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The Official Jordan Staal Thread, Part III

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05-10-2012, 02:26 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
if Shero decides to take a gamble I really hope its not for Schenn
Essentially, its a swap of Schenn for Martin. I mean really, how much can it hurt.

Worse comes to worse, Shero just flips him to STL for Stewart since he's the type of D they're looking for.

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05-10-2012, 02:46 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by SprootsMasterFlex View Post
Essentially, its a swap of Schenn for Martin. I mean really, how much can it hurt.

Worse comes to worse, Shero just flips him to STL for Stewart since he's the type of D they're looking for.
If worse has come to worst I don't think he'll be so easily flipped.

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05-10-2012, 02:48 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
If worse has come to worst I don't think he'll be so easily flipped.
Thus far, Martin has been more of a liability (monetarily & on the ice) than Scheen has. At least Scheen is only 22 years old and is bound to improve. His best years are stll ahead of him.

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05-10-2012, 02:52 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by TravisUlrich View Post
Pretty much any C in the NHL can play well on the wing. Team Canada doesn't pick the 4 best C's, the 4 best RW's, and the 4 best LW's. They'll probably have like 8 natural centermen and then 4 natural wingers only because they're all better than the 9th best Canadian centerman.

Staal would be great on the wing. The only thing I wonder is if I'd rather have him be the 2nd line center with Malkin on his wing. And moving Staal up to the Top 6 will finally allow us to develop Dustin Jeffrey.
The issue isn't whether he "can or can't" play wing. The main issue is that "He doesn't WANT to play wing". You can't force a guy to play a position he doesn't want to play. If you try, do you honestly think he will be as productive? It may work from time to time on spot duty, or as part of additional shifts, but not day in day out every shift.

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05-10-2012, 02:57 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by SprootsMasterFlex View Post
Thus far, Martin has been more of a liability (monetarily & on the ice) than Scheen has. At least Scheen is only 22 years old and is bound to improve. His best years are stll ahead of him.
fair enough he'd be better than Martin. I guess I just figure if we are moving Martin we'd be expecting Despres to take a D spot.

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05-10-2012, 03:02 PM
  #81
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I've said this in other thread, I know it won't happen but I would love.

Staal + Fleury. for Brown+Quick.

I'd take the bump up in goal tending for the bump down in forward.

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05-10-2012, 03:08 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by vikingGoalie View Post
I've said this in other thread, I know it won't happen but I would love.

Staal + Fleury. for Brown+Quick.

I'd take the bump up in goal tending for the bump down in forward.
I would do that in a second !!!

It's unbelievable that Quick is also signed for the next season with cap-hit 1.8M! But he will be signed for the similar contract as Rinne has signed..7M per IMO.

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05-10-2012, 03:16 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
fair enough he'd be better than Martin. I guess I just figure if we are moving Martin we'd be expecting Despres to take a D spot.
Actually, Schenn would be able to grow with the young crop of Ds (includng Letang snce he's still relatively young). He can add a dimension we're missing and if pared with the right D partner and under the right guidance, he can become a valuable asset to our D. If he wasn't a rsk, Burke would never think of movng him but the risk of aquring Martn from Burke's POV is far greater than Schenn.

Other than Phaneuf & Liles (and Komisarek, if he's not moved this summer), they really don't have much experience on D. Maybe Martin can become a valuable asset for them under Randy Carlyle.

The thought of adding a Schenn would be nice to see when we play the Flyers... the 2 brothers head to head

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05-10-2012, 03:20 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by vikingGoalie View Post
I've said this in other thread, I know it won't happen but I would love.

Staal + Fleury. for Brown+Quick.

I'd take the bump up in goal tending for the bump down in forward.
There's not even a slight chance they'd take that. They would probably laugh for a while before hanging up.

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05-10-2012, 03:22 PM
  #85
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There's not even a slight chance they'd take that. They would probably laugh for a while before hanging up.
Exactly, especially after their plyoff performances thus far.

Perhaps they would've consider it before the playoffs commenced.

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05-10-2012, 03:24 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by SprootsMasterFlex View Post

The thought of adding a Schenn would be nice to see when we play the Flyers... the 2 brothers head to head
that would be a fun addition to the rivalry. And it would help to make up for the loss of Staal drinking games by adding a new brother drinking game that is a factor that I hope Shero is looking in to

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05-10-2012, 03:27 PM
  #87
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Regarding the deals that have been proposed involving the Canes, does anybody have any insight on Ryan Murphy and do you think Shero would inquire about him in a possible deal with the Canes (instead of Faulk or McBain)?

