conference. Especially considering Carolina was in the re-alignment plan for our mini-conference I believe (along with Washington). The problem with EDM is they have zero to offer us to make us a better defensive team and I believe there's no way Shero makes a big trade and doesn't get a nice D asset back who he can insert in the lineup immediately.

For that reason Toronto makes a lot of sense although I doubt we'd take Kadri. He doesn't seem like a Shero player and after our collapse (which had nothing to do with scoring) he doesn't fit. Kulemin is a better fit (two way, versatile in addition to being skilled) and is less likely to cause salary problems down the road than a pure goal-scorer, should he bust out here.

In general I don't see Shero trading for anyone that is going to command even $6M in the near future. Which probably means, you're looking at a top 10 pick plus a high quality two-way forward or a high quality but young D. Unless he can include Martin in the deal and that opens up all kinds of possibilities. I wouldn't mind sending him and Martin to Carolina for a Top 10 pick, Sutter and Tim Gleason, potentially. Not that Gleason is all world or anything but he'd be more of an asset than Martin and he can be physical / block a lot of shots when asked.




I think it's equal parts money and realizing we're still somewhat of an unbalanced team and that it WILL become a big money issue eventually and better to trade him now (when he's got a year left at a very reasonable rate) and get maximum value for him, vs. trading him at the last second when we'll get less.
I think this is why Shero will be listening once the season ends. That said, he will NOT sell Staal cheap. He won't even move him in a 'fair' deal. Push comes to shove, Shero will hold his nose, give Staal the 6M or so it will take to resign him, and then deal with the cap fallout later. But, I don't think push will come to shove.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Also the Minnesota option isn't much better than EDM (Setoguchi is a subpar centerpiece for a Jordan Staal deal - we can do a lot better). Something like 1st rounder, Seto, Falk for Staal would (down the road) become one of the most hated trades this organization has made, IMO. That's assuming we didn't flip the pick / combine it with our own for a great young D.

I could see another team not mentioned being in teh running: PHX.

Staal and Martin for Hanzal, 2012 1st, Klesla maybe. Something like that. Morris... but he's getting older. Anyway PHX has many parts that could work. Staal for Vermette + 2012 1st, and maybe a 2013 pick also. Lots of ways you can cut it.
Don't see Phoenix, especially with their having a new owner but still a relatively unsettled financial situation. Don't see Edmonton either for reasons stated in a prior post. That said, here's what I think will turn out to be the front runners list and what Shero will be gunning for:

-- Minnesota: Staal and Martin for Seto, Coyle, 7th overall

-- Carolina: Staal and Martin for Sutter, d-man (prefer Faulk, maybe McBain), 8th overall

-- Toronto: Figure Staal for Kulemin, the 5th overall, and a premium (maybe Schenn, maybe something like Bozak and Ashton . . . depends upon what Shero likes)

-- Buffalo: I'm not going to speculate on pieces here, but I'll bet you the Sabres will be front and center when the bidding begins. One piece would be the 12th overall

-- Calgary: See Buffalo. I could see Glencross and the 14th overall being necessities, but I don't know where you go from there. That said, you've got to think they'll be very, very interested

I definitely see those five teams coming to the dance and each one coming to the plate with a Richards caliber offer after some back and forth. Other teams that could step up: Columbus and Winnipeg seem to be decent shots. Dallas could play, depending upon where their budget is for next year. I wouldn't be shocked to see St Louis and San Jose kick the proverbial tires, although I don't see either being in the final bidding. I do wonder if Montreal might be interested, although I doubt it (if only because Staal isn't French Canadian).

Anyway, when all is said and done, I'm still figuring on 4-6 teams that really step up with that Richards type of return. The question is who Shero can squeeze further and for how much. If that's all he gets, then I think Shero may keep Staal. BUT, if someone steps up with that premium, then I think the odds are better than not that Staal is moved. And, I think the odds are better than not that someone steps up with that Richards plus premium offer.


Last edited by KIRK: 05-13-2012 at 03:11 PM.
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05-13-2012, 03:32 PM
  #295
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The more I look at this, unless Shero and company take Staals wishes into consideration, Carolina is the last place I'm sending him. Pens can get better value out of those other teams.

Pens do need a D-man who can be a stellar physical stay at home type so...if you're gonna package Martin in with him, you better be getting back the pieces you need and not just settle.

Martin is worth more than just a throw in.

I'd love to see a Staal, Martin, Strait, 3rd for Clutterbuck, Falk, 7th, overall & 3rd deal.

One stop shop, and give Jeffrey the 3C spot.

Pens flip their 1st, with the 7th overall with a D-prospect(Harrington?) to Edmonton for the #1 overall.

Ends up being.

Staal, Martin, Strait, Harrington, our 1st, 7th overall(Minny's), our 3rd

For

1st overall(Yakapov), Clutterbuck, Falk, 3rd(Minny's)


I think I got the values correct, but I'm sure some won't like it.
There is no way Edmonton trades down that low, if they aren't going to take Yakupov at 1 they would only trade down a few spots so they could still get Murphy.

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05-13-2012, 03:37 PM
  #296
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There is no way Edmonton trades down that low, if they aren't going to take Yakupov at 1 they would only trade down a few spots so they could still get Murphy.
Don't know that I see #7, #21, and Harrington getting #1anyway.

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05-13-2012, 06:49 PM
  #297
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Don't know that I see #7, #21, and Harrington getting #1anyway.
Honestly, I would NOT do this deal..

You can have 3 very good prospects. Neither of them will ever be as good as Yakupov..

But at the end of the day, if you had a chance, give me eg. Reinhart/Trouba + Sissons + Harrington before Yakupov any day !!!

EDIT: Btw, anyone remember the offer from Sabres fan?

Pominville + Sekera + Enroth + 1st (Nashville's) for Staal + 2nd

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05-13-2012, 07:04 PM
  #298
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Honestly, I would NOT do this deal..

You can have 3 very good prospects. Neither of them will ever be as good as Yakupov..

But at the end of the day, if you had a chance, give me eg. Reinhart/Trouba + Sissons + Harrington before Yakupov any day !!!

EDIT: Btw, anyone remember the offer from Sabres fan?

Pominville + Sekera + Enroth + 1st (Nashville's) for Staal + 2nd
I would love Pominville and Enroth here I think.

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05-13-2012, 07:10 PM
  #299
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I would love Pominville and Enroth here I think.
I certainly wouldn't hate it. But I'd rather go after younger guys. Methinks Shero would keep Staal at 6 than acquire Pominville at 5.3 mil for 2 more years.

I see Shero's sole motive for moving Staal as the salary cap. He'd stick with the 3C model until the end of time if he could.

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05-13-2012, 07:14 PM
  #300
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I certainly wouldn't hate it. But I'd rather go after younger guys. Methinks Shero would keep Staal at 6 than acquire Pominville at 5.3 mil for 2 more years.

I see Shero's sole motive for moving Staal as the salary cap. He'd stick with the 3C model until the end of time if he could.
1. I don't know that I'd actually do that trade, I'm just saying that I like those guys.

2. I don't know that salary is Staal's sole motive. I think he'll walk in free agency if he plays 3C next year.

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