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The Official Jordan Staal Thread, Part III

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Old
05-14-2012, 04:34 PM
  #376
Eddy Punch Clock
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Originally Posted by Coach John McGuirk View Post
St. Louis' response:

Couldn't agree more McGuirk. I'm so relieved the Canucks lost out on the Bouwmeester sweepstakes. Definitely one of the top ten overpaid players in the league... if not top 5.

btw coach, nice work on your new Bob's Burgers gig. My three boys favourite show.

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05-14-2012, 04:44 PM
  #377
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Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
Nope. He's just an awful player. Much worse than his brother, who also sucks.
If you're right and Schenn fails miserably (time will tell) as an NHL'er after being touted so high by scouts and GM's then we Pens fans will have something to really laugh at Philadelphia's trade of their captain to get him.

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Old
05-14-2012, 05:03 PM
  #378
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Just tossed this out there on the trade forum:

Kulemin
Schenn
Bozak
1st

for

Staal
Martin
Choice of center prospects

Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis
Kulemin-Malkin-Neal
Cooke-Bozak-Kennedy
Tangradi-Vitale-Adams

Letang-Orpik
Niskanen-Michalek
Schenn-Engo

Then hopefully a TK+someone to STL for Stewart. He goes with Sid, Dupuis to the 3rd.

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Old
05-14-2012, 05:16 PM
  #379
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Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
Just tossed this out there on the trade forum:

Kulemin
Schenn
Bozak
1st

for

Staal
Martin
Choice of center prospects

Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis
Kulemin-Malkin-Neal
Cooke-Bozak-Kennedy
Tangradi-Vitale-Adams

Letang-Orpik
Niskanen-Michalek
Schenn-Engo

Then hopefully a TK+someone to STL for Stewart. He goes with Sid, Dupuis to the 3rd.
I hate this proposal & we are a worse team because of it. We are trying to get better by trading for a bad teams spare parts? Staal scored as many goals as Kulemin & Bozak combined last year in less games.

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Old
05-14-2012, 05:19 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
I hate this proposal & we are a worse team because of it. We are trying to get better by trading for a bad teams spare parts? Staal scored as many goals as Kulemin & Bozak combined last year in less games.
Schenn and Bozak appeal to me as much as being sexually violated in prison.

I would be okay with:

Staal
for
Lupul
Kulemin
5th Overall

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Old
05-14-2012, 05:22 PM
  #381
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Turn Staal into Kessel or move on to another team. They have almost nothing else I'm interested in.

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Old
05-14-2012, 05:22 PM
  #382
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Originally Posted by Hedberg1 View Post
How about a 3 way trade with Calgary and STL?

We get: Giordano, Oshie, CGY 1st (Give up Staal, Martin, Kennedy)

CGY gets: Staal, Stewart, Martin, Bort/Strait (Gives up Gio, Bouwmeester, 1st)

STL gets: Bouwmeester, Kennedy (Gives up Oshie and Stewart)


I thought of this in literally 3 minutes so sorry if it's bad.
I think this is a fairly good effort in pinpointing the teams needs and who they may be willing to give up, but in this threeway constellation it just makes the Blues the garbage disposal for the unwated players in a Pens/Flames deal. Blues could either use Oshie+Stewart to get Staal+Kennedy or Giordano+ for themselves, so there is really no reason they end up with the table scraps.

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Old
05-14-2012, 05:24 PM
  #383
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Just wanted to add, while Toronto is the most-natural partner if you want to maximize return, I do NOT think return could be maximized while asking them to take on Martin. In the past, when Burke's added salary in the form of another team's "problem" dump, he's insisted the trade be lopsided in his favor to do so.

Burke's in a bind, where, from a PR standpoint, he can't NOT make a huge push for Jordan Staal (if Staal were to be moved), but that doesn't mean he's inclined to take your long-term problem with. I would think him more likely to add an extra draft pick or prospect than to accept Paul Martin's contract, unless he has some specific belief in Martin's abilities from his work with USA hockey.

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Old
05-14-2012, 05:24 PM
  #384
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Originally Posted by Dr Frasier Crane View Post
Turn Staal into Kessel or move on to another team. They have almost nothing else I'm interested in.
Agreed. Just because the Leafs need a center doesn't mean we are good trading partners.

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Old
05-14-2012, 05:26 PM
  #385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideline View Post
Schenn and Bozak appeal to me as much as being sexually violated in prison.

I would be okay with:

Staal
for
Lupul
Kulemin
5th Overall
Yeah....that's too much.