Although he's small, he is supposed to be very quick and apparently his Hockey IQ is off-charts.

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05-10-2012, 03:46 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by SprootsMasterFlex View Post
Essentially, its a swap of Schenn for Martin. I mean really, how much can it hurt.

Worse comes to worse, Shero just flips him to STL for Stewart since he's the type of D they're looking for.
Blues wont take Martin. 5M cap for a budget team? no wai. Martin is about 1M overpaid tbh, but that's free agency for ya.

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05-10-2012, 04:10 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by 66-29-33 View Post
Blues wont take Martin. 5M cap for a budget team? no wai. Martin is about 1M overpaid tbh, but that's free agency for ya.
I agree... perhaps even 1.5-2M overpaid.

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05-10-2012, 04:12 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by SprootsMasterFlex View Post
Regarding the deals that have been proposed involving the Canes, does anybody have any insight on Ryan Murphy and do you think Shero would inquire about him in a possible deal with the Canes (instead of Faulk or McBain)?

Although he's small, he is supposed to be very quick and apparently his Hockey IQ is off-charts.
We have Martin, Morrow, Letang, Despres and possibly still Niskanen. I really don't see a need for more PMD types, especially ones that lack size. Martin would have to be in the deal for us to bring in another D, imo.

I don't think Carolina is as great a trade partner as others. I don't think Sutter and the 8th gets it done. We'd be getting worse short-term because Sutter is a downgrade and possibly worse long-term if the pick doesn't pan out.

Carolina just doesn't have that expendable top 2 line winger to trade straight across for Staal. Nor do they have the big, young, all around D-Man that I'd want straight across for Staal. Working with the assets they do have, I'd make them pay through the nose or find another deal. I'd want Sutter, 8th overall and one of Faulk, Murphy, McBain for Staal and Martin. I'd take a PMD in that deal because we'd be getting rid of Martin and we could ship off Niskanen's rights somewhere as well if we acquire an upgrade that makes him expendable.

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05-10-2012, 04:52 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
The answer is with Malkin and you let them work it out like Malkin and Talbot worked it out. It's not natural to have two guys working as hybrid C/W. But, sometimes it's workable-- even more than that-- when you've got two guys who have a natural chemistry together. That's always been Malkin and Staal. I prefer more of Malkin at C (and think the combo works better that way), but I think the guy with the perfect answer about the whole 'how to use Staal' question was Staal himself, when he said he didn't know, ask the coaches. The real answer is that Bylsma doesn't have a ******* clue. If he did, Staal would've been tried with Malkin and Neal-- for even one shift-- after Sid came back.
The hybrid would work for the reason you said...the two have played together enough that they know how to hand off responsibility. I've been trying to hammer that point home for 2 years now. People say, "Well Geno is at his best offensively at center." Ok...I agree. I'll turn that on it's ear though...Staal is at his best when down deep defensively, and having the play in front of him, which is what would happen when he would undoubtedly be the 3rd man trailing the play.

I think it could work, and guess what, also like I said, we're going to HAVE to make it work if we want to keep all 3 centers, which is what makes this team better, IMO. One of Sid or Geno goes down, it's great having Staal to fill right in behind.

People also like to beat their chests and do the "I told you so" act when it comes to Geno producing this year. He didn't produce because he was a center...he produced because he had two highly competent linemates. When was the last time he had 2 competent linemates? Oh yeah...he had a 100 point season then too. What happened when he played the hybrid C/W setup with Talbot? He set playoff scoring records and won a Conn Smyth.

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05-10-2012, 05:47 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by 66-29-33 View Post
Blues wont take Martin. 5M cap for a budget team? no wai. Martin is about 1M overpaid tbh, but that's free agency for ya.
Actually, I think I read somewhere that the Blues were close to be sold. If they were it'd make deals like that more plausible.

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05-10-2012, 06:11 PM
  #93
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I started this off season completely against the idea of trading Staal. And I still think that in most cases we're a much better team with him than w/out.

However, if he is really looking at something around 7m per, I'm really intrigued by the potential of trading him to TOR (assuming they're interested). I'd only do it if I felt it made the team better in both the short and long term, but - say TOR gives up the 5th (potentially Forsberg who's close to being ready to play now), Kulemnin (who I think is very similar to Kunitz) and either another pick or prospect...that leaves us with a potential top 6 winger in forsberg w/ great talent signed at an entry level contract, a solid 2nd w in kulemnin and whatever else we can pry from tor on top of that. We also would then would save around 2-2.5m to shore up some other holes.

I'll have to be honest and say I don't think I'd be disappointed with that.

