HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Bettman "Original 12"

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-11-2012, 08:47 AM
  #76
Buck Aki Berg
My pockets hurt
 
Buck Aki Berg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ottawa, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,863
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CGG View Post
I think it's been explained a few times already that the Blues weren't one of the first 12 teams in the league. The St Louis Eagles were though, so you have that.

The Original Six actually means something, despite them not actually being the first 6 teams, since they all have a long history and are all still around today. When one of the 1967 expansion teams re-named itself 3 times, then moved to Cleveland, then merged with another one of the 1967 expansion teams (Minnesota) before it itself up and moved to Dallas, there's not exactly the continuity required to give that group a name like "Original Twelve". Especially when 2 more teams got added 3 years later, and there's only remnants of 11 of those 12 teams left today.
So Original 6 "means something" despite being most of these teams not being original, while original 12 is an insult, despite being subject to that same incorrectness. Have you explored the possibility that you're just looking for something to complain about?.

Buck Aki Berg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2012, 08:50 AM
  #77
Fripp
Registered User
 
Fripp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Portland, OR
Country: United States
Posts: 1,854
vCash: 500
It's accurate. Someone is just looking for reasons to hate.

Fripp is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2012, 08:52 AM
  #78
MoreOrr
B4
 
MoreOrr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mexico
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,949
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fripp View Post
It's accurate. Someone is just looking for reasons to hate.
Don't have any problem with him playing with the expression, likely for marketing reasons; but the problem is that it isn't accurate.

MoreOrr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2012, 08:52 AM
  #79
Trebek
Mod Supervisor
 
Trebek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 24,612
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fripp View Post
It's accurate.
I don't know that it's accurate, but it's almost as accurate as "Original Six", with the difference being similar to the "Big 12" having ten teams and the "Big 10" having twelve.

Trebek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2012, 09:09 AM
  #80
Mayor Bee
\/me_____you\/
 
Mayor Bee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 15,576
vCash: 500
I'm glad the NFL doesn't have any issues about when a team entered the league, and how much more important they are based on that. No one refers to the "Original Three" of the Chicago Bears (originally Decatur Staleys), Green Bay Packers, and Arizona Cardinals (originally Chicago Cardinals).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
It's not a particularly unclever term - if someone said it around here, it'd probably get a chuckle and people would move on.
I did it a couple years ago and got infracted for it, so...

Mayor Bee is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2012, 09:14 AM
  #81
LyricalLyricist
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,999
vCash: 500
This is a big deal because?

LyricalLyricist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2012, 09:29 AM
  #82
Section337
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 4,310
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
This is a big deal because?
Because there are two days without hockey?

Section337 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2012, 09:31 AM
  #83
SirPaste
Use The Schwartz!
 
SirPaste's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: STL
Posts: 8,615
vCash: 349
Who cares, the only people who care about the Original Six are fans of those teams anyways

SirPaste is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2012, 09:33 AM
  #84
CitizenSnips
TheFightingMongooses
 
CitizenSnips's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: St. Louis
Country: United States
Posts: 409
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Yeah, Original Six should be renamed the Original Two...
this

if someone is offended by the term "original 12" because they hold on to some sort of nostalgia then they really dont know much about hockey history

CitizenSnips is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2012, 09:34 AM
  #85
Fugu
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Fugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pac NW
Country: United States
Posts: 31,018
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
There are two problems with Bettman's new term, Original 12...

1) As stated before, there are only 10 "surviving" teams when counting the first modern-day big expansion.

2) The "Original Six" term doesn't refer to the teams that originally existed when the NHL started; it refers to the teams that existed at the time of the first modern-day expansion in 1967. Therefore, to say an "Original 12" or Original 10, it would be like referring to the teams that existed at the time of the second modern-day expansion in 1970, which ultimately would be a fairly trivial distinction.

When the ONLY reason one would use "Original ____" is as a referent to the first Original [Six], you know something has standing and the rest is just mimicry.

As you noted, the Original Six term comes from the first expansion to demarcate the six teams that had comprised the league for 40 years prior to any expansion.

It is that simple. It doesn't mean anything more than that. Try to twist things around so we have Original _____ as some other historically significant demarcation is just that... referring back to the original. It's unnecessary, but furthermore it's just not a way that's generally understood as a way of describing NHL history.

Fugu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2012, 09:36 AM
  #86
Fugu
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Fugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pac NW
Country: United States
Posts: 31,018
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitizenSnips View Post
this

if someone is offended by the term "original 12" because they hold on to some sort of nostalgia then they really dont know much about hockey history

And who said it has anything to do with nostalgia? It's a commonly used term that every hockey fan has heard of. If you wish to impart other significance to it, let's make sure it's noted that this is YOUR perception.

I'm well aware of hockey history and using a term like Original Twelve is ridiculous from the commissioner of the league--- in MY opinion.