I kinda feel like no joke I'd rather have Schenn than Lupul. Sounds crazy but I honestly have a really good feeling about him turning himself into a nice Orpik like player in the next couple years. Yeah, he's never going to be the defensive cornerstone he was projected as probably, but I really think he has a nice set of tools to turn himself around as he continues to play defense.

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Old
05-14-2012, 05:27 PM
  #386
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Really? I wouldn't really want Kessel.

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Old
05-14-2012, 05:31 PM
  #387
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Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
Yeah....that's too much.

I kinda feel like no joke I'd rather have Schenn than Lupul. Sounds crazy but I honestly have a really good feeling about him turning himself into a nice Orpik like player in the next couple years. Yeah, he's never going to be the defensive cornerstone he was projected as probably, but I really think he has a nice set of tools to turn himself around as he continues to play defense.
From what I understand he only played the right side. And assuming Z isn't going anywhere, we're paying a struggling D-man 3.6 mil for bottom pairing minutes?

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Old
05-14-2012, 05:35 PM
  #388
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Originally Posted by froods View Post
Yea, umm, I live here. Leopold, Sulzer, and Weber are nothing to brag about. Regher is good, but is 32. I wouldn't touch that Ehrhoff contract. I actually like Sekera, but I think Lindy destroys young players. I find it funny he was the best player for Slovakia in 2010, but is horribly inconsistent for you. None of those prospects are even close to the guys we have coming up. It would just make our house even more crowded.

I wouldn't touch Derek Roy. So selfish and inconsistent. Vanek makes wayyy too much. I do like Pominville. Adam is good, but I am not in love with him. We would HAVE TO get Marcus Foligno in return...and I already know your response on that.

In other words, I agree 100% with Vitale post. Buffalo would be an awful trade partner.
ehrhoffs contract is probably extremely atractive seeing how weve already paid a third of it and he has an extremely low cap hit for what he brings. Sekera is not even close to horribly inconsistent for us, he was acctually our MOST consistent and best defenseman this year with all the injuries. Your statement on roy is fair, pominville and adam would be close in value to staal though no? I would offer pommers+regher+adam for staal+1st

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Old
05-14-2012, 05:40 PM
  #389
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Originally Posted by kratzbuerste View Post
Really? I wouldn't really want Kessel.
Sure you do like all the other proposals of Devin Setoguchi or Brandon Sutter or the ever popular Nik Kulemin. Pens are going to play run and gun from now on out because it was so successful against Philadelphia this spring. It isn't like Ray Shero is going to need to replace the defensive work Jordan Staal has given this team or anything.


Last edited by gordie: 05-14-2012 at 05:46 PM.
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Old
05-14-2012, 05:52 PM
  #390
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Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood View Post
ehrhoffs contract is probably extremely atractive seeing how weve already paid a third of it and he has an extremely low cap hit for what he brings. Sekera is not even close to horribly inconsistent for us, he was acctually our MOST consistent and best defenseman this year with all the injuries. Your statement on roy is fair, pominville and adam would be close in value to staal though no? I would offer pommers+regher+adam for staal+1st
Im a Rochester Amerks season ticket holder and a pens fan. I dont want Adam anywhere near the penguins organization. He is beyond horrible! However pomminvile and regher i wouldn't mind.

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Old
05-14-2012, 05:57 PM
  #391
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
From what I understand he only played the right side. And assuming Z isn't going anywhere, we're paying a struggling D-man 3.6 mil for bottom pairing minutes?
Yeah that would be an issue. His game is pretty much tailor-made for playing on his strong side. Schenn would be playing bottom pairing minutes to start the season almost no matter what anyway, and the hope would be that he would develop. Acquiring Schenn would be a longer-term investment as opposed to one that would pay dividends right away. The guy is 22 and it takes defensemen a while to develop. Let him learn, and reap benefits later on. Of course, I'd only want him as more of a pseudo "throw-in" (with Kulemin and the 5th being the other pieces). But I feel pretty good about him developing solidly in the future as he continues to mature.

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Old
05-14-2012, 06:19 PM
  #392
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Staal's motive is role more than money IMO, so I agree. Shero has to worry about the salary cap. He drafted Staal to play behind Sid and Geno. IMO, he believed it could work longterm and if he can resign Staal to a reasonable number, he'll continue to endorse it.

I just think we're better off moving on if we can get the type of return we want, unless we can get him to a deal close to Neal's longterm and seeing how it works out.
Shero drafted Staal to be an offensive force. I remember when we drafted him, almost instantaneously they were talking about who was playing wing. It just worked out that having a young pivot playing on the 3rd line was the ideal scenario at the time.