Granted, this only works if the player drafted is really ready to step in this year.

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05-10-2012, 07:30 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Actually, I think I read somewhere that the Blues were close to be sold. If they were it'd make deals like that more plausible.
http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/79...ght-new-owners

They were already sold.

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05-10-2012, 07:53 PM
  #95
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The hybrid would work for the reason you said...the two have played together enough that they know how to hand off responsibility. I've been trying to hammer that point home for 2 years now. People say, "Well Geno is at his best offensively at center." Ok...I agree. I'll turn that on it's ear though...Staal is at his best when down deep defensively, and having the play in front of him, which is what would happen when he would undoubtedly be the 3rd man trailing the play.

I think it could work, and guess what, also like I said, we're going to HAVE to make it work if we want to keep all 3 centers, which is what makes this team better, IMO. One of Sid or Geno goes down, it's great having Staal to fill right in behind.

People also like to beat their chests and do the "I told you so" act when it comes to Geno producing this year. He didn't produce because he was a center...he produced because he had two highly competent linemates. When was the last time he had 2 competent linemates? Oh yeah...he had a 100 point season then too. What happened when he played the hybrid C/W setup with Talbot? He set playoff scoring records and won a Conn Smyth.
That sad thing with Geno and Staal is that we'll never know.

We could have known. We should have known. For all of the experimenting Bylsma did after Sid came back, the one thing he never had the vision to try, even for one shift, was Staal with Geno and Neal and then Sid back in his comfort zone with Kunitz and Dupuis.

I get the whole 'don't mess with what was working'. BUT, the reason Malkin and Neal worked better with Kunitz than with Sullivan wasn't because Kunitz was the idea complement. It's because Sullivan was a bad complement.

What Malkin and Neal ideally need in a linemate is the two way hockey Kunitz gave you, yeah, but more specifically Malkin is best served by a linemate who will muck and tie things up on the boards so Geno can swoop in, who has an instinctive understanding for when to support Geno and when to give him space, and who will go to the net. That's Staal. That's why they've worked well together before.

I always kind of figured that you'd get almost a Malone-Malkin-Sykora dynamic with Geno, Staal, and Neal (where Neal could be your physical Sykora and where Geno would have those sustained offensive zone shifts).

Alas, what could have been . . . whether or not it would have worked, it should have been tried (along with a lot of other things).

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05-10-2012, 07:55 PM
  #96
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Actually, I think I read somewhere that the Blues were close to be sold. If they were it'd make deals like that more plausible.
More plausible, but they still have this issue: If they give Staal north of 6.5M per year, what happens when their other half dozen plus RFA's come up over the next 24 months? Giving Staal that kind of money sets a bar that could make things more difficult.

That said, IF St Louis didn't see it as a problem, then that's a team with the pieces to make a deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sjb141 View Post
I started this off season completely against the idea of trading Staal. And I still think that in most cases we're a much better team with him than w/out.

However, if he is really looking at something around 7m per, I'm really intrigued by the potential of trading him to TOR (assuming they're interested). I'd only do it if I felt it made the team better in both the short and long term, but - say TOR gives up the 5th (potentially Forsberg who's close to being ready to play now), Kulemnin (who I think is very similar to Kunitz) and either another pick or prospect...that leaves us with a potential top 6 winger in forsberg w/ great talent signed at an entry level contract, a solid 2nd w in kulemnin and whatever else we can pry from tor on top of that. We also would then would save around 2-2.5m to shore up some other holes.

I'll have to be honest and say I don't think I'd be disappointed with that.

Granted, this only works if the player drafted is really ready to step in this year.
Two things . . .

1. If Shero says I'm listening, then saying Burke would be interested is an understatement.

2. Kulemin isn't like Kunitz. Kulemin is like Malone minus the edge. He's 6'1, 230 pounds. He doesn't have that nasty streak or hit a ton, but, when he hits you, you feel it. How he plays the game would be the perfect-- and I mean perfect in a way that Malone was perfect for Geno-- complement for Geno and Neal.

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05-10-2012, 08:10 PM
  #97
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Kulemin is like Neal or Staal. He doesn't seek out hits, but he's a load to handle.

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05-10-2012, 08:15 PM
  #98
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Kulemin is like Neal or Staal. He doesn't seek out hits, but he's a load to handle.
that's what she said

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05-10-2012, 08:20 PM
  #99
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You don't think he may give a little hometown discount to stay on a team he loves?

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05-10-2012, 08:25 PM
  #100
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that's what she said
Yeah, but JTG said it more succinctly.

BTW, 'she' . . .

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