Fugu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2012, 09:44 AM
  #87
TheMoreYouKnow
Registered User
 
TheMoreYouKnow's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Eire
Posts: 9,120
vCash: 500
Well, the reality is that the Original Six is an identifiable term even American sports journalists who don't follow hockey much know. Gretzky and Stanley Cup might be the only other two NHL trademarks of similar renown.

Original 12 is just a silly gimmick as long as it's merely used by Bettman to please fans in St.Louis. If they start pimping it and doing merchandise etc. it's a bit different because it could hurt the league's brand by weakening one of the stronger marketable assets the league has.

TheMoreYouKnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2012, 09:51 AM
  #88
Butch 19
King me
 
Butch 19's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Geographical Oddity
Country: United States
Posts: 9,572
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
This is a big deal because?
be..cause of the internets?

Butch 19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2012, 09:54 AM
  #89
Fugu
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Fugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pac NW
Country: United States
Posts: 31,018
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirPaste View Post
Who cares, the only people who care about the Original Six are fans of those teams anyways

And Bettman since he couldn't resist extending the boundaries.

Fugu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2012, 09:55 AM
  #90
Section337
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 4,310
vCash: 500
Does anyone know the actual quote or context? I could not find it with a quick google.

Section337 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2012, 09:58 AM
  #91
ThatGuy22
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,165
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhXcoyotes View Post
Are all of our teams a part of the "Origional 30"?
Not sure if you could count Winniepeg as a part of the original 30, as they weren't there when the NHL first got 30 teams.

ThatGuy22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2012, 10:05 AM
  #92
krudmonk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sannozay
Posts: 5,509
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow View Post
it's a bit different because it could hurt the league's brand by weakening one of the stronger marketable assets the league has.
Yes, we should certainly play up the fact that this league went decades with only 6 teams. That sounds bigtime and legitimate. It was like the Major Indoor Soccer League of its day.


Oh wait, they have 7 teams.

krudmonk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2012, 10:09 AM
  #93
Mansfield
possession obsession
 
Mansfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,200
vCash: 500
More mock outrage? Oh joy.

Mansfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2012, 10:18 AM
  #94
Lshap
Moderator
 
Lshap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,490
vCash: 500
St-Louis is an official member of the Secondary Six.

Lshap is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2012, 10:19 AM
  #95
Minor Boarding
Registered User
 
Minor Boarding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Corleone
Posts: 1,393
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by loLZokAY View Post
http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/79...ght-new-owners



The frickin wut? Bettman, words can't even be equated right now. If you ever were to try and push an original 12... my god...
It's about as accurate as the good ole' original 6... which maxes it inaccurate.

Mainly I have no problems with it - I would tho rather hear the first expansion group as the class of the 67's...better ring to it.

Minor Boarding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2012, 10:26 AM
  #96
JWells16
Registered User
 
JWells16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Raleigh, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 10,770
vCash: 500
I came in expecting to be offended, as if he was getting rid of the term "Original 6"


My outrage for Bettman on this issue is... well, none.

JWells16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2012, 11:44 AM
  #97
edog37
Registered User
 
edog37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: A Midwestern Town
Country: United States
Posts: 2,956
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breakingbad28 View Post
What are the 'Original 12' teams?
BlackHawks
Leafs
Bruins
Rangers
Red Wings
Canadian

Blues
Penguins
Flyers
Kings
Sabres
Canucks


Im guessing those are the next 6?
no to Sabres/Canucks. It would have been CA Golden Seals & North Stars. I find it really funny that people object to this. Obviously all the entitlement O6 fan boys have their panties in a wad, but why shouldn't Second Six be given their due? The ones that remain are going to be hitting 50 in a few years & have certainly earned their due.....

edog37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2012, 11:45 AM
  #98
DonCherrysSuit
Powerplay Pass Party
 
DonCherrysSuit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Buffalo
Country: United States
Posts: 918
vCash: 500
"Original Six" isn't any more accurate. The only truly accurate term you can use for a team these days is "Current Thirty"

And even though I'm a Rangers ("Original Six") fan, given how drastically different the game is these days, I really couldn't care less about early-1900's NHL history.

DonCherrysSuit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2012, 11:47 AM
  #99
TOML
Registered User
 
TOML's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Walnut Grove
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,370
vCash: 500
Really important title.

Just ask the California Golden Seals and the Minnesota North Stars.


TOML

TOML is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2012, 11:49 AM
  #100
edog37
Registered User
 
edog37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: A Midwestern Town
Country: United States
Posts: 2,956
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
And who said it has anything to do with nostalgia? It's a commonly used term that every hockey fan has heard of. If you wish to impart other significance to it, let's make sure it's noted that this is YOUR perception.

I'm well aware of hockey history and using a term like Original Twelve is ridiculous from the commissioner of the league--- in MY opinion.
as we are seeing in college football, the time be changing. Most of the bowls & conferences aren't called what they were traditionally called. Bettman simply is giving a traditional & historical market its due. MOD


Last edited by Fugu: 05-11-2012 at 09:37 PM. Reason: there is no vitriol, and you introduced that term
edog37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:25 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.