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Old
05-14-2012, 06:19 PM
  #393
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Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
Yeah that would be an issue. His game is pretty much tailor-made for playing on his strong side. Schenn would be playing bottom pairing minutes to start the season almost no matter what anyway, and the hope would be that he would develop. Acquiring Schenn would be a longer-term investment as opposed to one that would pay dividends right away. The guy is 22 and it takes defensemen a while to develop. Let him learn, and reap benefits later on. Of course, I'd only want him as more of a pseudo "throw-in" (with Kulemin and the 5th being the other pieces). But I feel pretty good about him developing solidly in the future as he continues to mature.
If he could develop into a solid #4, he's exactly the type of D-man we could use to complement our PMD. But at 3.6 mil, I don't see Shero willing to take the chance. Even if we move Staal and Martin, we're going to be close to the cap when we resign Tanger.

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Old
05-14-2012, 06:41 PM
  #394
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I come in peace and respectfully say that Pens fans need to realize that J.Staal must want a chance to be a #1 either this year or when he becomes a UFA in 2013.

I think his value would be close to Mike Richards nothing more. TBH that is a huge compliment to Staal.

So look for a Simmonds + B.Schenn + 2nd type deal realistically.

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Old
05-14-2012, 06:42 PM
  #395
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Schenn certainly brings more of the nastiness we need and he's younger, but I think Gunnarsson is the better fit for our team because he's a lefty and he's more mobile. I think he fits our system better.

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Old
05-14-2012, 06:44 PM
  #396
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
Shero drafted Staal to be an offensive force. I remember when we drafted him, almost instantaneously they were talking about who was playing wing. It just worked out that having a young pivot playing on the 3rd line was the ideal scenario at the time.
I don't remember us having the depth on wing to push Staal down to 3C so easily unless we thought that was where we get full value out his game.

Our crop of wingers at the start of the 07-08 season were Malone, Sykora, Colby, and Christensen. I just think the 3C model was in the back of Shero's mind from the beginning.

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Old
05-14-2012, 06:55 PM
  #397
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
I don't remember us having the depth on wing to push Staal down to 3C so easily unless we thought that was where we get full value out his game.

Our crop of wingers at the start of the 07-08 season were Malone, Sykora, Colby, and Christensen. I just think the 3C model was in the back of Shero's mind from the beginning.
Staal started off as a winger. I think the 3C thing was all Therrien. I'm not a believer that Shero dictates things like that. He has said many times that he lets his coaches coach. Staal sort of dictated where he was going to go, and with his game and being as unbelievable defensively at such a young age...that 3rd line center spot was calling his name. If he wasn't so good defensively, he'd probably still be on the wing.

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05-14-2012, 06:57 PM
  #398
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Originally Posted by gordie View Post
Sure you do like all the other proposals of Devin Setoguchi or Brandon Sutter or the ever popular Nik Kulemin. Pens are going to play run and gun from now on out because it was so successful against Philadelphia this spring. It isn't like Ray Shero is going to need to replace the defensive work Jordan Staal has given this team or anything.
What?

I don't think Kessel would be a good fit. As a person and a player. I don't see him here. In the right packages I could be fine with most of the others, IF and ONLY IF Staal wants out. First preference is keeping Staal.

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05-14-2012, 07:15 PM
  #399
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Eberle AND 1st overall is too much, there's no doubt..

But I would not be surprised at all if Shero gets either Eberle or Hall for Staal.

As I've been saying for ever, posters/fans have no clue how GMs really value players.

Just imagine how GMs have been talking about some trade and how they worked on it for MONTHS.. Everytime I hear that, I'm just whoa, what took it so long...

I don't know what we can get for Staal.. we don't know what Shero can get, nor how the other GMs value Staal.

We have some proposal and we just add/change picks just like that. After all of those years I've been a fan of the game, I learned that even a 3rd round pick has a good value, but on the hand I'm stunned how some players have a big value.

Quincey was traded for 1st rounder, Gaustad ditto.. If Martin is traded, I think it would be at least 1st rounder as well..

I'm so thankful that no fan are making trades!

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05-14-2012, 07:25 PM
  #400
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What?

I don't think Kessel would be a good fit. As a person and a player. I don't see him here. In the right packages I could be fine with most of the others, IF and ONLY IF Staal wants out. First preference is keeping Staal.
2nded... I can't stand him.

The more I think about it that more I want to keep him too. Unless its stud player for stud player... not parts. Names like Ryan and Evander Kane. The only way I can see parts working out are if its the #1 pick or an elite prospect like Tarasenko. Not that many teams could put those kind of offers up.

IMO TO and the Canes don't have what it takes.

Just to bring another team into the mix. What about Nash or revisiting Staal for JJ?

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